"Grumble, I don't like it!" - tOfficial VTfoozball thread

[VTfoozball]

"So, that's your bottom line...if we disagree with your so-called "expert" analysis, we're actually attacking Tech recruits?? Ridiculous."

Sure don't remember calling my analysis "expert" but I think I'm able to tell if a player is bigger or faster or a better athlete than another. What if I wanted to compare film of Michael Vick versus Sean Glennon? Can I have an opinion on that one? Can I please?

 

[hokiegrad]

"Obviously the coaches like North and Newsome enough to offer both, yes. That doesn't mean they have North higher on their board!"

I never said he was higher on their board I said I liked his film better.

You said, and I quote: "If he was recruited with WR in mind I doubt it. North vs Newsome...hmm let's see...same speed but one is about 5 inches taller and 30-35 pounds heavier...hmmm". Please explain how I misinterpreted this.

Someone said Newsome was a 1st choice just because he committed first which is absurd.

No, someone said Newsome was a 1st choice and you ASSUMED they meant it was because he committed first. I didn't read their statement that way at all.

When you and others bring up the unseen and the unknown about VT targets that have NOT committed to VT then you're attacking them (the uncommitted players). It is either one or the other, there is no in-between and you can't have it both ways.

Are you kidding? I try to explain a simple concept to you and I'm suddenly attacking guys we're recruiting. That is a quite a leap, sir.

You and others can't disagree with my assessment based on measurables, film, AND a VT offer and still NOT be ragging on a potential VT player.

I never agreed or disagreed with your conclusion that North is a probably a better get. I disagreed with your logic and your attitude.

 

[HokieGhost]

"So, that's your bottom line...if we disagree with your so-called "expert" analysis, we're actually attacking Tech recruits?? Ridiculous."

Sure don't remember calling my analysis "expert" but I think I'm able to tell if a player is bigger or faster or a better athlete than another. What if I wanted to compare film of Michael Vick versus Sean Glennon? Can I have an opinion on that one? Can I please?

Hmmm...I thought we were discussing the highlight videos of sophomores and juniors in high school, not well-established college/professional athletes with tons of film showing both their good and bad traits.

Additionally, you seem totally incapable of understanding the meaning of the word "highlight" as it applies to the videos of high school football players. You do understand those videos show nothing but good plays, right? You do understand why the Tech coaching staff actually attends the games of their recruiting targets, don't you? You do understand why the Tech coaching staff questions a lot of people about their recruiting targets, don't you?

 

[sparko]

I think he does understand that TAE, based on his comment below:

Absolutely correct. In addition to physical ability and football IQ, Tech's coaches look for, in no particular order:

* Good motor, or lack thereof...do they take plays off? Are they lazy or driven?

* Character...good, bad, or in-between?

* Academics...can they get past Tech's entry requirements? Will they be a problem in the classroom?

* Good references from people and coaches known by the Tech staff

* Are they a legacy recruit? Do they have good bloodlines?

Here I went ahead and looked this up for you. You mentioned this right in the middle of the Newsome vs. North debate in this thread. Your point was? The only possible inference I can get out of it in that context is that you were dumping on North.

What he isn't explaining is how he knows all of this about North?? Whether he has watched full games (or even most of the season) on North/Newsome?? How, other than height/weight/speed/100-highlight-reel-plays ... he determines that North is SOOOO much better. Reality, foozball, is that the difference between the two, from an athletic standpoint, if fairly marginal. North is 4-5 inches taller << big whoop ... You can't deny a very talented legacy a spot on our roster to hold out hope (a glimmer of hope) for North, who may not even pan out. The coaches are hedging their bets on these players as it is ... minimizing risk as much as possible. Casting a wider net and accepting commits earlier in the process (again-first-come) helps to minimize the risk of falling short as a whole in this recruiting cycle.

Does the early offer have something to do with him being a legacy?? Maybe a little but Alston Smith didn't get an offer this early, did he? Fact is that Newsome has skills and personally, I hope he ends up at WR.

 

[Sleepy T]

Hope I don't ruffle any feathers on this one. But I had to chime in. I think it is funny I keep hearing the phrase "watching film" or "looking at film" like this is Bill Belichick sitting in the Big Room breaking down a game, play by play, until 4 in the morning...after the Patriots WIN. Everyone please quit already. Few people here (probably more like none) are "Football" subject matter experts, and I doubt anyone can see the slight differences between a 4 star athlete and a 3/3.5 star athlete. Rewinding the DVR a couple times or looking at a couple YOUtube videos of recruits does not classify as "Watching film"....

This is not necessarily a knock on foozball..everyone in general.

 

[NickVT10]

Hope I don't ruffle any feathers on this one. But I had to chime in. I think it is funny I keep hearing the phrase "watching film" or "looking at film" like this is Bill Belichick sitting in the Big Room breaking down a game, play by play, until 4 in the morning...after the Patriots WIN. Everyone please quit already. Few people here (probably more like none) are "Football" subject matter experts, and I doubt anyone can see the slight differences between a 4 star athlete and a 3/3.5 star athlete. Rewinding the DVR a couple times or looking at a couple YOUtube videos of recruits does not classify as "Watching film"....

This is not necessarily a knock on foozball..everyone in general.

I agree. That is why we shouldn't be sitting here saying one guy is better than another or the coaches should have gone after this guy harder because they are the ones doing that, we are not.

 

[Lumbee09]

I would just like to make a general post. I've stayed out of this argument because I find it completely ridiculous and it has gotten completely out of hand. I would just like to say that personal attacks are unnecessary. Yes, people are arguing, and some people are getting unnecessarily angry, but there is no need to directly insult other posters. We are all Hokies here, and we have different views on our team and players. Please respect one another. That is all.

 

[HokieGhost]

Rewinding the DVR a couple times or looking at a couple YOUtube videos of recruits does not classify as "Watching film"....

That's been my point all along.

Video highlights are just that...a handfull of cherry-picked plays designed to make the recruit look as good as possible.

 

[bigesse16]

You're right I'm not a math major. I'm actually an engineer who butt fucked all of his math classes and nearly got a perfect on the math SAT and math GRE. I also am a teaching assistant for a statistics class. Should I keep going?

And here it is. List of pro bowl starters since 2000.

Marvin Harrison - 6'0
Jimmy Smith - 6'2
Cris Carter - 6'3
Isaac Bruce - 6'0
Eric Moulds - 6'2
Randy Moss - 6'4
Terrel Owens - 6'3
Rod Smith - 6'0
Tim Brown - 6'0
David Boston - 6'2
Jerry Rice - 6'2
Joe Horn - 6'1
Chad Ochocinco- 6'1
Torry Holt - 6'0
Anquan Boldin - 6'1
Muhsin Muhammad - 6'2
Santana Moss - 5'10
Steve Smith - 5'9
Andre Johnson - 6'3
Donald Driver - 6'0
Reggie Wayne -6'0
Braylon Edwards - 6'3
Larry Fitzgerald - 6'3
Brandon Marshall - 6'4
DeSean Jackson - 5'10
Roddy White - 6'0
Calvin Johnson - 6'5
Wes Welker - 5'9
Mike Wallace - 6'0

At first glance I see 4 players under 6 feet tall and 16 that are over 6 feet tall. Once again, nice try. I'm not saying that players in today's era have to be taller, I am merely proving that statistics can be used to "prove" just about anything. Ironically, I feel like that's what a math major would tell you. I suggest your response be this

Not to argue semantics (although I'm going to anyway because I can), it depends on what your definition of tall is. Tall differs on position IMO. To me, tall for a WR is 6'2" and above. If you go by that list, there are 13 WRs who are 6' and below and 16 WRs who are 6'1" and above. We're also arguing about a high school junior who could still be growing.

 

[VTfoozball]

"You said, and I quote: "If he was recruited with WR in mind I doubt it. North vs Newsome...hmm let's see...same speed but one is about 5 inches taller and 30-35 pounds heavier...hmmm". Please explain how I misinterpreted this."

That was MY reasoning although I don't see how the coaches would see it differently. They have already offered North a scholarship so whatever "baggage" he must be carrying according to you guys must not be enough of a problem to worry about

"No, someone said Newsome was a 1st choice and you ASSUMED they meant it was because he committed first. I didn't read their statement that way at all."

What did he mean then? There is a lot of assuming going on around here including me. But most go one way because of a positive attitude and some go another because they are realistic

 

[VTfoozball]

That's been my point all along.

Video highlights are just that...a handfull of cherry-picked plays designed to make the recruit look as good as possible.

Anyone can see that North has a higher upside than almost any WR VT has offered. At the very least I can take that from the highlights. Right now I guarantee you there is no problem the coaches think they can't fix with North if he even has one in their eyes.

 

[Camfantasy]

How much more potential does North have over Joel Caleb because of his speed, Foozball?

 

[jgHokie]

"You said, and I quote: "If he was recruited with WR in mind I doubt it. North vs Newsome...hmm let's see...same speed but one is about 5 inches taller and 30-35 pounds heavier...hmmm". Please explain how I misinterpreted this."

That was MY reasoning although I don't see how the coaches would see it differently. They have already offered North a scholarship so whatever "baggage" he must be carrying according to you guys must not be enough of a problem to worry about

"No, someone said Newsome was a 1st choice and you ASSUMED they meant it was because he committed first. I didn't read their statement that way at all."

What did he mean then? There is a lot of assuming going on around here including me. But most go one way because of a positive attitude and some go another because they are realistic

WOW!!! you really DO think highly of yourself...lol...you really need to take a step back and think about everything you've said, and are going to say, before you speak.

 

[HokieGhost]

At the very least I can take that from the highlights.

You still don't understand the meaning of the word "highlights" in terms of recruit videos, do you?

At least when you see a commercial for a pharmaceutical drug on tv they tell you what side-effects you might experience.

 

[VTfoozball]

WOW!!! you really DO think highly of yourself...lol...you really need to take a step back and think about everything you've said, and are going to say, before you speak.

You're right. That difference in height and weight doesn't matter. If Logan Thomas was 6 feet 210 he would still be the same player he is and would still be thought of highly by the draft gurus

 

[VTfoozball]

How much more potential does North have over Joel Caleb because of his speed, Foozball?

I can't quantify that but I like Caleb despite him not being a 4.4 or not even a 4.5.

 

[Camfantasy]

How much better will Korren Kirven be than Luther Maddy because of his size?

 

[Hokie200proof]

I wish I had my own thread...








Too bad I'm a reasonable person with a decent grasp of logic.

(sigh)

 

[bigesse16]

"You said, and I quote: "If he was recruited with WR in mind I doubt it. North vs Newsome...hmm let's see...same speed but one is about 5 inches taller and 30-35 pounds heavier...hmmm". Please explain how I misinterpreted this."

That was MY reasoning although I don't see how the coaches would see it differently. They have already offered North a scholarship so whatever "baggage" he must be carrying according to you guys must not be enough of a problem to worry about

"No, someone said Newsome was a 1st choice and you ASSUMED they meant it was because he committed first. I didn't read their statement that way at all."

What did he mean then? There is a lot of assuming going on around here including me. But most go one way because of a positive attitude and some go another because they are realistic

I just don't see any team recruiting like this, especially this early in the stage unless they feel they have a great shot with a prospect. I think that's where you and I are differing and I know your conversation above is not directed toward me and I am jumping in. But, North was not coming here and if there was a chance, it was a small one. That could change down the road and he may end up a Hokie, but right now, he's not coming here. So, if that's the case, you would take Newsome. Newsome is part of a cast of 1st choices. The coaches cast a wide net of guys they would like to be a part of the team, which is why offers go out in waves. North may be higher in that pool, but the coaches are not going to take one guy over the other.

Look at RB last year. It was a position of need, but we ended up taking possibly 5 guys. Harris, Mangus, Edmunds, and Coleman were part of that first wave of guys we extended offers too. Harris may have been ranked higher than Mangus, who knows. But the coaches weren't going to deny Mangus' a spot because it was not a sure bet that Harris was coming here. They also had not exhausted resources in recruiting Harris and they weren't saving him a spot so it was a first come first serve basis. Luckily, we were able to take all of them, but very few times is a recruit going to have a spot saved. It's dangerous for teams to do that, especially VT.

 

[HokieGhost]

How much better will Korren Kirven be than Luther Maddy because of his size?

Yeah...Kirven is 2 inches taller than Maddy....should make a major difference.


:charlie: