Extra innings rule question

[Rock Strongo]

so they toss a guy on 2nd now, i.e scoring position, to start the game. he had to get there, somehow.

does that base runner get credited with a double, and the pitcher, a hit allowed? i assume from a metrics standpoint, someone has to get credit for something to get a guy on 2nd.

 

[Rock Strongo]

MLB's new extra-innings rule is here and -- surprise! -- it's glorious

 

[Mofo]

No, the next guy in the order just goes to 2nd. (A pinch runner can be substituted though.) He gets there by magic. There's no fielder's choice, no hit credited, nor BB. The pitcher of record also does not get tagged with any stat for letting him on, and he is not charged with an earned run if that guy scores.

Worse than 3-on-3 hockey in NHL OT.

 

[Rock Strongo]

No, the next guy in the order just goes to 2nd. (A pinch runner can be substituted though.) He gets there by magic. There's no fielder's choice, no hit credited, nor BB. The pitcher of record also does not get tagged with any stat for letting him on, and he is not charged with an earned run if that guy scores.

Worse than 3-on-3 hockey in NHL OT.

Thats kinda fucked up. no personal statistical consequences?

does the batter get an RBI if the guy on 2nd is driven in?

 

[Mofo]

Thats kinda fucked up. no personal statistical consequences?

No, it's counted as a team error for allowing the guy onto 2nd, though no individual player is tagged with a fielding error.

does the batter get an RBI if the guy on 2nd is driven in?

The batter doesn't get an RBI for the runner starting on 2nd, as it is unearned. I'm not sure if the runner records a run scored.

 

[Rock Strongo]

No, it's counted as a team error for allowing the guy onto 2nd, though no individual player is tagged with a fielding error.

The batter doesn't get an RBI for the runner starting on 2nd, as it is unearned. I'm not sure if the runner records a run scored.

interesting, lot of oddity in there.

 

[Mofo]

interesting, lot of oddity in there.

As I said, worse than the NHL's regular season OT rules. Unfortunately, I think it's here to stay. Other than the universal DH, nothing seems more sure.

Part of me is hoping some more teams go to the same filthy Atlanta strip club where the Marlins caught the COVID, so that this abortion of a season ends sooner.

 

[soxfan1468927]

No, it's counted as a team error for allowing the guy onto 2nd, though no individual player is tagged with a fielding error.

The batter doesn't get an RBI for the runner starting on 2nd, as it is unearned. I'm not sure if the runner records a run scored.

If baseball-reference is correct, the batter does get an RBI and the runner gets a run scored.

If the run is unearned that doesn't necessarily mean the batter doesn't get an RBI anyway.

 

[Rock Strongo]

If baseball-reference is correct, the batter does get an RBI and the runner gets a run scored.

If the run is unearned that doesn't necessarily mean the batter doesn't get an RBI anyway.

this

 

[Mofo]

If baseball-reference is correct, the batter does get an RBI and the runner gets a run scored.

If the run is unearned that doesn't necessarily mean the batter doesn't get an RBI anyway.

That's even more stupid then.

 

[soxfan1468927]

That's even more stupid then.

I can see not giving the runner a run, but I don't see how it's any different for the guy who drives them in. He's taking advantage of situation he was put in. Just like every other RBI.

The runner, however, didn't earn 2nd base

 

[Mofo]

I can see not giving the runner a run, but I don't see how it's any different for the guy who drives them in. He's taking advantage of situation he was put in. Just like every other RBI.

The runner, however, didn't earn 2nd base

It means every game where the extra innings rule comes into play, that an extra RBI is awarded to someone for a runner that never got on base. It's an unfair way to end games, as well. The argument to be made is that it is at least equitable, in that both teams get an equal number of free base runners in extra innings.

It's going to be exceedingly rare for any game to go more than 2 extra innings with so many guys in scoring position and no outs. But that was always the point, to end games more quickly.

 

[soxfan1468927]

It means every game where the extra innings rule comes into play, that an extra RBI is awarded to someone for a runner that never got on base. It's an unfair way to end games, as well. The argument to be made is that it is at least equitable, in that both teams get an equal number of free base runners in extra innings.

It's going to be exceedingly rare for any game to go more than 2 extra innings with so many guys in scoring position and no outs. But that was always the point, to end games more quickly.

Yes the circumstance gives extra reward to the individual, but that's the nature of RBI anyway.

RBI: Batter controls his current plate appearances, does not control if there is a runner on base
Runs: Runner controls getting on base, does not control if he is driven in

(This of course is generally speaking but you get what I'm saying)

In the extra inning rule, the aspect that is removed (getting on base) is not in the batter's control anyway so the aspect that remains (him driving in the run) should count towards the statistic. For the runner, it's the opposite. The aspect that he has no control over (being driven in) is the only part that does remain.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

o they toss a guy on 2nd now, i.e scoring position, to start the game.

*The inning

he had to get there, somehow.

Most likely, he'll walk.

does that base runner get credited with a double, and the pitcher, a hit allowed?

No.

i assume from a metrics standpoint, someone has to get credit for something to get a guy on 2nd

Nope.

 

[SlinkyRedfoot]

interesting, lot of oddity in there.

Welcome to 2020.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Welcome to 2020.

game/inning/on phone lol

 

[Mofo]

Yes the circumstance gives extra reward to the individual, but that's the nature of RBI anyway.

RBI: Batter controls his current plate appearances, does not control if there is a runner on base
Runs: Runner controls getting on base, does not control if he is driven in

(This of course is generally speaking but you get what I'm saying)

In the extra inning rule, the aspect that is removed (getting on base) is not in the batter's control anyway so the aspect that remains (him driving in the run) should count towards the statistic. For the runner, it's the opposite. The aspect that he has not control over (being driven in) is the only part that does remain.

It's that very element that means it's stats abuse. Very rarely will any extra innings games go beyond the 10th or 11th. Because the rules now dictate that both teams get a free RISP to start the inning, a guy on one or both teams will have a greatly increased chance of an RBI. Matt Olson aside, most of these games will feature that runner coming home via sac fly. It's a hell of a lot easier to score an RBI off a sac fly than manufacture the run honestly.

My problem with it isn't the design- if they want games to end early, then do so. Or else let games end in a tie.

 

[soxfan1468927]

It's that very element that means it's stats abuse. Very rarely will any extra innings games go beyond the 10th or 11th. Because the rules now dictate that both teams get a free RISP to start the inning, a guy on one or both teams will have a greatly increased chance of an RBI. Matt Olson aside, most of these games will feature that runner coming home via sac fly. It's a hell of a lot easier to score an RBI off a sac fly than manufacture the run honestly.

My problem with it isn't the design- if they want games to end early, then do so. Or else let games end in a tie.

But from an individual statistics perspective, that increased chance of an RBI is outside the hitters control just as much as it is in extra innings.

It's easier for the team to score when the inning starts with a runner on 2nd, of course, but it's no easier for the guy who has to drive him in. Like any RBI, he's a product of circumstance+execution. That doesn't change here.

 

[Mofo]

But from an individual statistics perspective, that increased chance of an RBI is outside the hitters control just as much as it is in extra innings.

How so? The guy in front of him is automatically given 2nd base. A batter has many more options for the batter, including easier ones, than if it was a regulation inning

It's easier for the team to score when the inning starts with a runner on 2nd, of course, but it's no easier for the guy who has to drive him in. Like any RBI, he's a product of circumstance+execution. That doesn't change here.

Again, a sac fly is a lot easier to accomplish than a base hit. Hell, if the manager moves the runner over to 3rd via SB, then all the batter has to do is put the ball in play. This is all possible with 0 outs, and three batters get a crack at an easy RBI.

I'm not arguing to be contrarian here. There's already enough abuse of statistics already in MLB, without adding another, IMO.

 

[soxfan1468927]

How so? The guy in front of him is automatically given 2nd base. A batter has many more options for the batter, including easier ones, than if it was a regulation inning


Again, a sac fly is a lot easier to accomplish than a base hit. Hell, if the manager moves the runner over to 3rd via SB, then all the batter has to do is put the ball in play. This is all possible with 0 outs, and three batters get a crack at an easy RBI.

I'm not arguing to be contrarian here. There's already enough abuse of statistics already in MLB, without adding another, IMO.

I have no clue what you were asking in the first sentence to be honest.

Yes it is easier to accomplish. If the batter comes up in the 8th inning with a runner on 3rd and less than two outs do they get a lesser RBI?

You're missing the point. Just because the circumstances are manufactured doesn't mean they are any different from the batter. Just like in innings 1-9, RBI are a product of circumstance.

We are now in a repetitive disagreement.