Excellent Season Review…

[bbwvfan]

Connect Bridgeport Blogs: A Little Know-Howe: A Unique Before and After Look at This WVU Football Season

I agree with everything he has written. He did not try to analyze why certain deficiencies occurred, but maybe that was not the purpose of the article.

 

[JIMKOON]

Connect Bridgeport Blogs: A Little Know-Howe: A Unique Before and After Look at This WVU Football Season

I agree with everything he has written. He did not try to analyze why certain deficiencies occurred, but maybe that was not the purpose of the article.

I agree alos because it mirrors a whole bunch of my position, doesn't drag out old statitics to try and build false hope. We need more tell it like it is people to draw Mountaineer nation back from the divided rhetoric!

 

[Anotherwvufan]

There is always the hope that next year will be better. The story of this year was 4 th quarter meltdowns. I even feel guilty that we cost oklahoma state a shot to play for the NC.

How did RR finish out the season?

If we could have just beat sPitt it would have been a good season.

 

[Slaton10]

Connect Bridgeport Blogs: A Little Know-Howe: A Unique Before and After Look at This WVU Football Season

I agree with everything he has written. He did not try to analyze why certain deficiencies occurred, but maybe that was not the purpose of the article.

I think its more than fair to say the program took a step backward..even in losses espescially down the strectch you look for things to build on going forward....I didn't see anything in the last 3 weeks that would speak to that....

I saw a team perhaps just going thru the motions...we can say there was a alot of inexperience, but young kids should be playing their guts out to set the tone for next season...and it just wasn't there...not sure I have seen that in a Wv team before?

 

[Anotherwvufan]

somewhere along the line, this team forgot how to win.

 

[JIMKOON]

We seem to have a wide base of people who have embraced losing, and that is exactly what we have been led to on a volunm of excuses. I said it on another post, fuck this program and the idiocy that the leaders have come to embrace. You don't want winning, you like your stat line improvement, not respect on the field. So have at it losers. Maybe move down to Huntington and endorse the Marshall program, they accepted losing as a virtue years ago, you should fit in nicely with your statistics!

 

[Slaton10]

We seem to have a wide base of people who have embraced losing, and that is exactly what we have been led to on a volunm of excuses. I said it on another post, fuck this program and the idiocy that the leaders have come to embrace. You don't want winning, you like your stat line improvement, not respect on the field. So have at it losers. Maybe move down to Huntington and endorse the Marshall program, they accepted losing as a virtue years ago, you should fit in nicely with your statistics!

I sense frustration!!...

I don't beleive anyone has embraced losing...everything is a process.I think everyone is trying to assess exactly where the program is..and how long it will take to turn around..no matter who is coach..there is no magic bullet that Wv hires a new HC and they go undefeated next year...they couldn't hire Saban and make that happe.....I can draw all kids of parallels...You think Butch Jones forgot how to coach..or Brent Beilima?...it took Steve Spurrier 4 plus years to turn South Carolina around...

Look at a team that is further down the road like TAMU..IMHO they had a worst season than Wv in many regards...they should have won the SEC...and they just gave their coach a 6 year extension!!..LOL!!

I have changed my assessment just a bit...I think Holgorson after dropping games to the two worst teams in the Big12 now moves his time table for success up to at least an 8 win season next year...you just can't drop games consecutively teams that have combined for 4 wins...that clearly speaks to whether he and his staff lost the team...and apparently they did.....

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Jim, most out here agree with your frustration. Nobody wants to lose, we all remember our heyday over the past few years and it really sucks. Most will be happier with Holgerson gone but reality dictates that next year will be his make or break year. We need to face the facts.

1. An 11 million buyout is big. No matter how bad ticket sales decline, it will never cost that much. Unless Holgerson decides to take way less, we are financially bound to him.

2. If we get rid of him, who do we get? Will he be better or worse? With a new coach, we can expect to lose much of our recruiting class. Is there a magic pill that can transform us overnight...There are few proven HC's that will want to come to us. We will be stuck again with either a MAC coach, or some hot coordinator who is looking for his first HC position.

3. Nothing has happened yet. When does Ollie speak? IF HCDS is to be fired, it will be very soon. I expect a statement of support from Ollie soon in support of his big investment in HCDS.

4. Who give us our best chance to win next year. If we hit the reset button now, we are really screwing ourselves. We are short on Senior leadership to start. Take away our next Freshman class and we are stuck with a small team dominated by Soph and Juniors. Any new coach will also be set up for the third year blues just like Holgerson resulting from small weak recruiting classes.

5. Gus Malzan is the exception not the rule. He took over a team that was loaded with 5 star talent and put it to work taking a no bowl team tot he SEC championship. He had also worked with the team previously as OC and knew who the players were. We do not have anywhere near that type of talent. We are not the only good team that has fallen this year, but don't expect coaches like Will Muscamp of Florida, Brent Bilema or Butch Jones to be fired after their terrible seasons.

6. Would you feel better if we got Doc Holliday from Marshall?

 

[JIMKOON]

Jim, most out here agree with your frustration. Nobody wants to lose, we all remember our heyday over the past few years and it really sucks. Most will be happier with Holgerson gone but reality dictates that next year will be his make or break year. We need to face the facts.

1. An 11 million buyout is big. No matter how bad ticket sales decline, it will never cost that much. Unless Holgerson decides to take way less, we are financially bound to him.

2. If we get rid of him, who do we get? Will he be better or worse? With a new coach, we can expect to lose much of our recruiting class. Is there a magic pill that can transform us overnight...There are few proven HC's that will want to come to us. We will be stuck again with either a MAC coach, or some hot coordinator who is looking for his first HC position.

3. Nothing has happened yet. When does Ollie speak? IF HCDS is to be fired, it will be very soon. I expect a statement of support from Ollie soon in support of his big investment in HCDS.

4. Who give us our best chance to win next year. If we hit the reset button now, we are really screwing ourselves. We are short on Senior leadership to start. Take away our next Freshman class and we are stuck with a small team dominated by Soph and Juniors. Any new coach will also be set up for the third year blues just like Holgerson resulting from small weak recruiting classes.

5. Gus Malzan is the exception not the rule. He took over a team that was loaded with 5 star talent and put it to work taking a no bowl team tot he SEC championship. He had also worked with the team previously as OC and knew who the players were. We do not have anywhere near that type of talent. We are not the only good team that has fallen this year, but don't expect coaches like Will Muscamp of Florida, Brent Bilema or Butch Jones to be fired after their terrible seasons.

6. Would you feel better if we got Doc Holliday from Marshall?

If I knew who a better coach was, I would be a saint in Mountaineer lore, but I don't have that answer. Anybody has to be better than what we currently have tho. In all my years standing behind WVU, only one other time have I seen this level of failure, and I was so caught up in my loyalty to that coach, that I was chided by my friends and alumni for my failure to recognize the complete failure of that coach. I am witness to something much worse actually, some almost 40 years later. Even if it means starting to rebuild right now, and possibly suffering another losing season, what would you do, allow Holgerson to recruit more meaningless talent to saddle the next coach with? What if we found an experienced head coach who could take the present talent and turn them into a winner? Is it so wrong to consider that? Did not Haden make a tough choice in season to can a worthless Kiffin, only to have an interim coach so inspire the same losers into a winning team? As much as I hate to say it, the personality of a coach has a whole bunch to do with how players respond to his teaching. If those players do not respect him because of his temper tantrums and constant blame game, does that not directly effect the level of desire to play well on the field? When do we wake up to the reality of this coach, he can't coach, another year, another two years? What if those two more years produce the same results? What happens to our ability to recruit then? How much is that worth to the program so heavily invested in the Big 12? Where is Luck? Why isn't he talking? My assumption has to be based on his lack of immediate support for Holgerson, that he is looking for a new coach, and with his legal mind, a way to get rid of Holgerson without paying the full buyout. Fire him for failure to complete the goals set forth by the AD at his hiring, and let him sue us, then settle out of court for pennies on the dollar. We did it to get out of the Big East, so what's a head coach. Marshall fans long ago condition themselves to accept losing and they suffer from a rather similar condition called complacency that is eroding into the minds of way too many Mountaineers, and I would rather never see a coach from Marshall ever take the reins at WVU, because they come with that mentality well planted in place. At one time I thought Doc might be an answer but no more, he too has fallen in my opinion.

Yes, I'm angry, yes I'm disgusted with what we witnessed this season, and I have no more positive feelings for Dana Holgerson to the point that starting over is a better path than continuing with this current program of failure. I refuse to accept a single further game like the Iowa State collapse. I've fallen on my sword enough!

 

[Anotherwvufan]

People said the same thing about Bobby Bowden and though that cignetti was an improvement. We see what happened with that one.

After the dismal performance this year, I would be happy to see him go, but I would expect that we would get three more years of below mediocrity. Our best chance to win next year is going to be with Holgerson.

 

[Slaton10]

If I knew who a better coach was, I would be a saint in Mountaineer lore, but I don't have that answer. Anybody has to be better than what we currently have tho. In all my years standing behind WVU, only one other time have I seen this level of failure, and I was so caught up in my loyalty to that coach, that I was chided by my friends and alumni for my failure to recognize the complete failure of that coach. I am witness to something much worse actually, some almost 40 years later. Even if it means starting to rebuild right now, and possibly suffering another losing season, what would you do, allow Holgerson to recruit more meaningless talent to saddle the next coach with? What if we found an experienced head coach who could take the present talent and turn them into a winner? Is it so wrong to consider that? Did not Haden make a tough choice in season to can a worthless Kiffin, only to have an interim coach so inspire the same losers into a winning team? As much as I hate to say it, the personality of a coach has a whole bunch to do with how players respond to his teaching. If those players do not respect him because of his temper tantrums and constant blame game, does that not directly effect the level of desire to play well on the field? When do we wake up to the reality of this coach, he can't coach, another year, another two years? What if those two more years produce the same results? What happens to our ability to recruit then? How much is that worth to the program so heavily invested in the Big 12? Where is Luck? Why isn't he talking? My assumption has to be based on his lack of immediate support for Holgerson, that he is looking for a new coach, and with his legal mind, a way to get rid of Holgerson without paying the full buyout. Fire him for failure to complete the goals set forth by the AD at his hiring, and let him sue us, then settle out of court for pennies on the dollar. We did it to get out of the Big East, so what's a head coach. Marshall fans long ago condition themselves to accept losing and they suffer from a rather similar condition called complacency that is eroding into the minds of way too many Mountaineers, and I would rather never see a coach from Marshall ever take the reins at WVU, because they come with that mentality well planted in place. At one time I thought Doc might be an answer but no more, he too has fallen in my opinion.

Yes, I'm angry, yes I'm disgusted with what we witnessed this season, and I have no more positive feelings for Dana Holgerson to the point that starting over is a better path than continuing with this current program of failure. I refuse to accept a single further game like the Iowa State collapse. I've fallen on my sword enough!

40 years??...you don't have to go back that far brother!!!

Wv record from 1976-1980:

5-6
5-6
2-9
5-6
6-6

That was under Dandy Don Nehlen.....should have fired him to I guess??

Even if it means starting to rebuild right now, and possibly suffering another losing season, what would you do, allow Holgerson to recruit more meaningless talent to saddle the next coach with?

You got to be kidding me?.......aren't they already doing just this...rebuilding??

What if those two more years produce the same results? What happens to our ability to recruit then?

See above record for Dandy Don Nehlen.1976-1980......

Fire him for failure to complete the goals set forth by the AD at his hiring, and let him sue us, then settle out of court for pennies on the dollar[HTML]

. .......crack my friend...is illegal in this country...

 

[WVUDAD]

I think its more than fair to say the program took a step backward..even in losses espescially down the strectch you look for things to build on going forward....I didn't see anything in the last 3 weeks that would speak to that....

I saw a team perhaps just going thru the motions...we can say there was a alot of inexperience, but young kids should be playing their guts out to set the tone for next season...and it just wasn't there...not sure I have seen that in a Wv team before?

Slaton, as I watched football yesterday, something struck me during the Auburn Mizzou game, take a look at how good the Auburn Oline is, THEN take a look at who they are, ONE junior, two Sophs, and two Frosh, so look at what effective coaching can do, the youth claim as a way to prop up Holgorsen is BS. Hell, look at White and Slaton...... Coaches teach youngsters. those who cant coach still claim youth as a problem in November.

 

[WVUDAD]

40 years??...you don't have to go back that far brother!!!

Wv record from 1976-1980:

5-6
5-6
2-9
5-6
6-6

That was under Dandy Don Nehlen.....should have fired him to I guess??

Even if it means starting to rebuild right now, and possibly suffering another losing season, what would you do, allow Holgerson to recruit more meaningless talent to saddle the next coach with?

You got to be kidding me?.......aren't they already doing just this...rebuilding??

What if those two more years produce the same results? What happens to our ability to recruit then?

See above record for Dandy Don Nehlen.1976-1980......

Fire him for failure to complete the goals set forth by the AD at his hiring, and let him sue us, then settle out of court for pennies on the dollar[HTML]

. .......crack my friend...is illegal in this country...

UH, 1980 was Nehlens first year, 1976-1979 was under Holgorsen #1, ER I mean Cignetti.

 

[bbwvfan]

Slaton, as I watched football yesterday, something struck me during the Auburn Mizzou game, take a look at how good the Auburn Oline is, THEN take a look at who they are, ONE junior, two Sophs, and two Frosh, so look at what effective coaching can do, the youth claim as a way to prop up Holgorsen is BS. Hell, look at White and Slaton...... Coaches teach youngsters. those who cant coach still claim youth as a problem in November.

Great point DAD. And, one that may be valid, WVU coaches may suck at what they do. I mean Crook has coached some excellent offensive lines at Harvard, and been a part of a staff at Stanford that has been excellent where he was coaching the TE's… but, maybe he sucks!

Like Coach Nehlen said, coaching is overrated. "Good players make for good coaches."

When you look at the starters for AU's offensive line…

Greg Robinson - SO - Rivals 4 star
Patrick Miller - SO - Rivals 4 star
Alex Kozan - RS FR - Rivals 4 star
Chad Slade - JR - Rivals 3 star
Reese Desmukes - JR - Rivals 4 star

Looks like those young kids are a talented bunch. Maybe they make the coaches job a little easier?

 

[Slaton10]

UH, 1980 was Nehlens first year, 1976-1979 was under Holgorsen #1, ER I mean Cignetti.

You know Dad,,ur right.......

Lets try these set of dates.....


1990 - 2000

4-7
6-5
5-4-2
11-1
7-6
5-6
8-4
7-5
8-4
4-7
7-5

That is the last 10 years (50% of his tenure) of a HALL OF FAME Coach...a coach that should have long before established a consistent elite winner year in and year out at West Virginia......the guy shoould have been reeling off 9 and 10 win years every season...you think that is unrealistic...VA Tech and Beamer was doing it....and to me the two programs are the same....

 

[Slaton10]

You know Dad,,ur right.......

Lets try these set of dates.....


1990 - 2000

4-7
6-5
5-4-2
11-1
7-6
5-6
8-4
7-5
8-4
4-7
7-5

That is the last 10 years (50% of his tenure) of a HALL OF FAME Coach...a coach that should have long before established a consistent elite winner year in and year out at West Virginia......the guy shoould have been reeling off 9 and 10 win years every season...you think that is unrealistic...VA Tech and Beamer was doing it....and to me the two programs are the same....

Throw in the first 10 years..


6-6
9-3
9-3
9-3
8-4
7-3-1
4-7
6-6
11-1
8-3-1

Not a single major bowl victory in 20 years.....as a matter of fact he set the bowl futility record by losing 8 or was it 9 consecutive bowl losses.....Hogly in two seasons has out performed his bowl resume...

 

[Anotherwvufan]

Great point DAD. And, one that may be valid, WVU coaches may suck at what they do. I mean Crook has coached some excellent offensive lines at Harvard, and been a part of a staff at Stanford that has been excellent where he was coaching the TE's… but, maybe he sucks!

Like Coach Nehlen said, coaching is overrated. "Good players make for good coaches."

When you look at the starters for AU's offensive line…

Greg Robinson - SO - Rivals 4 star
Patrick Miller - SO - Rivals 4 star
Alex Kozan - RS FR - Rivals 4 star
Chad Slade - JR - Rivals 3 star
Reese Desmukes - JR - Rivals 4 star

Looks like those young kids are a talented bunch. Maybe they make the coaches job a little easier?

Generally, a 5 star should dominate as a Freshman, a 4 star should be a starter as a Soph, 3 and 2 stars take some development and time and often never are able to improve to the point where they are starting over teh 4 and 5 star guys coming in.

You can also note that in the SEC, many of these highly rated guys will go to the NFL and never make it to their senior season. That is a problem I wish WVU had

 

[JIMKOON]

need more 5 stars lol