Game Thread: Christmas Day Games Thread

[OutlawImmortal]

Bogut 2015 MVP? Best big man since Shaq?

 

[Mecca]

The Bucks beat the Hawks by 30 points tonight.

LOL

Without Parker.

Some shameful sh!t .

 

[OutlawImmortal]

"The Lakers are better without Kobe, and Bogut is one of the best big men in the league. I'm an amazing evaluator of talent" - Hambombs

 

[Hambombs]

Without Parker.

Some shameful sh!t .

 

[Hambombs]

"The Lakers are better without Kobe, and Bogut is one of the best big men in the league. I'm an amazing evaluator of talent" - Hambombs

They actually are better without Kobe. Just like the warriors are better without the montard. And bogut is one of the best big man when healthy

 

[trojanfan12]

They actually are better without Kobe. Just like the warriors are better without the montard. And bogut is one of the best big man when healthy

Yes, because after all, they showed in the last 2 games how much better they are.:rollseyes:

It's not surprising that after not playing for almost a year and a half and coming off of 2 major injuries, there would be struggles with him figuring out what his body will and will not allow him to do, while also adjusting to new teammates and a new coach (and they to him). Because of that, it's going to appear at times that they are better without him.

However, if you honestly think that they are better without him in the long run, you need to quit watching basketball (or maybe start watching).

If anything, the last 2 games show why and how they need Kobe. They were in both of those games in the 4th quarter, but didn't have the scoring that they needed down the stretch.

What Kobe needs to learn (and hopefully he has seen that watching the games) is that they don't need him to be looking to score all of the time, they need him to pick his spots and look to do most of his scoring later in games when they struggle to find someone who can create their own shot or get a hot hand.

His teammates need to learn that Kobe is the only player on the team that demands a double team, so if they don't just stand around and watch him, they can get open shots as he will pass out of the double team if they just keep moving without the ball.

 

[Hambombs]

Yes, because after all, they showed in the last 2 games how much better they are.:rollseyes:

It's not surprising that after not playing for almost a year and a half and coming off of 2 major injuries, there would be struggles with him figuring out what his body will and will not allow him to do, while also adjusting to new teammates and a new coach (and they to him). Because of that, it's going to appear at times that they are better without him.

However, if you honestly think that they are better without him in the long run, you need to quit watching basketball (or maybe start watching).

If anything, the last 2 games show why and how they need Kobe. They were in both of those games in the 4th quarter, but didn't have the scoring that they needed down the stretch.

What Kobe needs to learn (and hopefully he has seen that watching the games) is that they don't need him to be looking to score all of the time, they need him to pick his spots and look to do most of his scoring later in games when they struggle to find someone who can create their own shot or get a hot hand.

His teammates need to learn that Kobe is the only player on the team that demands a double team, so if they don't just stand around and watch him, they can get open shots as he will pass out of the double team if they just keep moving without the ball.

He does need to pick his spots. No need to shoot 35ft shots with 2 defenders on you

 

[OutlawImmortal]

They actually are better without Kobe. Just like the warriors are better without the montard. And bogut is one of the best big man when healthy

Bogut is a good player when healthy but one of the best big men? That's blatant homerism right there. Chandler has much better numbers and Bogut doesn't even average 1 FT attempt per game. Jordan has better numbers and plays 35 minutes a night, Bogut can hardly play 25. Not even counting PFs like Ibaka, Duncan, Anthony Davis or up and coming Centers like Drummond, Plumlee, Vucevik.

No one is buying it. I think you should watch more basketball around the league because there are a lot of good big men coming out this year, maybe what you're saying was true a few years ago when Kwame was still in the league making good money. There are other games being played out there besides the Warriors.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

He does need to pick his spots. No need to shoot 35ft shots with 2 defenders on you

Yeah well, when your team is shooting poorly (36% last night without Kobe despite having quadruple the amount of Offensive Rebounds and 20 more shots than the other team) there isn't much you can do. Teams can just sit back and double team Kobe most of the time when that happens.

 

[Hambombs]

Bogut is a good player when healthy but one of the best big men? That's blatant homerism right there. Chandler has much better numbers and Bogut doesn't even average 1 FT attempt per game. Jordan has better numbers and plays 35 minutes a night, Bogut can hardly play 25. Not even counting PFs like Ibaka, Duncan, Anthony Davis or up and coming Centers like Drummond, Plumlee, Vucevik.

No one is buying it. I think you should watch more basketball around the league because there are a lot of good big men coming out this year, maybe what you're saying was true a few years ago when Kwame was still in the league making good money. There are other games being played out there besides the Warriors.

With bogut on the court they're 14.7 points better compared to chandler 7. With deandre they're much better on offense. But deandre doesn't have the impact that bogut has on defense. Which
With bogut they're about 8 points better compared to jordan only 4..

 

[Hambombs]

Bogut is easily our 2nd most important player behind curry

 

[OutlawImmortal]

With bogut on the court they're 14.7 points better compared to chandler 7. With deandre they're much better on offense. But deandre doesn't have the impact that bogut has on defense. Which
With bogut they're about 8 points better compared to jordan only 4..

If you're referring to +/-, I think that stat is a little flawed in terms of direct comparison between players. There are 4 other players out on that court with you. If you have a bad team and lose by 30 but then the bench comes in during garbage time against the other team's bench and cuts it to 20, does that mean the bench is better than the starting lineup? I believe it can give some information, but it wouldn't be my go-to stat for everything. Considering the fact that the Warriors have a very good team and only like 4-5 losses so far this year, and even less when Bogut was healthy, I don't think it's unreasonable to toss something like +/- out.

There are 10 Centers in the league with at least triple the amount of double-doubles that Bogut has.

 

[Hambombs]

If you're referring to +/-, I think that stat is a little flawed in terms of direct comparison between players. There are 4 other players out on that court with you. If you have a bad team and lose by 30 but then the bench comes in during garbage time against the other team's bench and cuts it to 20, does that mean the bench is better than the starting lineup? I believe it can give some information, but it wouldn't be my go-to stat for everything. Considering the fact that the Warriors have a very good team and only like 4-5 losses so far this year, and even less when Bogut was healthy, I don't think it's unreasonable to toss something like +/- out.

There are 10 Centers in the league with at least triple the amount of double-doubles that Bogut has.

Why is everything about who gets points and rebounds? Lee gets that and he's nowhere near the impact player that bogut is.. Points and rebounds don't= impact. The little things that don't show up in the boxscore are more telling than who scores more. Defense is a thing. Just my opinion though.

 

[Hambombs]

It's not always about individual stats either. It's also about how that player impacts everybody else's game too. There are players out there that put up the stats but messes up everyone else's flow to the game

 

[OutlawImmortal]

Why is everything about who gets points and rebounds? Lee gets that and he's nowhere near the impact player that bogut is.. Points and rebounds don't= impact. The little things that don't show up in the boxscore are more telling than who scores more. Defense is a thing. Just my opinion though.

Never said defense was meaningless and rebounding is actually a part of defense, thus the name 'defensive rebound'. Bogut, when healthy (don't you ever get tired of saying that? lol) , is a pretty damn good defender. What I disagree with is the notion that there aren't any Centers who could perform just as good or better. Jordan averages more blocks and is 10x more athletic than Bogut, which translates into a higher number of altered shots in my mind. Chandler has been known as a defensive big for the majority of his career but still puts up better offensive numbers.

I do wish the NBA kept track of altered shots, I think that would be a great indicator of who's hustling on defense on a consistent basis.

 

[Hambombs]

Never said defense was meaningless and rebounding is actually a part of defense, thus the name 'defensive rebound'. Bogut, when healthy (don't you ever get tired of saying that? lol) , is a pretty damn good defender. What I disagree with is the notion that there aren't any Centers who could perform just as good or better. Jordan averages more blocks and is 10x more athletic than Bogut, which translates into a higher number of altered shots in my mind. Chandler has been known as a defensive big for the majority of his career but still puts up better offensive numbers.

I do wish the NBA kept track of altered shots, I think that would be a great indicator of who's hustling on defense on a consistent basis.

Bogut is mush better on defense than jordan. That's no debate. Who cares if he's more athletic? Bogut is a much smarter and better defender.

 

[Hambombs]

Also blocks is not a good indicator of great defense. It's a small indicator

 

[GNG]

Bogut is easily our 2nd most important player behind curry

Because he's injured again?

 

[Hambombs]

He's always been important

 

[GNG]

He's always been important

The man is brittle.