Burrow is done

[cincygrad]

Per multiple reports.

Time to tank and improve the draft position. Onto next season.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Browning will get a few wins, probably no playoffs since the ravens and steelers will finish ahead of us and the rest of the afc is ballin.

yea, it's not a high priority to watch these games now, my wife will be glad I can do stuff.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Currently 18th in draft...they'll fall between 10-14, IMO...

Would be a host of WR's available. Maybe an OT if they move on from Williams at RT. I'd tag and trade Tee for more picks assuming WR in round 1.

Still need more DB depth..Awuzie will be gone, and Hilton isn't getting any younger. Still could use another Safety as Nick Scott sucks (as a funny aside, he played in 11 snaps last night. His 12th snap was when he was the 12th man on he field where they got flagged...he came off the field, and Lou never put him back in the game. A rare miss in F/A for Tobin lately...but Scott is likely a cut candidate, IMO).

Need an edge as well...not sure if anyone is high upside rush in round 1, but Murphy has been disappointing to this point. Need a 3-tech as well...no middle push next to Reader.

For a team that has SB sights...surprisingly a lot of holes that will need to be filled to get back to where they were...

 

[cincygrad]

Currently 18th in draft...they'll fall between 10-14, IMO...

Would be a host of WR's available. Maybe an OT if they move on from Williams at RT. I'd tag and trade Tee for more picks assuming WR in round 1.

Still need more DB depth..Awuzie will be gone, and Hilton isn't getting any younger. Still could use another Safety as Nick Scott sucks (as a funny aside, he played in 11 snaps last night. His 12th snap was when he was the 12th man on he field where they got flagged...he came off the field, and Lou never put him back in the game. A rare miss in F/A for Tobin lately...but Scott is likely a cut candidate, IMO).

Need an edge as well...not sure if anyone is high upside rush in round 1, but Murphy has been disappointing to this point. Need a 3-tech as well...no middle push next to Reader.

For a team that has SB sights...surprisingly a lot of holes that will need to be filled to get back to where they were...

Yeah, I agree... But it's pretty tough to find a team that doesn't have holes that will need to be addressed. I think they'll need to move on from Tee Higgins. I'm not even sure I would tag him anymore. Maybe if they were building a can't miss offense around Burrow and two stars you could make the case. But, as you know, the offense has never been consistent enough to outscore every opponent and it's not just going to snap into place. They would be better off rebuilding their lines and adding to the pieces they've got. Hopefully hit on a playmaker or two in the draft of FA.

Going forward, I'd love to see continued investment in an offensive line. Some young speed on offense. Build the rest around Chase and Burrow. On D, they have a few nice DBs, and a couple more years of edge play from Hendrickson and Hubbard. They also will have one of the better linebacker rooms in the league for the next 3 or 4 years. See if Murphy develops, spend on interior d-line, add another safety to compete with Battle and continue to add guys at corner.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Yeah, I agree... But it's pretty tough to find a team that doesn't have holes that will need to be addressed. I think they'll need to move on from Tee Higgins. I'm not even sure I would tag him anymore. Maybe if they were building a can't miss offense around Burrow and two stars you could make the case. But, as you know, the offense has never been consistent enough to outscore every opponent and it's not just going to snap into place. They would be better off rebuilding their lines and adding to the pieces they've got. Hopefully hit on a playmaker or two in the draft of FA.

Going forward, I'd love to see continued investment in an offensive line. Some young speed on offense. Build the rest around Chase and Burrow. On D, they have a few nice DBs, and a couple more years of edge play from Hendrickson and Hubbard. They also will have one of the better linebacker rooms in the league for the next 3 or 4 years. See if Murphy develops, spend on interior d-line, add another safety to compete with Battle and continue to add guys at corner.

Higgins is still worth a trade...teams were trying this year, despite the poor start and injury...Tag and then negotiate a 3rd rounder/2nd rounder deal with a performance based 2nd pick somewhere between 3-4th rounds...I think would get a solid trade done. He's also still worth a tag and keep for 1 year because...his history is still very good. 1 bad year doesn't scare me. Chase, Burrow, Higgins and still adding another WR wouldn't fix the consistency issues, but would give 1 year of development for the new WR, plus give this offense some depth and real ability in terms of options...because another factor not mentioned much is how little they are getting out of Boyd. The offense works when you have the 3 WR's who can get it done...right now they have 1 1/2...LOL

Agreed...OL, WR, DL, and overall team speed and athletic ability can always be added...along with RB at some point...

 

[Wamu]

That's terrible.

Been following his career since he was a backup at Ohio State.

Hope he's fully healed and ready to go next season.

 

[cincygrad]

The issue with Higgins is that he quietly has more of an injury history than I think folks will realize when just looking at games played. He dealt with a hamstring in his rookie year and played through it, but had to be removed from the game a few times at the end of the year. Last year, he played in 16 games, but basically missed the entire game of two of them. So, he really played in 14 out of 17. He's hurt again this year. I worry about his durability going forward.

I do think someone would be willing to trade for him on a tag and trade and that would be my hope. It will absolutely limit this offense next year if we lose him, but I think we need to get some new blood at the position anyway. As you mention, Boyd is no longer giving us much - It's time to move on.

I suppose if you make a deal with Reader for next year, you could go for one more run with this core group. Tag Higgins, keep Reader, add another interior lineman, find a servicable back and tight end and hope for better injury luck next season. Otherwise, it's time to identify your core folks and build a new team. The championship window will still be open given our cap situation and Burrow returning to health, but we'll need some new parts.

 

[BKBroiler9000]

Saw it coming the moment he couldn’t grip the ball on sidelines.. Sucks that we finally find a HOF talent at QB, and he’s had 2 season ending injuries in 4 years. Can’t help but feel that 2021 was the peak for this bunch, and we may never get back to the Super Bowl. Especially with this coaching staff. But we will see.

On to 2024. This team badly needs an infusion of athleticism and physicality in the trenches. The OL is particularly graded out piss poor in this regard. They need invest draft capital at G and T. On guys with elite athletic traits. I also think it’s time to move on Frank Pollack. The Bengals have spent a fortune on the OL the last 3 offseasons. Only to experience regression at every position. It’s not all a talent issue. The scheme and technique apparently aren’t working.

I also think it’s time for a new offensive philosophy. No more bubble screens and RB dump offs with no blocking. No more hoping Joe runs around and throws it up for Chase or Tee. They need more system football. They need guys who can create separation and generate YAC. They need a TE. They need speed at RB. Mixon has been good this year. But he just can’t break loose anymore. And it bogs down the running game to point the coaches just abandon it.

Tag and trade Tee for whatever picks you can get. Find his replacement(s).

The defense may be due for a soft rebuild as well. I can’t imagine Lou misses out on a HC job for another coaching cycle. Although Burrow’s injury, and the regression of the unit for 21-22 may do us a favor there.

Reader has to be re-signed. They have no other options there. He’s the engine that makes it all go. Edge needs work too. Hubbard and Trey H won’t be here forever. Murphy and Ossai have shown basically nothing thus far. Could probably use another CB with Awuzie likely gone and Hilton in the last year of his deal too.

This team will be competitive as long as Burrow is healthy. But the holes are piling up and the bill is coming due on some guys. It’s time for a reboot.

 

[jbuck]

frankly I don't know how teams do it. that is putting up great defenses every year. Maybe burrow needs to hit the weight room. Maybe hig will join him. After seeing Tanner Hudson in a few games I'm good with him. matter of fact, I think he is the answer at TE. I think we miss those safeties too

 

[DanBengalfan]

so next season, do they concentrate on other positions and just hope Tanner Hudson can start?

 

[Cincyfan78]

Saw it coming the moment he couldn’t grip the ball on sidelines.. Sucks that we finally find a HOF talent at QB, and he’s had 2 season ending injuries in 4 years. Can’t help but feel that 2021 was the peak for this bunch, and we may never get back to the Super Bowl. Especially with this coaching staff. But we will see.

On to 2024. This team badly needs an infusion of athleticism and physicality in the trenches. The OL is particularly graded out piss poor in this regard. They need invest draft capital at G and T. On guys with elite athletic traits. I also think it’s time to move on Frank Pollack. The Bengals have spent a fortune on the OL the last 3 offseasons. Only to experience regression at every position. It’s not all a talent issue. The scheme and technique apparently aren’t working.

I also think it’s time for a new offensive philosophy. No more bubble screens and RB dump offs with no blocking. No more hoping Joe runs around and throws it up for Chase or Tee. They need more system football. They need guys who can create separation and generate YAC. They need a TE. They need speed at RB. Mixon has been good this year. But he just can’t break loose anymore. And it bogs down the running game to point the coaches just abandon it.

Tag and trade Tee for whatever picks you can get. Find his replacement(s).

The defense may be due for a soft rebuild as well. I can’t imagine Lou misses out on a HC job for another coaching cycle. Although Burrow’s injury, and the regression of the unit for 21-22 may do us a favor there.

Reader has to be re-signed. They have no other options there. He’s the engine that makes it all go. Edge needs work too. Hubbard and Trey H won’t be here forever. Murphy and Ossai have shown basically nothing thus far. Could probably use another CB with Awuzie likely gone and Hilton in the last year of his deal too.

This team will be competitive as long as Burrow is healthy. But the holes are piling up and the bill is coming due on some guys. It’s time for a reboot.

To your point on the OL:

Volson’s 28.7 pass-blocking grade is the fifth-worst of 83 NFL guards who’ve played at least 20% of their team’s offensive snaps this year.

Bengals also have least athletic OL in the NFL by RAS score, and it's not particularly close. That is why when they run toss/sweep plays they struggle. They are calling plays that form to what this OL can/can't do...and Mixon is much better getting the ball and just going rather than trying to follow blockers left and right. I get wanting to spread the field left and right, but the offense is not designed to do that well...and we likely wonder why the struggle...there we are.

Mixon's best runs have been either straight ahead, or with the pulling OL between the tackles (or just outside of it limited motion so OL is able to get there) or designed counters and cutbacks. These plays take advantage of the straight forward nature of the OL and Mixon.

 

[Cincyfan78]

The issue with Higgins is that he quietly has more of an injury history than I think folks will realize when just looking at games played. He dealt with a hamstring in his rookie year and played through it, but had to be removed from the game a few times at the end of the year. Last year, he played in 16 games, but basically missed the entire game of two of them. So, he really played in 14 out of 17. He's hurt again this year. I worry about his durability going forward.

I do think someone would be willing to trade for him on a tag and trade and that would be my hope. It will absolutely limit this offense next year if we lose him, but I think we need to get some new blood at the position anyway. As you mention, Boyd is no longer giving us much - It's time to move on.

I suppose if you make a deal with Reader for next year, you could go for one more run with this core group. Tag Higgins, keep Reader, add another interior lineman, find a servicable back and tight end and hope for better injury luck next season. Otherwise, it's time to identify your core folks and build a new team. The championship window will still be open given our cap situation and Burrow returning to health, but we'll need some new parts.

It may limit the offense...but that depends on where this team ends up drafting...they get a 10-12 pick, there are going to be some WR's there worth taking. I would also expect a F/A of some kind.

Reader is going to be interesting. I feel like he's taken a small step back this year, but I can't tell if that is him or the poor play at the other DT spot? If he's willing to sign a friendly deal (like Pratt in a manner), I'd look to extend him into the 30's because DT's age better than skill positions. That being said, if he's looking to get 1 last check...I don't think it will be here, and that is going to be really interesting because the Bengals are going to have to find someone to replace him as the defense is set up around the ability of a NT who can dominate the line.

I'd have no issues trying to ride this team back adding top 10-12 picks in each round, and another year of F/A...but the OL still has to be addressed...again. Williams is likely gone at RT, but even if they are able to sign him (which I think he's done a solid job overall in year 1 at RT) they have got to find an upgrade at LG....and have to start looking for possible replacements at RG and maybe C (not that they've done bad, but Karras is going into 30's and Cappa is going to be close at 28/29).

 

[Cincyfan78]

To add:

They've got to find a way to upgrade the pass-rush outside of Hendrickson/Huber...so far, that has been a lot of swings and misses...Ossai really took a step back this year. Sample is what he is...a backup's backup. Nothing wrong with that, but if he's getting a lot of snaps...

Murphy was taken with an expected red-shirt year. He's had several plays where he's been really close...but not getting home yet.

Will likely need 1 more DB, if not 2. Hilton has been solid, but isn't getting younger. Awuzie isn't getting re-signed, and has struggled this year coming back from the knee injury, and Scott was a rare F/A whiff.

One of the other things that has hurt this offense this year is the play of Boyd...Love the guy, but his best days are behind him. That's not just because of the drops, which sucked, but he's struggled to get open and his athleticism that allowed him to thrive in the slot over the years is slowly fading. Should the Bengals move on from Higgins, and use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a solid WR...and sign a F/A slot guy...this team has a chance to add some more athleticism at the WR spot outside of Chase.

 

[redseat]

Injury bug has really screwed with him. Is he cursed?

 

[DanBengalfan]

To add:

They've got to find a way to upgrade the pass-rush outside of Hendrickson/Huber...so far, that has been a lot of swings and misses...Ossai really took a step back this year. Sample is what he is...a backup's backup. Nothing wrong with that, but if he's getting a lot of snaps...

Murphy was taken with an expected red-shirt year. He's had several plays where he's been really close...but not getting home yet.

Will likely need 1 more DB, if not 2. Hilton has been solid, but isn't getting younger. Awuzie isn't getting re-signed, and has struggled this year coming back from the knee injury, and Scott was a rare F/A whiff.

One of the other things that has hurt this offense this year is the play of Boyd...Love the guy, but his best days are behind him. That's not just because of the drops, which sucked, but he's struggled to get open and his athleticism that allowed him to thrive in the slot over the years is slowly fading. Should the Bengals move on from Higgins, and use a 1st or 2nd round pick on a solid WR...and sign a F/A slot guy...this team has a chance to add some more athleticism at the WR spot outside of Chase.

Seems we're going to use quite a bit of our draft picks on defense.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Injury bug has really screwed with him. Is he cursed?

This is going to be a bit long, so sorry in advanced...ramblings of someone who has been beating the OL/run game drum for a few years now....

The appendix thing can happen to anyone...

The knee and the wrist and calf...they happen, but it's also fair to point out just how beaten he's been through his NFL career (outside of the calf, the other 2 injuries were in season). But, even in off-season...the body can only heal so much. Burrow has been beaten, battered, and Bruised in his NFL career.

Burrow's sacks by year:

2020 - 32 in 10 games, before his knee injury. At that pace, would have had 51 and led the NFL that year.
2021 - 51. Led the NFL
2022 - 41. 5th in the NFL
2023 - 24 Through 10 games. Once pace for his lowest sack total of the year at 40 before the injury.

In 2 full years and 2 partials...or just over 3 full years...Burrow has taken 148 sacks. Not including playoffs, where IIRC Burrow was sacked 9 times in a game vs Tenn...

You might think that this year is a bit higher because of his calf issue in weeks 1-4 (or 5 or whenever he officially got healthy)...but he actually had less sacks in his 1st 5 games than his last 5 games....

Burrow is going to always have a few more sacks than some QB's for at least 1 big reason....he's been top 5 in passing attempts the past few years...even this year, he's 3rd, and he's missed a week plus a half of game. The Bengals throw the ball in relation to their run game probably more than any other team in the NFL, or would be up there...top 3 I'd guess. More on this point below.

Lack of OL early, and still not hitting on the right OL mix right now has been a major issue. Volson is one of the 5 lowest rated Guards in all of the NFL. Cappa has, surprisingly, had some struggles this year. Brown has been OK, not great, but not terrible. Overall, if they had at least a league average LG, they probably would have saved about 5 sacks so far this year. It's been better in general but I think there has been one big factor, and that is a lack of any kind of run game...and that's not all on Mixon's productivity as a runner.

Lack of a run game is killing it though. No offense the past few years has faced a light box as often as Mixon and the Bengals...and yet, before injury, the Bengals were at a near 75/25 split between Burrow Attempts and Mixon runs. When you lack creativity in the run game, and when you don't use the run to begin with...teams are going to stack up the pass rush. Why would any defense worry about the run? When you consider that at least a quarter of Mixon's runs are 3rd and 1's, 4th and 1's, or goal line type runs (in other words, high probability run situations)...between the 20's....there's zero threat of the Bengals just running the ball right at you for 3-4-5 plays in their drive. Why would any defense worry about it?

TLDR; So, injury prone? No, I don't think so...but his body is taking a massive beating and eventually it just won't heal up the way it needs in order to stay healthy...and I think that has to be a major concern for Burrow and the Bengals.

 

[DanBengalfan]

Injury bug has really screwed with him. Is he cursed?

probably not. but he needs to learn to throw the ball out of bounds when there's nothing there. the OL can't hold back AFC North DL/LB forever. Our OL was supposed to be much better this year, but it didn't work out.

 

[Cincyfan78]

Seems we're going to use quite a bit of our draft picks on defense.

The way too far out projection for me right now is likely looking at WR or RT in round 1. Lots of talent in that 10-14 range, where I think they will end up.

As always, the rest will be best available, but yes...need more at 3-tech DT, need more speed on Edge. Need more depth at DB. Still need more interior OL versatility as well...

 

[eaglesnut]

Saw it coming the moment he couldn’t grip the ball on sidelines.. Sucks that we finally find a HOF talent at QB, and he’s had 2 season ending injuries in 4 years. Can’t help but feel that 2021 was the peak for this bunch, and we may never get back to the Super Bowl. Especially with this coaching staff. But we will see.

On to 2024. This team badly needs an infusion of athleticism and physicality in the trenches. The OL is particularly graded out piss poor in this regard. They need invest draft capital at G and T. On guys with elite athletic traits. I also think it’s time to move on Frank Pollack. The Bengals have spent a fortune on the OL the last 3 offseasons. Only to experience regression at every position. It’s not all a talent issue. The scheme and technique apparently aren’t working.

I also think it’s time for a new offensive philosophy. No more bubble screens and RB dump offs with no blocking. No more hoping Joe runs around and throws it up for Chase or Tee. They need more system football. They need guys who can create separation and generate YAC. They need a TE. They need speed at RB. Mixon has been good this year. But he just can’t break loose anymore. And it bogs down the running game to point the coaches just abandon it.

Tag and trade Tee for whatever picks you can get. Find his replacement(s).

The defense may be due for a soft rebuild as well. I can’t imagine Lou misses out on a HC job for another coaching cycle. Although Burrow’s injury, and the regression of the unit for 21-22 may do us a favor there.

Reader has to be re-signed. They have no other options there. He’s the engine that makes it all go. Edge needs work too. Hubbard and Trey H won’t be here forever. Murphy and Ossai have shown basically nothing thus far. Could probably use another CB with Awuzie likely gone and Hilton in the last year of his deal too.

This team will be competitive as long as Burrow is healthy. But the holes are piling up and the bill is coming due on some guys. It’s time for a reboot.

If you lose enough games here you'll get two very good players in the draft. 2 top 40 talents.

 

[DJ]

From what I saw Browning looked pretty good overall for a guy who had taken no snaps in practice. Against a good defense.

He should be even better vs the Steelers after practicing all week.

Go get Colt McCoy to back the kid up.