Blake Barnett Transferring from Alabama

[gpm1976]

Thats,my point. Saban doesn't need 5 star QBS. The talent around their QB is generally enough to win. That means the QB is always going to be more of a game manager. That was true even with McElroy and McCarron and they have the best WRS in CFB. IF you're a 5 star there is no reason to go to Bana and be under utilized. Why is this hard to grasp? It'd be like the best RB in HS going to a team that runs it 12 times a game.

I was never sold on McCarron being elite. The only college game I can remember of him is his horrific play against Oklahoma when Bama lost to them. He did get drafted, but I don't think he'll ever have a starting job he can hold onto.

 

[ericd7633]

So in the last 15 years NCST is the only FBS program with multiple starters at QB or multiple guys long term on rosters? No.

You're changing your narrative now. You said Saban has never developed an elite or ok QB at the next level. Now all the sudden it's guys that have been on a roster long term?

I'm not gonna run through the list but you should probably do some research because no current college head coach has produced more than one elite to ok QB at the next level, and if we're only going to use the word elite than MAYBE Harbaugh/Shaw has if you consider Luck elite or not.

Also, AJ McCarron was elite in college(finished runner up for the Heisman in 2013) no game manager does that.

 

[gpm1976]

Oh, well I can agree to that, atleast when you are thinking of Coker and Sims. McCarron was elite for the college level, and Hurts has potential to be as well.

I don't know that McCarron was elite. You probably have a better memory than me, but I don't remember him stepping in big games that were on the line. The one loss that does stand out is how badly he played against OU in his last game at Bama. I like McCarron as a person and he was an intelligent guy, but I don't know that I call him elite. But yes, despite having success, Coker and Sims always made me feel like they were one bad pass/decision from disaster.

 

[rmilia1]

In his 20ish years of head coaching Saban has never developed a QB who had more NFL success than Tim Tebow..... lol.

 

[ericd7633]

I don't know that McCarron was elite. You probably have a better memory than me, but I don't remember him stepping in big games that were on the line. The one loss that does stand out is how badly he played against OU in his last game at Bama. I like McCarron as a person and he was an intelligent guy, but I don't know that I call him elite. But yes, despite having success, Coker and Sims always made me feel like they were one bad pass/decision from disaster.

AJ McCarron in 2011: 8th in QBR
AJ McCarron in 2012: 30 TD's, 3 Int's, 3rd in QBR
AJ McCarron in 2013: Finished runner up in Heisman.

He was elite every year IMO. Especially in 2012 and 2013 when more was placed on him.

In the 2012 National Championship Game he threw for 4 TD's, completed 71% of his passes and had a ADJ QBR of 97.5, with 100 being the highest you can score. If that's not stepping up in big games, I don't know what is.

 

[rmilia1]

You're changing your narrative now. You said Saban has never developed an elite or ok QB at the next level. Now all the sudden it's guys that have been on a roster long term?

I'm not gonna run through the list but you should probably do some research because no current college head coach has produced more than one elite to ok QB at the next level, and if we're only going to use the word elite than MAYBE Harbaugh/Shaw has if you consider Luck elite or not.

Also, AJ McCarron was elite in college(finished runner up for the Heisman in 2013) no game manager does that.

So guys that have been on rosters for a long time aren't mediocre? And I'm not talking about only currently. I'm talking about Saban and his entire career as a head coach. He's never developed ANYONE at QB who has ever done anything. You can't even name a long term roster guy for me and that's LOWERING the bar. Dude is a great GREAT coach. He's just shit with quarterbacks. God forbid we be honest about it and besmirch the mighty Saban

 

[gpm1976]

You're changing your narrative now. You said Saban has never developed an elite or ok QB at the next level. Now all the sudden it's guys that have been on a roster long term?

I'm not gonna run through the list but you should probably do some research because no current college head coach has produced more than one elite to ok QB at the next level, and if we're only going to use the word elite than MAYBE Harbaugh/Shaw has if you consider Luck elite or not.

Also, AJ McCarron was elite in college(finished runner up for the Heisman in 2013) no game manager does that.

AJ McCarron in 2011: 8th in QBR
AJ McCarron in 2012: 30 TD's, 3 Int's, 3rd in QBR
AJ McCarron in 2013: Finished runner up in Heisman.

He was elite every year IMO. Especially in 2012 and 2013 when more was placed on him.

In the 2012 National Championship Game he threw for 4 TD's, completed 71% of his passes and had a ADJ QBR of 97.5, with 100 being the highest you can score. If that's not stepping up in big games, I don't know what is.

The towel boy could have thrown for 4 TDs against Notre Dame that year... the most lopsided contest since Nebraska skull fucked Florida in 95. I just think McCarron is an intelligent guy who avoided costly mistakes. When I think of elite in college, I think of a guy like Manziel who could literally win the game on his own with his arm. The last memory I have of McCarron is going down to OU. He was pushed to his limits that game and it didn't turn out well. I just think he was steady, not elite.

 

[bamabear82]

The towel boy could have thrown for 4 TDs against Notre Dame that year... the most lopsided contest since Nebraska skull fucked Florida in 95. I just think McCarron is an intelligent guy who avoided costly mistakes. When I think of elite in college, I think of a guy like Manziel who could literally win the game on his own with his arm. The last memory I have of McCarron is going down to OU. He was pushed to his limits that game and it didn't turn out well. I just think he was steady, not elite.

Even in the OU loss he went 19/30 for 387 yds, 2 tds and 2 ints (which hurt). Not great but not particularly horrible. That loss had way more to do with Trevor Knight playing out of his mind and Striker blowing up the oline as the game went on. OU did a damn good job that game.

 

[ericd7633]

So guys that have been on rosters for a long time aren't mediocre? And I'm not talking about only currently. I'm talking about Saban and his entire career as a head coach. He's never developed ANYONE at QB who has ever done anything. You can't even name a long term roster guy for me and that's LOWERING the bar. Dude is a great GREAT coach. He's just shit with quarterbacks. God forbid we be honest about it and besmirch the mighty Saban

I don't give a shit one way or the other about Saban. My feeling is that McCarron will be a long term roster guy, and will get an opportunity to start somewhere if he leaves Cleveland. Matt Flynn was a long term roster guy that Saban recruited but he left LSU, same with JaMarcus Russell, recruited by Saban.

My point is outside of Jimbo at FSU, there isn't a better option to go as far as QB is concerned, right now as college football is currently structured.

 

[rmilia1]

The towel boy could have thrown for 4 TDs against Notre Dame that year... the most lopsided contest since Nebraska skull fucked Florida in 95. I just think McCarron is an intelligent guy who avoided costly mistakes. When I think of elite in college, I think of a guy like Manziel who could literally win the game on his own with his arm. The last memory I have of McCarron is going down to OU. He was pushed to his limits that game and it didn't turn out well. I just think he was steady, not elite.

Plus the debate isn't about elite in college. It's about any ANY kind of success at the next level. The most successful QN Saban has ever had in the NFL is JaMarcus Russell.... but yeah 5 star guys should for sure want to go to be coached up by him. For realz.

 

[Across The Field]

Who are you referring to when you say 'fine play'? Keep in mind you have an elite line, elite backs and receivers like cooper that just left the program. With all bama's talent, I'd rate qb performance as avg or slightly below at best.

I'd rate the QB talent as average, but the performance has been pretty stellar.

 

[rmilia1]

I don't give a shit one way or the other about Saban. My feeling is that McCarron will be a long term roster guy, and will get an opportunity to start somewhere if he leaves Cleveland. Matt Flynn was a long term roster guy that Saban recruited but he left LSU, same with JaMarcus Russell, recruited by Saban.

My point is outside of Jimbo at FSU, there isn't a better option to go as far as QB is concerned, right now as college football is currently structured.

So you legitimately don't think there is better QB systems for 5 star guys other than Sabans? Come on dude. You're fucking smart as shit. I know KNOW you don't believe that.

 

[Across The Field]

No he does not get the most out of his QBS. He manages them and they manage the offense. Having elite level wide outs but no elite QB is an indicator of a non QB friendly system . See Georgia Tech

He doesn't? He seemed to get quite a bit out of marginal talents like Greg McElroy, Blake Sims, Jake Coker, and AJ McCarron looks like he could actually be a pretty decent pro.

 

[Across The Field]

I don't give a shit one way or the other about Saban. My feeling is that McCarron will be a long term roster guy, and will get an opportunity to start somewhere if he leaves Cleveland. Matt Flynn was a long term roster guy that Saban recruited but he left LSU, same with JaMarcus Russell, recruited by Saban.

My point is outside of Jimbo at FSU, there isn't a better option to go as far as QB is concerned, right now as college football is currently structured.

I frickin wish he was in Cleveland.

 

[ericd7633]

The towel boy could have thrown for 4 TDs against Notre Dame that year... the most lopsided contest since Nebraska skull fucked Florida in 95. I just think McCarron is an intelligent guy who avoided costly mistakes. When I think of elite in college, I think of a guy like Manziel who could literally win the game on his own with his arm. The last memory I have of McCarron is going down to OU. He was pushed to his limits that game and it didn't turn out well. I just think he was steady, not elite.

McCarron's statistically worst season in college(going by QBR) was the year he finished runner up for the Heisman. All the numbers suggest he was an elite QB in college. Also, I'm not sure why you're basing your whole opinion off of one singular game? That's idiotic to me.

 

[rmilia1]

He doesn't? He seemed to get quite a bit out of marginal talents like Greg McElroy, Blake Sims, Jake Coker, and AJ McCarron looks like he could actually be a pretty decent pro.

McCarron wasn't marginal. He was 4 star. And those other guys ( aside from maybe McElroy ) didn't do anything other than not screw shit up. There are 100 college QBS who could have done the same

 

[gpm1976]

Even in the OU loss he went 19/30 for 387 yds, 2 tds and 2 ints (which hurt). Not great but not particularly horrible. That loss had way more to do with Trevor Knight playing out of his mind and Striker blowing up the oline as the game went on. OU did a damn good job that game.

Well.. he did post some good numbers. For that matter, I remember watching Tom Brady with Michigan and never thinking he was going to tear it up in the NFL. Then there was Rex Grossman.. Tore it up in college.. played for 12 seasons in the NFL and I never remember him EVER looking even decent when he played. I guess we'll have to wait to see what happens with McCarron when he gets traded.

 

[gpm1976]

McCarron's statistically worst season in college(going by QBR) was the year he finished runner up for the Heisman. All the numbers suggest he was an elite QB in college. Also, I'm not sure why you're basing your whole opinion off of one singular game? That's idiotic to me.

I can't remember really any other games he played in. I also don't like just basing my opinion on numbers. McCarron played in a few games for the Bengals last year and while the numbers looked decent, you get a better picture of why he's not ready to start when you actually watch the game.

 

[rmilia1]

Anyway this debate is dumb. Sabans system ducks for QBS and has for 20 years. Results at the next level over 2 decades point to that. Arguing otherwise is just trying to be contrary an for the sake of argument. Since his system sucks for QBS that is why I'm surprised a 5 star would choose it. Clearly the 5 stars agree with me since they don't choose it except for Barnett who learned his is take quickly and abandoned ship

 

[Across The Field]

McCarron wasn't marginal. He was 4 star. And those other guys ( aside from maybe McElroy ) didn't do anything other than not screw shit up. There are 100 college QBS who could have done the same

I didn't say McCarron was marginal, but the other guys were, and he won NCs with McElroy and Coker. If he had a guy like Andrew Luck on his roster they'd be unstoppable on offense. Barnett was a solid talent, as is Cooper Bateman, but Hurts is outperforming them. I don't see how that's an indictment on Saban's ability to produce quality from the position. I think the fact that he produces elite talent at nearly every other position is making it seem that way.