Billy Hamilton, Best speedster of all time

[MilkSpiller22]

Yes, he is better than Rickey Henderson, Ty Cobb and other greats...

No, we are not talking about the Billy Hamilton on the Reds

From 1888-1901 Billy Hamilton played for the Kansas city Cowboys, Philadelphia Phillies and the Boston Beaneaters


Now, I know it is hard to compare baseball generations, but with a career .455 OBP, and .344 BA and 914 SB in 14 seasons... those are the best numbers...

What is even more impressive is the 198 runs scored in 1894... He is 3rd all time in SB and that is with 14 seasons...

 

[Rock Strongo]

check out tony suck

yes, his real name...and arguably, the worst baseball player of all time in MLB

Tony Suck Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

2 seasons

205 PA

.151 average
0 HR
0 RBI

played catcher, OF, and 1B

32 errors in 301 chances over 3 positions (.894 fielding %)

WAR -1

 

[Indrid Cold]

Yes, he is better than Rickey Henderson, Ty Cobb and other greats...

No, we are not talking about the Billy Hamilton on the Reds

From 1888-1901 Billy Hamilton played for the Kansas city Cowboys, Philadelphia Phillies and the Boston Beaneaters


Now, I know it is hard to compare baseball generations, but with a career .455 OBP, and .344 BA and 914 SB in 14 seasons... those are the best numbers...

What is even more impressive is the 198 runs scored in 1894... He is 3rd all time in SB and that is with 14 seasons...

1894 was the year they moved the pitcher's mound back about 10 feet...the hitters went hog wild.
Hugh Duffy hit .440 and three other guys (including Hamilton) were over .400 . Oddly enough, Jesse Burkett had a poor year at only .358, but hit over .400 the next two seasons.

 

[calsnowskier]

There was little consistency in the game in those early years. I was unaware of the mound-move that Indrid referred to, but it does not surprise me. Also, the talent-spectrum in those early years was very wide. Some of the catchers were probably about the equivalent of A+ players today. Also, the catchers did not wear all the armor they wear today, so what was the motion they went through just to protect themselves?

Comparing the 1950's to the 2000's is one thing. Comparing the 1890's to the 1980's is something different entirely.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

There was little consistency in the game in those early years. I was unaware of the mound-move that Indrid referred to, but it does not surprise me. Also, the talent-spectrum in those early years was very wide. Some of the catchers were probably about the equivalent of A+ players today. Also, the catchers did not wear all the armor they wear today, so what was the motion they went through just to protect themselves?

Comparing the 1950's to the 2000's is one thing. Comparing the 1890's to the 1980's is something different entirely.

explain this then, why does ty cobb get all the hype, but this guy doesn't??

 

[calsnowskier]

explain this then, why does ty cobb get all the hype, but this guy doesn't??

Legend?

I have read that Cobb was generally considered the best player in the game by most if not all his peers. Was Hamiton ever considered the best player in the game by his peers?

Also, when you have a side story as "robust" as Cobbs', you will be remembered longer.

 

[navamind]

check out tony suck

yes, his real name...and arguably, the worst baseball player of all time in MLB

Tony Suck Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com

2 seasons

205 PA

.151 average
0 HR
0 RBI

played catcher, OF, and 1B

32 errors in 301 chances over 3 positions (.894 fielding %)

WAR -1

This is highly debatable. Bill Bergen had several seasons worth of playing time, and his career stats are:

.170/.194/.201, 21 OPS+ in 3228 plate appearances

-13.5 WAR

Tony Suck was one of the more aptly named baseball players, that's for sure.

 

[Wazmankg]

It's impossible to assess pre-1900 stats. In 1887 6 guys stole > 100 bases and some guy named Nichol stole 138. Several of the years Hamilton led the league in SB the others in the top 5 were not far behind him. The year Hamilton scored 198 runs, 7 other guys scored 150 or more. So what do the stats from back then really mean ?

 

[kramer1]

I'll take modern day Billy Hamilton in a foot race against this Billy Hamilton.

 

[broncosmitty]

explain this then, why does ty cobb get all the hype, but this guy doesn't??

Cuz he won a Triple Crown with 9 in the park homers?

He kept a midget under his bed for good luck on road trips?

 

[obxyankeefan]

explain this then, why does ty cobb get all the hype, but this guy doesn't??

Because of a scoring quirk in the 1800s. If a runner was on first and the batter hit a single with the runner advancing to third, the runner was awarded a SB.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Because of a scoring quirk in the 1800s. If a runner was on first and the batter hit a single with the runner advancing to third, the runner was awarded a SB.

If this is true, I actually kind of like that quirk... and assuming then if a runner scores from first on a single that would be 2 SB...

That is actually a quirk that I would like to see recorded in baseball today... With of course being thrown out too...

 

[obxyankeefan]

This is highly debatable. Bill Bergen had several seasons worth of playing time, and his career stats are:

.170/.194/.201, 21 OPS+ in 3228 plate appearances

-13.5 WAR

Tony Suck was one of the more aptly named baseball players, that's for sure.

Without looking up any stats on him, I remember someone doing a study and saying Doug Flynn was the worst everyday player. I can't remember if it was all-time or current in the eighties.

 

[calsnowskier]

An interesting article about the evolution of catchers gear. The first portion talks about the mound and catchers positioning in the early years of the game as well...

The Evolution of Catchers Equipment | SABR

 

[obxyankeefan]

Milk, I know this Wikipedia but it is all I can find on short notice.

Stolen base - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[navamind]

Without looking up any stats on him, I remember someone doing a study and saying Doug Flynn was the worst everyday player. I can't remember if it was all-time or current in the eighties.

Modern day, sure. But Flynn was probably facing much tougher competition than Bergen did.

 

[HammerDown]

 

[HammerDown]

 

[tducey]

Hard to compare players of different eras especially those who played in the 1880's