Bill Simmons trade idea

[flyerhawk]

Not sure that trade would really help Philly. But, it would be interesting. Imo, the Sixers just need to stay the course and develop what they have.

Simmons seems like the right guy to run their stuff too.

Yeah. To be clear, I don't think that there is any chance that this trade would happen. It was more of an interesting thought. I honestly prefer that the Sixers stick with Ben and Joel and ride it out.

 

[YourFriendGannon]

Too close in skill set to Embiid.

What does this specifically mean? Are you saying a team with Embiid and Davis would experience deficits in some areas? Or that it would cap the value of Embiid? I know some of the frontcourt players the Pelicans have tried to pair with Davis have not worked out well. If you had the two of them on a team with perimeter players who aren't too ball dominant and their chemistry is okay, I'm not sure I see the problem.

 

[Mecca]

AD for Simmons is a heist.

I love Ben.

But, I'm not trading what IS a bonafide Superstar for what MIGHT BE a perennial Allstar...one day.

Now, Embiid for Davis?

Different story.

All bullshit aside, Durant, under contract, Freak, Embiid are the only guys I wouldn't immediately hang up on you if offered straight up.

Obviously, Lebron is better.

He's also in his mid 30's.

Harden, Westbrook, Curry....pass.

 

[flyerhawk]

AD for Simmons is a heist.

I love Ben.

But, I'm not trading what IS a bonafide Superstar for what MIGHT BE a perennial Allstar...one day.

Now, Embiid for Davis?

Different story.

All bullshit aside, Durant, under contract, Freak, Embiid are the only guys I wouldn't immediately hang up on you if offered straight up.

Obviously, Lebron is better.

He's also in his mid 30's.

Harden, Westbrook, Curry....pass.

Your are assuming that the Pelicans have control for several years. They don't.

If the Pels miss the playoffs, they will be going into 19-20 with AD on his final year of his contract and he will likely walk.

Now to be clear, if AD has no desire to leave New Orleans then all of this trade talk is pointless because the Pels won't trade him for ANYONE.

Which is why you can't expect a like for like trade for AD.

The Sixers aren't trading Embiid. The Bucks aren't trading Giannis.

The question is what the Pels would trade for if they felt they had to trade AD because he was going to leave. And, honestly, they would get more for him now than this time next year.

 

[Mecca]

Your are assuming that the Pelicans have control for several years. They don't.

If the Pels miss the playoffs, they will be going into 19-20 with AD on his final year of his contract and he will likely walk.

Now to be clear, if AD has no desire to leave New Orleans then all of this trade talk is pointless because the Pels won't trade him for ANYONE.

Which is why you can't expect a like for like trade for AD.

The Sixers aren't trading Embiid. The Bucks aren't trading Giannis.

The question is what the Pels would trade for if they felt they had to trade AD because he was going to leave. And, honestly, they would get more for him now than this time next year.

Yeah...I didn't even get that far into my thought process.

Simmons for Davis is a heist.

Hypothetically speaking...

I would rather have 2 of the Celtics players and picks over Simmons.

Well, if Tatum is one of them.

But, I'd rather have Simmons and a pick over Lonzo and Ingram.

 

[LUNCHBOX]

What does this specifically mean? Are you saying a team with Embiid and Davis would experience deficits in some areas? Or that it would cap the value of Embiid? I know some of the frontcourt players the Pelicans have tried to pair with Davis have not worked out well. If you had the two of them on a team with perimeter players who aren't too ball dominant and their chemistry is okay, I'm not sure I see the problem.

They both will occupy the same areas on the court, unless you want one of them hoisting 3’s. Kind of like when Boogie was in NO.

 

[tlance]

Yeah...I didn't even get that far into my thought process.

Simmons for Davis is a heist.

Hypothetically speaking...

I would rather have 2 of the Celtics players and picks over Simmons.

Well, if Tatum is one of them.

But, I'd rather have Simmons and a pick over Lonzo and Ingram.

I agree it would be a heist, but it is a heist for the Pelicans.

Tatum is a really good young player. But Simmons has an unlimited ceiling. Tatum just isn't on that level as a prospect. There is a realistic pathway for Ben Simmons to someday evolve into the best player in the entire league. His size, athletic ability and passing/ball handling skills are a jumper away from making him a perennial first team all NBA guy.

Now, the Pelicans might prefer a Tatum package, but they shouldn't. Tatum + picks and another good player is the type of 50 cent piece plus 2 quarters trade we normally see for a superstar player that needs to move.

Simmons has the upside to be every bit as good as Davis is now and he is under team control for 4 more seasons after Davis becomes a FA. That is the extremely rare dollar for dollar trade.

This is all moot, because Philly isn't trading Simmons. But if he were made available, NO would be extremely foolish to seriously entertain any other trade package.

 

[tlance]

They both will occupy the same areas on the court, unless you want one of them hoisting 3’s. Kind of like when Boogie was in NO.

Well,

They are both modern bigs and they both hoist 3s. And Davis can definitely defend 3s and 4s.

Show me a coach who can't figure out how to make that pairing work and I will show your shitty coach.

 

[LUNCHBOX]

Well,

They are both modern bigs and they both hoist 3s. And Davis can definitely defend 3s and 4s.

Show me a coach who can't figure out how to make that pairing work and I will show your shitty coach.

It duplicates a position. The sixers would be ok if Ben ever learns to shoot.

 

[tlance]

It duplicates a position. The sixers would be ok if Ben ever learns to shoot.

Anthony Davis is the icon for what a big should be in the positionless basketball era.

He can play 4,5 or even 3 if you needed him to. Embiid is a true 5, but he has perimeter skills.

PLaying 2 bigs together is only difficult if they both need the ball within 15 feet of the basket to be effective or if they are unable to defend perimeter players in space. Davis and EMbiid can both shoot and pass, so the only issue on offense is getting them to share and play off one another instead of just taking turns. Defensively, while Embiid is more of a traditonal 5 on that end, Davis can guard perimeter players.

Again, this would only be an issue if they didn't get along.

 

[flyerhawk]

Ben Simmons Is Not Holding the Sixers Back

Article argues that Simmons' lack of a jump shot is wildly overblown.

 

[shopson67]

You managed to argue that the trade is bad for both sides. Well done.

As I've said, I don't know if the Sixers would make that deal. But Embiid and Davis and Butler would be a pretty interesting mix.

Simmons may not shoot from the outside but he still puts up impressive numbers.

It is bad for both sides and makes no sense for either IMO. Simmons' playmaking can be done by a PG, and those typically spread the floor. No way does New Orleans trade AD with Simmons being the main piece coming back.

Embiid/Davis/Butler (if Butler re-signs, he's already starting to cause trouble, and Embiid is whining as well) leaves the team with no play maker. That can be resolved easier, but finding the pieces to add to Simmons to send to New Orleans would be very tough.

 

[flyerhawk]

It is bad for both sides and makes no sense for either IMO. Simmons' playmaking can be done by a PG, and those typically spread the floor. No way does New Orleans trade AD with Simmons being the main piece coming back.

Embiid/Davis/Butler (if Butler re-signs, he's already starting to cause trouble, and Embiid is whining as well) leaves the team with no play maker. That can be resolved easier, but finding the pieces to add to Simmons to send to New Orleans would be very tough.

Who are the players you think the Pelicans would trade AD for?

 

[Sparhawk]

It is bad for both sides and makes no sense for either IMO. Simmons' playmaking can be done by a PG, and those typically spread the floor. No way does New Orleans trade AD with Simmons being the main piece coming back.

So, NO is better off doing nothing and letting him walk after next season???

 

[shopson67]

So, NO is better off doing nothing and letting him walk after next season???

No, they trade him elsewhere. It's not like the Sixers are the only option. Every team will be trying to find to construct a deal worthy of AD.

 

[flyerhawk]

No, they trade him elsewhere. It's not like the Sixers are the only option. Every team will be trying to find to construct a deal worthy of AD.

Right. So can you come up with some trade scenarios that other teams would offer that would be superior?

 

[tlance]

No, they trade him elsewhere. It's not like the Sixers are the only option. Every team will be trying to find to construct a deal worthy of AD.

Please name 1 other than the obvious (Boston)

You are way undervaluing Simmons here. He is still on a rookie contract for the next 1.5 seasons before he hits RFA

After considering how good he is currently, + his future upside + his contract, there aren't 5 players in the entire NBA with more current trade value than Simmons. And AD is not one of them because he is only under contract 1.5 more years.

5.5 years of Simmons is worth more than 1.5 of AD to any non-contender.

 

[Sparhawk]

No, they trade him elsewhere. It's not like the Sixers are the only option. Every team will be trying to find to construct a deal worthy of AD.

They are one of the few options that has a cost-controlled star player in their 2nd or 3rd year. Probably looking at Simmons/Tatum/maybe Mitchell, but then it starts getting dicey and 1st round picks tend to not have immediate value. NO knows that AD can walk to LAL after next season. AD might do that anyway, but if a contender trades for him contingent on him signing an extension, then the options are few.

edit : flyerhawk and tlance ninja'd me

 

[Gman]

People keep bringing up the possibility of Tatum being offered...

I know we're speaking hypothetically, but I think (right or wrong) Tatum would be untouchable from the C's perspective.

Anyone else would be fair game. A package including Smart, Jaylen Brown, and multiple 1st round picks... (and any non-star player the Pelicans wanted thrown in) would lead to a quick yes from Boston.

Frankly, I think Simmons is in a similar place. I just don't see Philly moving him...

... not even for AD.

 

[Sparhawk]

People keep bringing up the possibility of Tatum being offered...

I know we're speaking hypothetically, but I think (right or wrong) Tatum would be untouchable from the C's perspective.

Anyone else would be fair game. A package including Smart, Jaylen Brown, and multiple 1st round picks... (and any non-star player the Pelicans wanted thrown in) would lead to a quick yes from Boston.

Frankly, I think Simmons is in a similar place. I just don't see Philly moving him...

... not even for AD.

Agreed.

It's not so much about an actual trade, but more of a 'what would they want in return' hypothetical. As blatant homers, we all tend to overvalue our own players.