Another 5 Years or More Miami

[Stakesarehigh]

You sum of a biotch.

I wanted them so so so bad to trade whatever it was to go get Stroud. He was one of those every 5 years kind of QBs that will compete for Championships year in and year out.

With Tua, the Fish will win 10 to 12 games a season, make the playoffs, but always an early exit and never truly compete for the AFC much less a Super Bowl bid.

Seeing Jayden Daniels has some next level potential in this year's draft, but this year's QB class seriously underwhelms me. Maybe hold on to Tua for another year and try to get Jalen Milroe in 2025. While Milroe is not a polished QB right yet, he is a freak athlete like a Lamar Jackson type with an absolute cannon for an arm.

I feel like there is a ton of after the fact comments on Stroud

give me receipts that anyone said he was an every 5 year guy. his S2 test would've bombed his draft ranking If not for Houston taking a chance

I never doubted CJ. but I'm also a homer. But I watched that dude throw an absolutely beautiful ball for 2 years and we saw it again yesterday. The best dbs in the league in man coverage couldn't phase his passing ability.

 

[wood20ks]

could you imagine Stroud on the Dolphins?

That touch pass to Schultz was a thing of beauty......

 

[HuskerOC]

I feel like there is a ton of after the fact comments on Stroud

give me receipts that anyone said he was an every 5 year guy. his S2 test would've bombed his draft ranking If not for Houston taking a chance

I never doubted CJ. but I'm also a homer. But I watched that dude throw an absolutely beautiful ball for 2 years and we saw it again yesterday. The best dbs in the league in man coverage couldn't phase his passing ability.

Pretty sure I've got comments on here saying Stroud was undoubtedly the #1 pick in last year's draft, Bryce Young was a fraud, and teams needed to trade up to get CJ.

His performance against Jawja in the CFP Semi-Finals convinced me he was a generational talent, and by far the best QB in the draft. Nearly dragged that Buckeye team to a win over a much better Jawja team. He was under pressure all night, working the pocket, buying time, and throwing straight dimes all night. 23 for 34 for 348 yards and 4 TDs along with 12 scrambles for 34 yards not taking a single sack.

 

[HuskerOC]

Pretty sure I've got comments on here saying Stroud was undoubtedly the #1 pick in last year's draft, Bryce Young was a fraud, and teams needed to trade up to get CJ.

His performance against Jawja in the CFP Semi-Finals convinced me he was a generational talent, and by far the best QB in the draft. Nearly dragged that Buckeye team to a win over a much better Jawja team. He was under pressure all night, working the pocket, buying time, and throwing straight dimes all night. 23 for 34 for 348 yards and 4 TDs along with 12 scrambles for 34 yards not taking a single sack.

To add more to it, I remember his calm disgust and face after that game. He wasn't a crying bitch proud of what he almost did and smugly self-congratulating. He was mad. He had the face of a stone cold baller that felt he should have and could have done more. He loved that spotlight, he loved that competition and wanted more and felt he failed. Sure, he played great, but his team didn't win, and that was all that mattered to him.

 

[Iggloo]

I really question whether the Dolphins can win anything with their offensive philosophy. The whole track team on a football field thing is going to be hard in the postseason, especially in colder weather, as we saw last night.

 

[HuskerOC]

I really question whether the Dolphins can win anything with their offensive philosophy. The whole track team on a football field thing is going to be hard in the postseason, especially in colder weather, as we saw last night.

That is a great question.

It has been proven that fast up tempo offenses can win, and win Super Bowls. But you have to have a heady trigger-man at QB and the ability to grind out 1st downs.

Miami desperately needs a TE, and some 'go to' plays for 2 to 4 yards in the passing game. Hill and Waddle are great at stretching defenses to their extremes, but do little in the short yardage game.

Chiefs undoubtedly miss Hill, and they were nearly impossible to stop with him in the mix. They have now adjusted, and while Kelce is a major part of their offense, they can grind out drives and score points. And that major factor for the Chiefs is they have Mahomes. Dude can make plays and create offense unlike any other QB in the league.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I really question whether the Dolphins can win anything with their offensive philosophy. The whole track team on a football field thing is going to be hard in the postseason, especially in colder weather, as we saw last night.

I don't think their offensive philosophy is that much of a problem. They run the ball well and just don't air it out like say the Chargers. The Chiefs and Spagnolo were smart last night and totally took that away so that goes back to Tua. Fwiw, I don't think Tua is some awful QB. He has several good points. But he does have a below average arm and he isn't a guy that can put the team on his back and take them where they need to go. The Dolphins are in a tough spot here. He is going into his 5th year option at $23 mil or whatever it is and his agents are going to ask Miami's FO for a long term extension. They are in that no man's land of having no options for an actual upgrade while having a QB that isn't worth upwords of $45 mil for 4-5 years. Their only prayer of being a legit contender and it's a slim prayer is that they have the #1 seed and home field and continue to build that roster. The defensive injuries hurt them for sure but they aren't winning shit in a cold weather/ windy environment with a weak arm at QB. They are in a conference that has Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson and now Stroud and Herbert. Teams and QBs with big arms or massive talent and for the most part know how to win and Tua just doesn't stack up to that. There is no easy answer here and no sugar coating it. They won't have any high draft picks because they will be a perrennial 10+ win team in the play-offs getting beat by tougher competition.

 

[psaboy]

It can’t be both because A) Herbert has never been in position to play when it matters and B) Tua has an offensive genius in McDaniel as his play caller and Herbert hasn’t had anyone even half as good calling his plays.

I laugh at offensive genius. I've heard that and not sure I agree.

 

[Dr. Strangelove]

I laugh at offensive genius. I've heard that and not sure I agree.

Yeah, I don't think that term should even be used. But I do think he's a really smart coach who is just trying to get the best out of what he's working with. His work last year going to Buffalo with his practice squad QB and almost pulling off an upset shows he knows how to coach.

 

[HuskerOC]

I don't think their offensive philosophy is that much of a problem. They run the ball well and just don't air it out like say the Chargers. The Chiefs and Spagnolo were smart last night and totally took that away so that goes back to Tua. Fwiw, I don't think Tua is some awful QB. He has several good points. But he does have a below average arm and he isn't a guy that can put the team on his back and take them where they need to go. The Dolphins are in a tough spot here. He is going into his 5th year option at $23 mil or whatever it is and his agents are going to ask Miami's FO for a long term extension. They are in that no man's land of having no options for an actual upgrade while having a QB that isn't worth upwords of $45 mil for 4-5 years. Their only prayer of being a legit contender and it's a slim prayer is that they have the #1 seed and home field and continue to build that roster. The defensive injuries hurt them for sure but they aren't winning shit in a cold weather/ windy environment with a weak arm at QB. They are in a conference that has Mahomes, Allen, Burrow, Jackson and now Stroud and Herbert. Teams and QBs with big arms or massive talent and for the most part know how to win and Tua just doesn't stack up to that. There is no easy answer here and no sugar coating it. They won't have any high draft picks because they will be a perrennial 10+ win team in the play-offs getting beat by tougher competition.

Excellent post.

 

[Iggloo]

Miami's whole offense is built on big, explosive plays, not moving the chains. That's not a bad thing on paper in the modern NFL.

But when you get into the playoffs and have to play tougher defenses, and outdoor games, the game is still the game. When football is distilled to its essence--gaining 10 yards in four tries or giving the ball to the other side--every yard becomes a struggle, and toughness becomes paramount.

KC was WAY tougher and more physical offensively in that game than Miami. They didn't just call runs, they punched Miami in the mouth and very wisely realized that in subzero weather, when your hands are frozen numb, tackling becomes a test of will. How bad do you really want this?

Miami failed that test relatively early, and the game was basically over IMO.

Guys like Mostert and Achane are great when it's 70 and sunny on a grass field. When it's frozen tundra and people mean business, give me a Pacheco who can run with power as well as speed, all day.

 

[Iggloo]

As for Tua, I honestly think he's not it. I also think he is one of the scarier ticking time bombs in the sport, with all his head injuries. I worry things will end very poorly for Tua, with CTE or something, and it will be a huge black eye for the NFL that he was even out there.

 

[HuskerOC]

But when you get into the playoffs and have to play tougher defenses, and outdoor games, the game is still the game. When football is distilled to its essence--gaining 10 yards in four tries or giving the ball to the other side--every yard becomes a struggle, and toughness becomes paramount.

KC was WAY tougher and more physical offensively in that game than Miami. They didn't just call runs, they punched Miami in the mouth and very wisely realized that in subzero weather, when your hands are frozen numb, tackling becomes a test of will. How bad do you really want this?

Miami failed that test relatively early, and the game was basically over IMO.

Guys like Mostert and Achane are great when it's 70 and sunny on a grass field. When it's frozen tundra and people mean business, give me a Pacheco who can run with power as well as speed, all day.

Another excellent post.

"When football is distilled to its essence--gaining 10 yards in four tries or giving the ball to the other side--every yard becomes a struggle and toughness becomes paramount".

That is the truest of NFL playoff football, and in January's extreme weather played out before our very eyes.

 

[Iggloo]

You have to give Reid a lot of credit for understanding the situation with the elements, and his own team's strengths, and playing to those strengths. The younger Reid was sometimes too stubborn and kept passing it even when it was not the strength of his roster, and he lost several NFC title games he probably should have won as a result. He's learned this the hard way.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Pretty sure I've got comments on here saying Stroud was undoubtedly the #1 pick in last year's draft, Bryce Young was a fraud, and teams needed to trade up to get CJ.

His performance against Jawja in the CFP Semi-Finals convinced me he was a generational talent, and by far the best QB in the draft. Nearly dragged that Buckeye team to a win over a much better Jawja team. He was under pressure all night, working the pocket, buying time, and throwing straight dimes all night. 23 for 34 for 348 yards and 4 TDs along with 12 scrambles for 34 yards not taking a single sack.

I agree with you 100 if that's what you said. Because everything on the field told me CJ was a better footbal player than Bryce Young and obviously he's an ideal size where Bryce isn't. But again I think I clarified I was also highly prejudiced.

I just don't know that I saw anyone of note say he was that rare a talent

 

[HuskerOC]

I agree with you 100 if that's what you said. Because everything on the field told me CJ was a better footbal player than Bryce Young and obviously he's an ideal size where Bryce isn't. But again I think I clarified I was also highly prejudiced.

I just don't know that I saw anyone of note say he was that rare a talent

Obviously I was nobody of note.

Maybe I don't post as much as many on this forum, but was bagged early this season for saying Tua was shit, and that Stroud was the real deal from basically Week 1.

And no, I don't want to be a told you so clown. I want my Fish to fucking win.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Obviously I was nobody of note.

lol

I mean like Adam Schefter

I ain't shit either

 

[Stakesarehigh]

That is a great question.

It has been proven that fast up tempo offenses can win, and win Super Bowls. But you have to have a heady trigger-man at QB and the ability to grind out 1st downs.

Miami desperately needs a TE, and some 'go to' plays for 2 to 4 yards in the passing game. Hill and Waddle are great at stretching defenses to their extremes, but do little in the short yardage game.

Chiefs undoubtedly miss Hill, and they were nearly impossible to stop with him in the mix. They have now adjusted, and while Kelce is a major part of their offense, they can grind out drives and score points. And that major factor for the Chiefs is they have Mahomes. Dude can make plays and create offense unlike any other QB in the league.

they definitely need a good slot guy.

 

[Iggloo]

I agree with you 100 if that's what you said. Because everything on the field told me CJ was a better footbal player than Bryce Young and obviously he's an ideal size where Bryce isn't. But again I think I clarified I was also highly prejudiced.

I just don't know that I saw anyone of note say he was that rare a talent

I think a lot of people actually said Stroud had rare pocket passer talent. The questions seemed to be about his head, and whether he had the fire in the belly as well as smarts to be a franchise QB, since his tenure at Ohio State was seen as a mild disappointment.

Some of that frankly may have been racist IMO. Because he was not Lamar or Hurts as a mobile QB making plays on the move and when things broke down, people didn't know how to evaluate him. He's actually a good athlete as he has shown, who can run "off script" just fine. It's just a funny criticism because you didn't hear that criticism too much about many other Qbs with different melanin.

I personally thought Young was much better to be honest, because he seemed to be a better field general in college. In hindsight, that was probably all coaching, the difference between Saban and Ryan Day, and people projected it on the Qbs.

 

[HuskerOC]

You have to give Reid a lot of credit for understanding the situation with the elements, and his own team's strengths, and playing to those strengths. The younger Reid was sometimes too stubborn and kept passing it even when it was not the strength of his roster, and he lost several NFC title games he probably should have won as a result. He's learned this the hard way.

Yep. Reid has been vital in the Chiefs mainstay.

Chiefs have been at the top end of the NFL for a good 6 year stretch. While Mahomes is a huge part of that, it is very hard to stay at that level in the NFL.

Their D was a massive shit show not all that long ago, and they built that end up to being one of the league's very best this year. That isn't by chance, that is by design.

Reid is a very big part of the Chiefs decision making. Giving up Tyreek was a huge loss to their explosive offense, but they had answers and knew they needed to build that D. 2 years later, and they are still on top and a huge contender yet again with an almost completely different team.