Angels Get Kinsler, Tigers Get 2 Prospects

[Yo Tee]

Angels get Kinsler for prospects in Tigers trade

Angels making some moves this offseason. But do these moves make them a Wild Card contender?

 

[Nasty_Magician]

Good, did not want thed Mets coughing up the few assets they have for a 2nd baseman that does not factor in long term.

 

[Yo Tee]

Good, did not want thed Mets coughing up the few assets they have for a 2nd baseman that does not factor in long term.

Agreed. I know the Angels are trying to be relevant this year but Kinsler doesn't make you relevant. Not to mention, your signing of Otani got fucked from Day 2.

 

[msgkings322]

Agreed. I know the Angels are trying to be relevant this year but Kinsler doesn't make you relevant. Not to mention, your signing of Otani got fucked from Day 2.

They were close last year, they don't need a whole lot to make the playoffs. They are probably tired of wasting Trout's historic career not even getting him playoff ABs.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Agreed. I know the Angels are trying to be relevant this year but Kinsler doesn't make you relevant. Not to mention, your signing of Otani got fucked from Day 2.

It wasn't like the Angels were a 60 win team though, to where these moves won't matter - they were just 2 games under .500 and 5 games from a WC spot, and that was with Trout missing about 50 games.

LAA was also dead last among MLB teams in 2B OPS (by 40+ points), so adding Kinsler is potentially a big improvement over their weak spot.

 

[Yo Tee]

It wasn't like the Angels were a 60 win team though, to where these moves won't matter - they were just 2 games under .500 and 5 games from a WC spot, and that was with Trout missing about 50 games.

That's what I'm saying. They don't need Kinsler. Trout not missing 50 games might have given them the advantage over the Twins. Otani improves the team. Kinsler barely improves the team.

 

[StanMarsh51]

That's what I'm saying. They don't need Kinsler. Trout not missing 50 games might have given them the advantage over the Twins. Otani improves the team. Kinsler barely improves the team.

I'd think Kinsler's a big improvement given the garbage they had at 2B last year (their 2B collectively had the worst OPS among all MLB teams in 2017).

Angels 2017 2B - .206 AVG, 14 HR, .601 OPS
Kinsler 2017 -----.236 AVG, 22 HR, .725 OPS

And that was with 2017 being the worst year of Kinsler's career...in 2015-2016 he had a .292 AVG and .800 OPS, so if he can rebound to that, it's a big difference offensively.

 

[Yo Tee]

I'd think Kinsler's a big improvement given the garbage they had at 2B last year (their 2B collectively had the worst OPS among all MLB teams in 2017).

Angels 2017 2B - .206 AVG, 14 HR, .601 OPS
Kinsler 2017 -----.236 AVG, 22 HR, .725 OPS

And that was with 2017 being the worst year of Kinsler's career...if he can rebound to his norms, he's a .270 hitter and near .800s OPS player.

But if he doesn't improve he's not that big of an improvement. So instead of their 2B being 1-5 on average, he will be 1-4 on average. I'm not that big of an Ian Kinsler guy. I think he's a little overrated. Like I said, he's BARELY an improvement when compared to last year.

 

[StanMarsh51]

But if he doesn't improve he's not that big of an improvement. So instead of their 2B being 1-5 on average, he will be 1-4 on average. I'm not that big of an Ian Kinsler guy. I think he's a little overrated. Like I said, he's BARELY an improvement when compared to last year.

I don't see how it's barely an improvement when Kinsler's OPS (in his worst year) was 125 points better than the Angels' collective 2B....that's a 21% improvement.

Just to put that into perspective, that 21% difference is about the same gap in OPS between Kris Bryant and Todd Frazier, or Aaron Judge and Jay Bruce. I don't think anyone would say Judge is barely better than Bruce or Bryant is barely better than Frazier.

 

[black francis]

Not to mention the defense up the middle will be improved.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Angels were in the WC race in mid September

I hear Headley is heading their way also

 

[Howie115]

Not to mention the defense up the middle will be improved.

Yes, Kinsler is still damn good defensively. Gold Glove in 2016 and a GG Finalist last year.

Pretty much a salary dump for the Tigers. The two prospects they got aren't highly rated.

 

[navamind]

Angels 2nd basemen combined for -0.3 WAR (28th in MLB) and hit .207/.274/.318 with a 60 wRC+ (tied for last with the Rangers). Even if Kinsler's 2018 is in line with 2017 (.236/.313/.412, 91 wRC+, 2.4 WAR), that would be a pretty big upgrade over what the Angels got last year. Sometimes even an average player can represent a significant upgrade.

Fangraphs currently projects them to win 85 games next year, good enough for the 2nd WC. I don't think that projection accounts for Ohtani either, or at least I don't see him anywhere. There's still some question marks, especially their starting pitching (health and depth). But if enough goes right, I could see them easily winning 90+ games and taking a WC. I'm not all that impressed with the rest of the AL outside of BOS/NYY/CLE/HOU.

 

[broncosmitty]

It wasn't like the Angels were a 60 win team though, to where these moves won't matter - they were just 2 games under .500 and 5 games from a WC spot, and that was with Trout missing about 50 games.

LAA was also dead last among MLB teams in 2B OPS (by 40+ points), so adding Kinsler is potentially a big improvement over their weak spot.

Their defense up the middle will be the best in baseball next year too.


They didn't give up anything that factors at the big league level for years, if ever.


Two nice additions thanks to Detroit salary dumps. Three if you count Maybin. But nobody has to count that one.

Should go hard for Darvish. Houston is the most talented team in baseball. But nobody wins a division by default. They add some quality innings to the rotations and they are a very nice team. Having the best player in baseball should be easy to build around. And they're making it look that way right now.

 

[williewilliejuan]

Angels get Kinsler for prospects in Tigers trade

Angels making some moves this offseason. But do these moves make them a Wild Card contender?

No, because as usual they’re going after the “shiniest” free agents instead of addressing their actual needs.

 

[navamind]

I thought the Red Sox should have been all over this. They could have easily topped the Angels' offer and they need a 2nd baseman with Pedroia's status.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I thought the Red Sox should have been all over this. They could have easily topped the Angels' offer and they need a 2nd baseman with Pedroia's status.

They love Marco Hernandez

 

[Howie115]

No, because as usual they’re going after the “shiniest” free agents instead of addressing their actual needs.

Angels second basemen hit .207 last year with no power. I can't see how 2B was not at least one of their "actual needs".

Kinsler is a .273 career hitter with good power and still very good speed. He hit .236 with 22 HR last season, but the batting average was fueled by a statistical anomaly - an unusually low .244 BABIP. His career BABIP is .286, so one can expect at least a modest rebound next season.

 

[navamind]

Angels second basemen hit .207 last year with no power. I can't see how 2B was not at least one of their "actual needs".

Kinsler is a .273 career hitter with good power and still very good speed. He hit .236 with 22 HR last season, but the batting average was fueled by a statistical anomaly - an unusually low .244 BABIP. His career BABIP is .286, so one can expect at least a modest rebound next season.

Yep. As for Ohtani, he could help remedy the Angels lack of production at 1B/DH and provide depth to a rotation that needs it. They went through like 11 starting pitchers last year between Heaney/Richards/Shoemaker/Skaggs getting hurt. I think Ohtani is pretty capable of being an improvement over Ricky Nolasco.

 

[tducey]

They got Cozart as well today, definitely a team that could be a wild card contender in 2018.