2024 Offseason thread

[Old Lion]

I would hope they sign one of Xavien Howard, Gilmore, or Witherspoon. Any one of them is an upgrade over Sutton and removes instant need to force an early drsft pick now.

Need to get the situation rectified ASAP with Sutton. If he is in serious trouble his contract can be voided according to NFL rules I believe and we can use that money for one of these guys.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I would hope they sign one of Xavien Howard, Gilmore, or Witherspoon. Any one of them is an upgrade over Sutton and removes instant need to force an early drsft pick now.

I had initially thought about Stephon Gilmore pre-combine and then read he tore his labrum in the last regular season game versus Washington.

Holmes likes signing injured free agent or drafted players, so it's possible.

Cowboys CB Stephon Gilmore to have shoulder surgery before free agency

From @ToddBrock24f7: The veteran was set to wear a shoulder harness for the duration of the Cowboys’ playoff run. He’ll have his torn labrum repaired this week.

cowboyswire.usatoday.com

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Starting to think we may have to go CB now. Sutton may have gone full Titus on us.

I don't think the Sutton predicament changes Holmes draft philosophy one bit.

It's weird having a competent GM and many others in the front office.

Former GM's BQ and Mayhew would more than likely change course due to the Sutton issue.

Holmes has fans guessing all too often and probably on the wrong side.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

You are probably right about Frazier. I didnt know he actually broke his leg at the end of the season. I just assumed it was just a minor injury when I saw him at the combine.

Beebe is not a first-round talent.

Holmes has been on record stating that in any draft there are only 8-10 players that are graded as legitimate first round talent. Also, Holmes stated last year that he had 14 players graded as true first round talent and that was an anomaly.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Need to get the situation rectified ASAP with Sutton. If he is in serious trouble his contract can be voided according to NFL rules I believe and we can use that money for one of these guys.

Only any future bonuses - per game, workout etc., and future base salaries can be negated.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I would hope they sign one of Xavien Howard, Gilmore, or Witherspoon. Any one of them is an upgrade over Sutton and removes instant need to force an early drsft pick now.

Careful now, some fans thought the same when Lions signed Sutton last year and yes, I get it that fans will state that Sutton would be better as a No.2 CB after the fact of 2023 season. Most fans stated right after his signing that he was now CB1.

I guess he was by default only.

 

[Old Lion]

Beebe is not a first-round talent.

Holmes has been on record stating that in any draft there are only 8-10 players that are graded as legitimate first round talent. Also, Holmes stated last year that he had 14 players graded as true first round talent and that was an anomaly.

Beebee is a stretch for rd 1 for sure. He is more of a road grader and needs a certain scheme to be more than that in the NFL.

So what does Holmes do when those 8-10 guys are gone by pick 29? Trade out?

 

[Mebert]

Careful now, some fans thought the same when Lions signed Sutton last year and yes, I get it that fans will state that Sutton would be better as a No.2 CB after the fact of 2023 season. Most fans stated right after his signing that he was now CB1.

I guess he was by default only.

I don't think any of them are long-time solutions, Sutton was not great, but he was still the second-best option we had. The loss leaves us in danger of being a repeat secondary of last year. Draft should still be critical, but I would rather it not be a mandatory 1st round.

 

[Thruthefog]

Graham Barton (T) Duke.

Our (C) of the future.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Holmes has been on record stating that in any draft there are only 8-10 players that are graded as legitimate first round talent

I need to retract this claim by me.

Lions GM reveals how few 2023 prospects earned 1st-round grades

The Lions didn’t even have half the number of players with first-round grades to fill out the first round

draftwire.usatoday.com

During a very engaging interview with NFL Network’s Peter Schrager, Holmes declared that the Lions issued just 14 first-round grades to players in the last draft class.

“In a normal year, you’ll have like true first-round talent players, you might have about 17 or 18 guys,” Holmes said. “I really haven’t seen any higher than 20 in all the years that I’ve been doing it.”

Holmes then dropped the info,

“We ended up with 14 guys, and that was at the very end.”

Detroit drafted two of them: RB Jahmyr Gibbs at No. 12 and LB Jack Campbell at No. 18. Holmes added about Campbell,

“When I say there was only 14 guys, Jack Campbell wasn’t 14th. You know what I mean, so, that’s why it was easy.”

It’s not uncommon at all for different teams to have divergent evaluations of players and the number of first-round grades given out. Holmes actually revealing the number, and how low the number was in 2023, is information that validates that fact and is info that we don’t normally get.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

So what does Holmes do when those 8-10 guys are gone by pick 29? Trade out?

I'm not implying that at all.

32 teams are slotted to draft in each round - minus compensatory rounds or forfeited picks (bounty gate first round, if memory serves me correctly).

We've seen Belichick and others trade out of the first-round numerous times as their evaluation of remaining players may not match up with their board for first round picks.

It's quite possible that a team wanting a QB in the top 10 picks of the 2nd round may want that 5th year option.

Brad is going to stick to his system and format.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I don't think any of them are long-time solutions, Sutton was not great, but he was still the second-best option we had. The loss leaves us in danger of being a repeat secondary of last year. Draft should still be critical, but I would rather it not be a mandatory 1st round.

I don't know if they're quite yet on repeat mode for the secondary issues in 2024 or not. I do understand that Holmes may have to find another free agent CB if this Sutton situation turns out to be on the wrong side (pretty much already is).

I don't believe Holmes is forced in any manner whatsoever to draft position X at any time.

I posted a week a comment by Holmes a week or more back that Holmes stated finding the right fit at the CB position is tough - paraphrasing mind you.

 

[Old Lion]

I'm not implying that at all.

32 teams are slotted to draft in each round - minus compensatory rounds or forfeited picks (bounty gate first round, if memory serves me correctly).

We've seen Belichick and others trade out of the first-round numerous times as their evaluation of remaining players may not match up with their board for first round picks.

It's quite possible that a team wanting a QB in the top 10 picks of the 2nd round may want that 5th year option.

Brad is going to stick to his system and format.

I get that. But what does he do if no other team wants to trade up and his first rounders are gone?

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I don't think any of them are long-time solutions, Sutton was not great, but he was still the second-best option we had. The loss leaves us in danger of being a repeat secondary of last year. Draft should still be critical, but I would rather it not be a mandatory 1st round.

Here's the article with Holmes discussing DB play/players. There's another one that I have somewhere that's a little more precise.

KEY QUESTIONS: Why re-signing players is so important to Holmes

Tim Twentyman covers all the key questions from general manager Brad Holmes' Combine press conference.

www.detroitlions.com

Why hasn't Holmes drafted an outside cornerback higher in the draft over the last three seasons?
The only outside cornerback Holmes has drafted the last three years was Ifeatu Melifonwu out of Syracuse, but that was late in the third round. He's since been moved to safety.

Holmes said that hasn't been intentional. He said watching someone play cornerback at a high level is like poetry in motion.

"I don't want to call myself a snob of outside corners, but I have a lot of appreciation for that position," Holmes said. "I was a cornerback crosscheck for like over a decade with the Rams and I love corner play. I can watch DB individuals all day every day. We just want to get the right fit."

That's a big area of need for the Lions heading into free agency next month and the NFL Draft in late April.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

^^^^

That response above signals to me that he'll be very picky regarding DB's whether free agents or draft eligible.

Also, of note there was an article on LionsWire that the alleged pick last year was going to be Witherspoon. Holmes had an opportunity to draft Gonzalez, Banks, Porter and did not do that. I believe that is quite telling on his part and should give a hint to fans as to how we perceive players who seem like a fit.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

I get that. But what does he do if no other team wants to trade up and his first rounders are gone?

I suppose draft the highest graded player on his board.

I'm not suggesting that he needs to trade out or even wants to trade out of the first round regardless of the 5th year option, but if he's given that opportunity and his board doesn't match up and an alleged trade is value to him then I'd tend to believe he would do that.

I'm pretty sure many teams may not value certain players at that lower end of the first round and have no other options than to go ahead and draft whoever is highest on their board with consideration given to position need or best player available.

 

[broncosmitty]

I'm not implying that at all.

32 teams are slotted to draft in each round - minus compensatory rounds or forfeited picks (bounty gate first round, if memory serves me correctly).

We've seen Belichick and others trade out of the first-round numerous times as their evaluation of remaining players may not match up with their board for first round picks.

It's quite possible that a team wanting a QB in the top 10 picks of the 2nd round may want that 5th year option.

Brad is going to stick to his system and format.

Think the 9ers are short a pick this year now on account of not being able to add.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Think the 9ers are short a pick this year now on account of not being able to add.

Salary cap issue and I believe it's also a $5M fine added to the forfeiture of said pick.

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

Regarding the Sutton issue it appears that he could be placed on the NFL commissioner exempt list with pay. He could also later be suspended for x number of games without pay. DeShaun Watson and Chandler Jones issues both come to my mind. The latter was released from the Raiders a couple of years back; however it was his second violation within a certain time period.

Section lV in the below

https://nflpaweb.blob.core.windows.net/website/Departments/Salary-Cap-Agent-Admin/2022-NFL-Personal-Conduct-Policy.pdf

 

[Gulf of Brazil]

If Sutton is eligible for guaranteed monies only which is inclusive of his pro-rated bonuses, then that factors in as a 17,720,000M cap hit unless they go the route of post June 1 release to spread that out.

He has a guaranteed 2024 base salary of 9M plus the drawn out 8,720,000 signing bonuses.

2024 Cap hit $12,680,000.
Post June 1 release cap hit in 2024 $11,180,000.
leaving $6,540,000 for 2025 cap hit