UW producing talent but not wins

Logicallylethal · Feb 11, 2017

Since 2011 we've produced

Isaiah Thomas - Averaging 30 ppg this year
Terrence Ross - Top 10 pick
Marquese Chriss - Top 10 pick
Dejounte Murray - First round pick

Markelle Fultz - Unanimous #1 pick for this upcoming 2017 draft
Michael Porter - Currently rated as the #1 pick in the 2018 draft

I've only followed UW basketball since the Brandon Roy, Nate Robinson, Will Conroy days but during that time I can't remember UW producing this much top level talent.

Yet we can't even make the tourney. At what point do we let go of Lorenzo Romar?

AlaskaGuy · Feb 13, 2017

UW athletic dept. couldn't afford to pay Romar's buyout or he'd be gone.

WizardHawk · Feb 13, 2017

I think it's clear as day he's done after next season unless something unexpected happens like reaching the final 4.

I've never understood why he has never had the discipline to push defense at the level needed to get his teams over the top. Their teams have always left us wanting more on defense and it's so painful to watch now that even with a kid as electric as Fultz, I just can't watch their brand of basketball.

TheDayMan · Feb 13, 2017

WizardHawk said:
I think it's clear as day he's done after next season unless something unexpected happens like reaching the final 4.

I've never understood why he has never had the discipline to push defense at the level needed to get his teams over the top. Their teams have always left us wanting more on defense and it's so painful to watch now that even with a kid as electric as Fultz, I just can't watch their brand of basketball.

I feel like this has been the assumption for the last 3 or so years though. It's a perpetual 'yeah, but have you seen the class he's got coming in? We should at least wait and see how that goes.'

Dolemite censored · Feb 13, 2017

AlaskaGuy said:
UW athletic dept. couldn't afford to pay Romar's buyout or he'd be gone.

Romar is done after this season.

WizardHawk · Feb 13, 2017

TheDayMan said:
I feel like this has been the assumption for the last 3 or so years though. It's a perpetual 'yeah, but have you seen the class he's got coming in? We should at least wait and see how that goes.'

Oh I'm not arguing whether or not this should be the case, but it will be the case. He will have one of the top classes in the country and bring a lot of eyes to the program.

I believe his contract runs through 2020 and the last 3-4 years of decline are a clear reason why it's normally a bad idea to sign a coach for that length of time. So what has the school learned from the bind they are in now from this contract? Looking to do the same for Petersen. :lol:

I mean sure, it's a different situation, but binding your hands on such a deal isn't probably wise and really shouldn't be necessary. You weren't at risk of Romar bailing for a bigger school so why lock him up that long?

You combine a school that I believe is going to be seven million in the hole for this years athletic budget as it is and the impact a buy out with that much time on it would have, along with that insane class he is bringing in next year, and whether any of us like it or not he's probably back for one more year.

If it was up to me I'd let him go and accept you aren't going to have that class coming in. Take your lumps and start rebuilding now. Find some boosters to help with the buy out and getting a solid coach in and move on. It's beyond past time to do so.

TheDayMan · Feb 13, 2017

WizardHawk said:
Oh I'm not arguing whether or not this should be the case, but it will be the case. He will have one of the top classes in the country and bring a lot of eyes to the program.

I believe his contract runs through 2020 and the last 3-4 years of decline are a clear reason why it's normally a bad idea to sign a coach for that length of time. So what has the school learned from the bind they are in now from this contract? Looking to do the same for Petersen. I mean sure, it's a different situation, but binding your hands on such a deal isn't probably wise and really shouldn't be necessary. You weren't at risk of Romar bailing for a bigger school so why lock him up that long?

You combine a school that I believe is going to be seven million in the hole for this years athletic budget as it is and the impact a buy out with that much time on it would have, along with that insane class he is bringing in next year, and whether any of us like it or not he's probably back for one more year.

If it was up to me I'd let him go and accept you aren't going to have that class coming in. Take your lumps and start rebuilding now. Find some boosters to help with the buy out and getting a solid coach in and move on. It's beyond past time to do so.

I honestly don't really care either way. I'm not a big basketball fan in general, so I just casually follow. I don't know enough to make a strong argument either way. I just remember the 'next year's the year' excuse last year, and know it's been way too long since they've made the tournament.

mcnabb7542 · Feb 13, 2017

WizardHawk said:
Oh I'm not arguing whether or not this should be the case, but it will be the case. He will have one of the top classes in the country and bring a lot of eyes to the program.

I believe his contract runs through 2020 and the last 3-4 years of decline are a clear reason why it's normally a bad idea to sign a coach for that length of time. So what has the school learned from the bind they are in now from this contract? Looking to do the same for Petersen. I mean sure, it's a different situation, but binding your hands on such a deal isn't probably wise and really shouldn't be necessary. You weren't at risk of Romar bailing for a bigger school so why lock him up that long?

You combine a school that I believe is going to be seven million in the hole for this years athletic budget as it is and the impact a buy out with that much time on it would have, along with that insane class he is bringing in next year, and whether any of us like it or not he's probably back for one more year.

If it was up to me I'd let him go and accept you aren't going to have that class coming in. Take your lumps and start rebuilding now. Find some boosters to help with the buy out and getting a solid coach in and move on. It's beyond past time to do so.

Here's the problem though (believe me I thought he should've been shown the door two years ago)
Who do you replace him with? My second Love ( UNLV Basketball) had the same stuff last year, boosters get pissed about a head coach that can recruit talent, but it couldn't translate on the court. They up and fire him in December. All along they are targeting a coach, ( smaller school) they hire that guy who then bolts for another bigger program. So now booster are left holding their Johnson's while the program slips deeper into the unknown realm.....

I honestly think the AD is afraid or better yet can't find a possible replacement coach that can recruit like Romar!

WizardHawk · Feb 13, 2017

I'm not even sure if 'next year is the year' is even a thing anymore. Not in terms of expected results in the tournament. I've entirely lost any faith that this staff can push the kids to performing well enough on defense to reach anything more than the round of 32 even if they had the very top class in the country. I just doubt they can make headway.

WizardHawk · Feb 13, 2017

mcnabb7542 said:
Here's the problem though (believe me I thought he should've been shown the door two years ago)
Who do you replace him with? My second Love ( UNLV Basketball) had the same stuff last year, boosters get pissed about a head coach that can recruit talent, but it couldn't translate on the court. They up and fire him in December. All along they are targeting a coach, ( smaller school) they hire that guy who then bolts for another bigger program. So now booster are left holding their Johnson's while the program slips deeper into the unknown realm.....

I honestly think the AD is afraid or better yet can't find a possible replacement coach that can recruit like Romar!

Cohn is stuck between a rock and a hard place. No doubt. This is her biggest test so far as AD.

Are you suggesting it could actually be worse? Because right now they have probably the top kid in next years NBA draft and will finish in the bottom 2 of the conference. I really don't see where there's much room for actually being worse.

You can't let fear of the unknown stop you at this level. If it isn't working find the best option you can and go for it. If that doesn't work try again.

Find ANYONE that understands the basics of college basketball defense and is willing to enforce the concept of defense at all. A lot of talented kids come out of high school without real defensive skills. It has to be taught and must be enforced. Sit even your top player if they won't put that effort in on the other end of the court.

It isn't working and doesn't show any signs of getting better. Romar must go, but I have zero faith Cohn will pull that trigger with such a crazy class coming in next year. If he holds onto that class he's coming back.

CatsTopPac · Feb 13, 2017

I think Romar will be gone after next year barring something crazy like reaching the FF, or maybe the EE with Porter staying.

Romar is a UW guy and has the longest tenure in the Pac. That, his past relative success, and the Fultz/Porter combo is how he has lasted this long and how he will get through next year ( all that and the costly buyout). It also gives UW time to put the best package together for finding a replacement. UW has the potential to be a top CBB job with the recruiting base up there, the rivalry with Oregon and GU, and the rest of the Pac.

I have thought for the past few years now that UW's loyalty to Romar is costing them the ability to move to the next tier. They may not get back to back top 2 recruits again soon, but PNW is a hotbed for recruits for the taking every year.

Romar is a S16 coach at best. However, he actually got UW from the relative depths to the S16 with some regularity (not to mention some nice finishes in the Pac), and that got him a long contract. UW should have tried around 5 years ago to use that success and get a better coach who could capitalize on the area recruits and recent success of UW. The excitement in Seattle has cooled for sure, but the opportunity is definitely still there, imo.

If UW can get someone after next year who can keep the PNW guys up there and at UW, and coach them better than Romar, sky's the limit. I think a few coaches better than Romar would jump at that job.

WizardHawk · Feb 14, 2017

CatsTopPac said:
I think Romar will be gone after next year barring something crazy like reaching the FF, or maybe the EE with Porter staying.

Romar is a UW guy and has the longest tenure in the Pac. That, his past relative success, and the Fultz/Porter combo is how he has lasted this long and how he will get through next year ( all that and the costly buyout). It also gives UW time to put the best package together for finding a replacement. UW has the potential to be a top CBB job with the recruiting base up there, the rivalry with Oregon and GU, and the rest of the Pac.

I have thought for the past few years now that UW's loyalty to Romar is costing them the ability to move to the next tier. They may not get back to back top 2 recruits again soon, but PNW is a hotbed for recruits for the taking every year.

Romar is a S16 coach at best. However, he actually got UW from the relative depths to the S16 with some regularity (not to mention some nice finishes in the Pac), and that got him a long contract. UW should have tried around 5 years ago to use that success and get a better coach who could capitalize on the area recruits and recent success of UW. The excitement in Seattle has cooled for sure, but the opportunity is definitely still there, imo.

If UW can get someone after next year who can keep the PNW guys up there and at UW, and coach them better than Romar, sky's the limit. I think a few coaches better than Romar would jump at that job.

The problem with Romar is his system requires seasoned upperclassmen to work. He isn't the kind of guy that can build defensive skills off one and done kinds of kids. He relies on them learning it over a few years more organically and leans heavily off his seniors. Well, they don't have any right now. Dime is the only senior on the team and the couple of juniors they have are more bit players, not stars.

They had that mass exodus that is really haunting the program right now. They had to scramble to rebuild and ended up with no real seasoned guys in his system to help the lower players out.

Next year several of their core players will be juniors and the hope is they make some steps in this coming off season to make better gains on defense and getting off blocks and getting more dynamic.

No matter how many of those top 10 kids they bring in, they need those other players to set the tone on defense and until I see it I'm not going to believe they really can make the huge steps forward needed to make a deep run next year. They can score all over the place with Porter and the rest, but if they can't stop people they won't go far.

Romar is a coach of a bygone era that hasn't adapted to this age of fast development and only having one year with your super stars. They need to find a coach that can both develop and put to best use with one season wonders. Romar just isn't that guy.

CatsTopPac · Feb 14, 2017

WizardHawk said:
The problem with Romar is his system requires seasoned upperclassmen to work. He isn't the kind of guy that can build defensive skills off one and done kinds of kids. He relies on them learning it over a few years more organically and leans heavily off his seniors. Well, they don't have any right now. Dime is the only senior on the team and the couple of juniors they have are more bit players, not stars.

They had that mass exodus that is really haunting the program right now. They had to scramble to rebuild and ended up with no real seasoned guys in his system to help the lower players out.

Next year several of their core players will be juniors and the hope is they make some steps in this coming off season to make better gains on defense and getting off blocks and getting more dynamic.

No matter how many of those top 10 kids they bring in, they need those other players to set the tone on defense and until I see it I'm not going to believe they really can make the huge steps forward needed to make a deep run next year. They can score all over the place with Porter and the rest, but if they can't stop people they won't go far.

Romar is a coach of a bygone era that hasn't adapted to this age of fast development and only having one year with your super stars. They need to find a coach that can both develop and put to best use with one season wonders. Romar just isn't that guy.

Great points. I agree that whomever UW gets to replace him is going to need to be able to excel in the OAD era. His system does rely on upperclassmen. I'll say that freshmen (and OAD) can definitely learn defense, because Miller pulls it off (not that he doesn't have other glaring issues), but Romar is stuck.

Seattle is a recruiting hotspot and the UW coach will need to be able to get them and win with them. Romar isn't as strong at either as a UW coach can be up there.

pistlpete · Feb 14, 2017

So Romar is supposed to be this great recruiter - then tell me why when Fultz is out with a sore knee, Romar's answer are players like Greene and Johnson - barely decent PAC12 talent and Kingma, who would not start at SPU or Western ( he's a good young man - but clearly out of his league).

Once you get past Fultz, Crisp, Dickerson and Mattise T.... this team really dosen't have the players to compete.

So Romar gets out coached every game and doesn't recruit enought talent to make up for it....

Why is he still the UW coach - oh that's right, he's protected by his contract and Michael Porter Jr.

I'd bet next years team does not make it to the NCAA Tourney - they will only have one NBA lottery pick, last year Romar had two and couldn't get it done... why will next year be different?

Very hard to take...

CatsTopPac · Feb 14, 2017

pistlpete said:
So Romar is supposed to be this great recruiter - then tell me why when Fultz is out with a sore knee, Romar's answer are players like Greene and Johnson - barely decent PAC12 talent and Kingma, who would not start at SPU or Western ( he's a good young man - but clearly out of his league).

Once you get past Fultz, Crisp, Dickerson and Mattise T.... this team really dosen't have the players to compete.

So Romar gets out coached every game and doesn't recruit enought talent to make up for it....

Why is he still the UW coach - oh that's right, he's protected by his contract and Michael Porter Jr.

I'd bet next years team does not make it to the NCAA Tourney - they will only have one NBA lottery pick, last year Romar had two and couldn't get it done... why will next year be different?

Very hard to take...

I mean looking at the list of players he's had there, he's gotten some strong guys. He's certainly had some teams with talent enough to get past the S16. A dozen or so draft picks with a few lottos, and more to come is pretty strong compared to a lot of teams who have done more with less.

But to your point, he's also let a lot slip away. He's got enough in Washington and a few more on the west coast to have ranked teams every year. He's just not getting as many as he can, combined with not coaching them as well as he needs to.

Banned 10x · Mar 15, 2017

he's gone

Washington fires Lorenzo Romar as Husky men's basketball coach after 15 seasons

WizardHawk · Mar 15, 2017

Kind of surprised they had the balls to ax him, but to say a change was needed is way understating thing.

Paying him his full 3.2m buy out AND having to pay a new coach as well as reportedly raising the assistant pay to get in line with other Pac12 teams is a huge chunk of change from a program that had a 7m deficit last year.

So now they lose that incoming class they were so high on, are embarking on finding a new coach, and have added a huge amount of debt to a school already drowning in debt.

Great Dayne · Jun 19, 2017

You can't fire a black man no matter how inept they're at their job. You will be called a racist University and the libtards at UW don't want that. With the talent in WA alone there's no reason they shouldn't be a tournament every single year. Some of my favorite NBA/college basketball players have come through from WA st. and I've even played with several but UW lacks the coaching to make a consistent good team. LoRo uses outdated coaching system that he refuses to change and gets the old school type players that just don't work in today's game. Dude has stolen 10's of millions of dollars from this University when it could be going to either a better coach or improving the University.

TheDayMan · Jun 20, 2017

Great Dayne said:
You can't fire a black man no matter how inept they're at their job. You will be called a racist University and the libtards at UW don't want that. With the talent in WA alone there's no reason they shouldn't be a tournament every single year. Some of my favorite NBA/college basketball players have come through from WA st. and I've even played with several but UW lacks the coaching to make a consistent good team. LoRo uses outdated coaching system that he refuses to change and gets the old school type players that just don't work in today's game. Dude has stolen 10's of millions of dollars from this University when it could be going to either a better coach or improving the University.

CatsTopPac · Jun 20, 2017

Great Dayne said:
You can't fire a black man no matter how inept they're at their job. You will be called a racist University and the libtards at UW don't want that. With the talent in WA alone there's no reason they shouldn't be a tournament every single year. Some of my favorite NBA/college basketball players have come through from WA st. and I've even played with several but UW lacks the coaching to make a consistent good team. LoRo uses outdated coaching system that he refuses to change and gets the old school type players that just don't work in today's game. Dude has stolen 10's of millions of dollars from this University when it could be going to either a better coach or improving the University.

Is there a discussion going around that Romar's firing was racially motivated? I haven't heard a single thing in that regard.

Before Romar, UW was a decades long bottom half of the Pac program in basketball, save a couple S16s in the last 50+ years. Romar comes in and gets 3 S16s with like a half dozen conference or P12 tourney titles, and a nice crop of guys in the league. Again, compared to what Seattle was like before him, he has done very well. He's a UW guy and brought them from mediocrity to be a top-5 job in the Pac (imo).

Now, he needed to go, and he could have gone a few years ago. But that's only because he got UW to be a real contender and raised their expectations beyond him. It's a good enough job that Hopkins passed up the keys to the Carrier Dome.

Romar had a solid run but he did well enough that they realize that they could in fact be a mainstay in the top 1/3 of the Pac if they got a better coach, and they made their move to Hopkins. But they don't even sniff that realization if it weren't for Romar. He's the second winningest coach at UW behind their gym's namesake.

Aside from all that, I missed the racist conspiracy against Romar's firing.

UW producing talent but not wins

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