All-Time Roster of Non-HOF Players

[Omar 382]

How does it not? You're telling me that his durability, playing wise, isn't affected by the fact that the dude died shortly after his career ended?

What?

 

[jwolt92]

You're not going to hear much argument from me that he was a better hitter. Stephens was a great hitting SS, but why are we comparing a shortstop to a 3B again?

I'll be honest with you, before now I read that wrong. I saw it as Nettles at SS. Argument over

 

[Omar 382]

Raines for some reason is the lovable junkie.

Was Gooden on your staff?

No argument from me if he was.

He actually wasn't, but definitely could be. He's another one with a short peak

 

[jwolt92]

What?

Good answer. Solid response.

 

[broncosmitty]

Enter it, goddamnit!

It's Monday.

I'm not smoking any PCP on a Monday.

 

[Omar 382]

Good answer. Solid response.

lol

 

[broncosmitty]

LFTim Raines
DH Pete Rose
CF. Dale Murphy
RF. Strawberry
1st. Keith Hernandez
3rd. Darrell Evans
2nd Lou Whitaker
C bill Freehan
SS Tramm

I could gladly switch Larry Walker in for Staw.

But I don't want to.

 

[StanMarsh51]

Fair point, but I was also giving counting stats to prove that Stephens was without a doubt, a better hitter. Defense aside. Also give a nod to the fact that Stephens died at the age of 46 or some shit so I'm throwing durability out the window.

Then again, durability affects things like 162 game averages. Stephens was out of MLB at age 34 so he didn't really go through the decline phase he likely would've had he played until age 40 like Nettles did (which would've hurt his rate stats and 162 game averages).

Regardless it's all moot since they played different positions.

 

[Cedrique]

I think I'd put Thurman Munson in there, but I think that might be throwing durability out the window

 

[DragonfromTO]

Nettles is one of the best defensive third baseman ever. Stephens was good defensively, but not nearly as good as Nettles. Stephens may have been the better hitter (117 wRC+ vs. 111 wRC+) but he was bogged down by his last three seasons in which he was putrid. Nettles was more durable (Stephens had a shorter career) and they had identical power numbers.

I'm not laughing at the selection of Stephens over Nettles. You have a case, though I would take Nettles. I'm laughing at the process you used to declare him better (RBI's and batting average, lol)

One thing to consider with Stephens as well (and it's kind of something you have to handwavely decide the weight of) is that some of his best offensive seasons came while a lot of good players were off playing baseball at military bases during the war.

It's not like you can write him off as a wartime curiosity or anything, he was a very good player. But I think it's at least enough to be a tiebreaker in a situation where one is needed

 

[DragonfromTO]

I think I'd put Thurman Munson in there, but I think that might be throwing durability out the window

My first thought at catcher was Ted Simmons, but given the way that Omar has defined the question I think Torre is probably the "right" answer.

 

[navamind]

One thing to consider with Stephens as well (and it's kind of something you have to handwavely decide the weight of) is that some of his best offensive seasons came while a lot of good players were off playing baseball at military bases during the war.

It's not like you can write him off as a wartime curiosity or anything, he was a very good player. But I think it's at least enough to be a tiebreaker in a situation where one is needed

Very good point.

 

[Omar 382]

One thing to consider with Stephens as well (and it's kind of something you have to handwavely decide the weight of) is that some of his best offensive seasons came while a lot of good players were off playing baseball at military bases during the war.

It's not like you can write him off as a wartime curiosity or anything, he was a very good player. But I think it's at least enough to be a tiebreaker in a situation where one is needed

Yes, I was aware of that fact, but forgot to apply to aptly to Stephens.

On a side note, who do you think took most took advantage of the decrease in talent level in MLB during the war? I'd have to go with Augie Galan. From 1934-1942 he puts up a line of .276/.361/.404, good for an 18.4 WAR in 4,046 PA. He had a .357 wOBA and 110 wRC+ from that time.

Look ahead a year, and magically Galan catches fire. From 1943-1945, he hits .305/.421/.449 for a WAR of 17.4 (one win behind what he accumulate in 9 previous seasons) in 1,954 PA. He had a .414 wOBA and 146 wRC+ during that span. He also had the third highest WAR among batters with 1,500 PA.

 

[Omar 382]

LFTim Raines
DH Pete Rose
CF. Dale Murphy
RF. Strawberry
1st. Keith Hernandez
3rd. Darrell Evans
2nd Lou Whitaker
C bill Freehan
SS Tramm

Holy shit, I just done realized we couldn't agree on a single position. Are you doing this shit to spite me? All of yours are close but Dale Murphy, Keith Hernandez, and Bill Freehan? WTF

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yes, I was aware of that fact, but forgot to apply to aptly to Stephens.

On a side note, who do you think took most took advantage of the decrease in talent level in MLB during the war? I'd have to go with Augie Galan. From 1934-1942 he puts up a line of .276/.361/.404, good for an 18.4 WAR in 4,046 PA. He had a .357 wOBA and 110 wRC+ from that time.

Look ahead a year, and magically Galan catches fire. From 1943-1945, he hits .305/.421/.449 for a WAR of 17.4 (one win behind what he accumulate in 9 previous seasons) in 1,954 PA. He had a .414 wOBA and 146 wRC+ during that span. He also had the third highest WAR among batters with 1,500 PA.

I would give that award to Hal newhouser... He turned a good career into not just a HOF career, but a one of best all time careers...

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Holy shit, I just done realized we couldn't agree on a single position. Are you doing this shit to spite me? All of yours are close but Dale Murphy, Keith Hernandez, and Bill Freehan? WTF

My problem with your lists tend to be that you focus so much on who the best player is, you don't take into account R/L balance, Defense, lineup order skills, or speed enough IMO... I understand that you think some of these are over-rated...

Tim Raines IMO is a top 5 lead off man of all time.... and that includes HOF players...


1

 

[UK Cowboy]

LFTim Raines
DH Pete Rose
CF. Dale Murphy
RF. Strawberry
1st. Keith Hernandez
3rd. Darrell Evans
2nd Lou Whitaker
C bill Freehan
SS Tramm

Yep, Rose should be at the top of any list

 

[MilkSpiller22]

Yep, Rose should be at the top of any list

not yet sure if I agree... But haven't looked yet to disagree...

 

[UK Cowboy]

not yet sure if I agree... But haven't looked yet to disagree...

He played so long that his per season averages get diminished, but he had a 15-18 year stretch where he was fantastic

 

[Cedrique]

He played so long that his per season averages get diminished, but he had a 15-18 year stretch where he was fantastic

Exactly. If you're putting together a team you want to win, it starts with this guy