Broncos/Bears time to get back on track

[cdumler7]

Welcome to what I hope will be the start of the Broncos future with Brock Osweiler. This is a week full of story lines. We have Jay Cutler and the way he worked his way out of Denver. We have John Fox and Adam Gase who were let go from here. We have the benching of Manning and the start of Osweiler.

This week is full of mystery but it is one that honestly fills me with some hope that this season can still be salvaged. Manning with the way he has been playing just was not going to get us where we needed to go. Manning in his last 16 games played had 19 touchdown passes to 23 interceptions. So this wasn't just a recent development by any means. So with Osweiler we at least have some hope.

Now having said that as others have said this week I do think we have to temper some expectations. We have to view this like we would any new player coming in that one week is not enough to evaluate him. This goes both ways of whether he has a great week or a bad week. To me say he goes out and has a 250 yard 60% completion with 1 TD to 0 Interception type game that would be a great game depending obviously when and how that all happened. If it is all garbage time stats then not a great stat line but if it is had throughout the game and he helps keep the ball moving then yeah that is a pretty darn good first game with all the pressure he is under.

Alright so on to the Bears. I have watched their last 2 games. I'm planning on watching a couple more as the week goes on but for today this is what I have seen.

Offensively:
The Bears are very much running the offense we ran last year. They have a ton of WR screens or quick hits to the RB sprinkled in with some deep shots. Running wise they are pretty hit and miss like we were last year. They can get some nice gains but they can have a lot of 0 to negative yard plays as well from the position. Cutler has actually looked very good. He reminded me a bit of Rodgers moving around in the pocket making little adjustments to buy himself some extra time. Very impressive. He has some decent to very good weapons around him that make some nice plays. OL wise they are middle of the pack in my opinion. Nothing outstanding but not down right terrible either.

Defensively:
They are a Fox style defense. They are very disciplined to not give up the big play. They will allow you to dink and dunk down the field. Where I saw teams having the most success was the quick slants over the middle. The Linebackers do not have the speed or coverage ability to hold up for long over the middle. This is where I would attack them. They are also susceptible to the misdirection type plays. I do think our Bootleg plays will have some success. I can also see our run game have some success. They did pretty well at bottling up Gurley this past week but they pretty much were daring Foles to beat them and Foles played down right terrible. He threw off his back foot the entire game whether there was pressure or not and couldn't hit wide open players. So I think if we hit a few passes early and loosen them up the run game could really open up. They are giving up 4.6 yards per carry (27th in the league) so again I think we could have some success taking the pressure off of Osweiler.

Where they are weakest in my opinion is the front-7 on defense. The DL can get moved around and isn't always the best at getting pressure. It is at least very inconsistent. Again they also don't have the best speed in the front-7 either which is why they have been vulnerable at the edge some. I could see Hillman having a decent game this week with trying those zone stretch runs that we haven't had much of an opportunity for this year.

 

[cdumler7]

Injury report wise

Chicago:
Pernell McPhee and Eddie Royal did not practice today. Matt Forte, Hroniss Grasu, Alshon Jeffery, Shea McClellin, and Antrel Rolle were all limited because of injury.

Broncos:
DeMarcus Ware, Emmanuel Sanders, Peyton Manning, Antonio Smith, Owen Daniels, and Vance Walker did not practice today because of injuries.

The coaches do expect Sanders, Smith, Daniels, and Walker all to practice tomorrow though. Said they think there is a very good chance Sanders once again plays this week.

 

[cdumler7]

Broncos also made a roster move today and let Shelley Smith go in favor of Sam Brenner who plays Center. He has been the back up Center in Miami for the past couple of years.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

Hey cdumler, did you see the article from Ted Sundquist (former Broncos GM) in October where he talked about the reason why Cutler got traded by Denver? Most people assumed that Cutler just threw a hissy fit and demanded the trade when he heard that McDaniels was looking at Cassel, but that actually wasn't how it went down. Sundquist said that when Cutler and his agent met with McDaniels for the first time, McDaniels berated Cutler with a curse-filled rant. It was so bad that after just a few minutes, Cutler's agent stood up and had Cutler leave. Just do a quick google search and you'll see the article. It turns out that McDaniels never had any intention of working with Cutler. I don't think there's a QB in the league that wouldn't have demanded a trade after that. So Broncos fans should not hold a grudge against Cutler for the way he left Denver. He had no choice. McDaniels forced him out.

 

[cdumler7]

Hey cdumler, did you see the article from Ted Sundquist (former Broncos GM) in October where he talked about the reason why Cutler got traded by Denver? Most people assumed that Cutler just threw a hissy fit and demanded the trade when he heard that McDaniels was looking at Cassel, but that actually wasn't how it went down. Sundquist said that when Cutler and his agent met with McDaniels for the first time, McDaniels berated Cutler with a curse-filled rant. It was so bad that after just a few minutes, Cutler's agent stood up and had Cutler leave. Just do a quick google search and you'll see the article. It turns out that McDaniels never had any intention of working with Cutler. I don't think there's a QB in the league that wouldn't have demanded a trade after that. So Broncos fans should not hold a grudge against Cutler for the way he left Denver. He had no choice. McDaniels forced him out.

I have read some of it. You have to remember this is from the agent's perspective. From what I can tell Sundquist was not actually in the meeting but this is a he said/she said point of view from him. Also have to remember that Sundquist was fired when McDaniels was brought in so not like he has the most objective view of McDaniels. Listen I hate what McDaniels did to this organization but I also don't think he is completely to blame or that that story is 100% accurate. Beyond just Cutler leaving Denver you have to remember he then went to Chicago and completely ripped Bronco fans apart. So while maybe it is more McDaniels fault with Cutler and all that happened Cutler is not what I would call an easy person to work with either. Teammates, coaches, personnel people have all commented about how hard he is to work with. So this should show that there is some truth to the fact that Cutler has some fault in his handling the whole situation.

So yes I do hold grudge towards both Cutler and McDaniels. I think shipping Cutler out was honestly the best for the team. He has shown to be a very average QB. He has shown to be a headache for coaches and players alike. If we still had him then good chance we don't have the Manning years. Who knows where we are.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

In fact I'll post the link to the article...

Jay Cutler's rise and fall with Broncos, chronicled by Ted Sundquist

It's fine if Broncos fans still don't like Cutler, but I just want this to be cleared up. McDaniels never had any intention of working with Cutler, according to Sundquist. Everyone that assumed that Cutler threw a hissy fit was completely wrong. Not Cutler's fault that McDaniels was a MANIAC back then, lol.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

I have read some of it. You have to remember this is from the agent's perspective. From what I can tell Sundquist was not actually in the meeting but this is a he said/she said point of view from him. Also have to remember that Sundquist was fired when McDaniels was brought in so not like he has the most objective view of McDaniels. Listen I hate what McDaniels did to this organization but I also don't think he is completely to blame or that that story is 100% accurate. Beyond just Cutler leaving Denver you have to remember he then went to Chicago and completely ripped Bronco fans apart. So while maybe it is more McDaniels fault with Cutler and all that happened Cutler is not what I would call an easy person to work with either. Teammates, coaches, personnel people have all commented about how hard he is to work with. So this should show that there is some truth to the fact that Cutler has some fault in his handling the whole situation.

So yes I do hold grudge towards both Cutler and McDaniels. I think shipping Cutler out was honestly the best for the team. He has shown to be a very average QB. He has shown to be a headache for coaches and players alike. If we still had him then good chance we don't have the Manning years. Who knows where we are.

You're entitled to your opinion. I guess it all depends on whether you believe what Sundquist said. If he was telling the truth, then Cutler never had any chance of being McDaniels' QB. Knowing what a nutcase McDaniels was back then (I think he has mellowed some since then), I believe what Sundquist says.

Cutler certainly has had problems working with people in the past. Apparently that has changed this season though. John Fox has been raving and raving about Cutler's leadership this season. Heck Cutler has been seen hugging Fox and Gase after games. Seems like he has matured and is a completely different guy now. You can see it in his play as well, as he's playing much more intelligent football. Good for him.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

And of course cdumler it's also debatable that losing Cutler was the best thing. The Manning years were good but they did not get us a super bowl victory. Now he's finished. Cutler is still young enough that he COULD be a guy that helps deliver a super bowl win. He was an average QB under Lovie Smith and Trestman, but looks to be quickly developing into an above average QB under Fox and Gase. He's always had the talent to be a top QB. It's just a matter of playing more intelligent football and not taking dumb risks. This season he has stopped taking dumb risks but is producing well at the same time. So he COULD be on his way. We need to see him do it longer. He also looked pretty good when he played for Shanahan. Who knows what would have happened had Shanahan and Cutler stayed. It's possible that Cutler could have clicked with Shanahan just like he's clicking with Gase now. Cutler is a guy that needs good coaching.

I REALLY hope Osweiler is the guy. He has a lot of potential. If he does well, then it was for the best. But if he doesn't and we're stuck searching for a QB in the next few years, then a valid argument can be made that losing Cutler wasn't a good thing. Especially if he continues to play great under Fox and Gase.

This game is tough to predict. The Broncos have the better defense, but you don't know how Osweiler will respond in his first start on the road. Cutler has been playing the best football of his career. I can't ever remember him having 6 good/great games in a row in his career, like he's done since coming back from the hamstring. It's also a concern that the Bears need this game more than the Broncos do. They'e fighting for their playoff lives, but the Broncos can cruise to the division title. Often the more motivated team wins. So I give the Bears the slight edge and say they'll win a close game. The Broncos are my #1 team and the Bears are my #2 team, so I'd rather see Denver win. Should be a good game!

 

[randymon]

All the above regarding Oz, Bears D, etc is all contingent on the Broncos getting some semblance of a running game going forward. Brock will not be able to succeed vs any team regardless. Nothing will work unless they fix that. I don't care if you have Brady back there or anybody else, they will have trouble in till that run game improves dramatically. It won't be fair to Brock and although he can make more plays moving around than the old man, he will start forcing the ball and they'll be just as predictable on offense as with Peyton back there. Oz is more than capable of succeeding and producing points for this team and getting them to PO. But if they don't run the ball with consistency, nothing above even matters. Don't care where the Bears are vulnerable. If you can't exploit it, which is always dependent on a solid run game, then your in trouble vs any team in this NFL and doomed to go very far.

 

[cdumler7]

You're entitled to your opinion. I guess it all depends on whether you believe what Sundquist said. If he was telling the truth, then Cutler never had any chance of being McDaniels' QB. Knowing what a nutcase McDaniels was back then (I think he has mellowed some since then), I believe what Sundquist says.

Cutler certainly has had problems working with people in the past. Apparently that has changed this season though. John Fox has been raving and raving about Cutler's leadership this season. Heck Cutler has been seen hugging Fox and Gase after games. Seems like he has matured and is a completely different guy now. You can see it in his play as well, as he's playing much more intelligent football. Good for him.

See and I have heard that same story over and over with Cutler. The first year with a new regime everything is perfect. Reminds me of Terrell Owens where his first year he got along with everybody and usually had some of his better years in that first year or two. Then the relationship would sour though. For a long time the excuse kept being "well this coaching staff wasn't very good but this next one will definitely help Cutler get to that next level." Well this is his what 4th HC and I don't know how many OC's he's had. All of them when leaving have pretty much had bad things to say about Cutler. They usually said it in a more respectful manner as that is what you want out of those guys but none of them gave glowing reviews of Cutler and his attitude. So to me I have my doubts that this great relationship will last. Wait till he has one of those 3-4 interception type games. I'm hoping it is this week.

Again in the McDaniels and Cutler situation believe me I do blame McDaniels more in the situation. I would put probably 75% of the blame on him. I still think Cutler has never made things easy and had even voiced before McDaniels was hired how much he was upset with the Broncos for firing Shanahan so I think he was already showing signs he wanted out.

And as for the whole whether to have kept Cutler or not to me all you have to do is look at how many times Cutler has gotten his team to the playoffs. He has one season that his team has made the playoffs. While a QB isn't the whole team they are a big part of what can help get a team where they really want to go. Look at the consistency that Manning, Brady, Roethlisberger, and Rodgers get their teams to the playoffs. The teams change quite a bit from year to year but because those guys have such a big impact on the game they can play a huge role in why those teams stay consistently in the playoffs. So I don't think we can look at Cutler and think we would be any better off. Throw in he is the type of guy that is just good enough to think you could build a team around him but not good enough to consistently compete for a Super Bowl year in and year out. To me that is about that worst place you can be finishing 8-8 every year. At least if you stink you stand a better chance of getting that premium player. The Broncos ended up getting one of the best defensive players in the game with Von Miller when they had their terrible year. He has been a huge reason the Broncos have been a top-10 defense almost every single season since he has been here.

 

[iknowftbll]

^ You are probably right, Randy. But with Oz getting his first start, Kubiak being a run oriented coach, and the Bears being vulnerable to the run on defense, I expect the game plan to feature a lot of running. My guess is the team is going to stress this in practice all week. Hillman and Anderson look to be huge factors in this game. It's going to be huge.

As for Cutler, CD makes a good point. Regardless if the Sundquist perspective is true, Cutler didn't need to go to Chicago and trash on the city of Denver and the fans of the Broncos. For that I will always despise him and while I won't go so far as to wish ill on him, I've certainly not felt sorry for him with every sack and jarring hit he's taken in Chicago.

Regarding McD, while he was not ready to head coach when the Broncos brought him in, let's look at what good things he brought to the Broncos. We have DT. McD's collapse also put us in a position to draft Von Miller. McD isn't a bad guy, he just wasn't ready to be a head coach when the Broncos hired him. We vilify him and he did make some huge mistakes here, but McD is water under the bridge to me. Some good things came to the Broncos as a result of his time with us.

 

[Orange Crush77]

McD is an asshole who set this organization back. The dumb bastard even got caught cheating doing the same shit he learned under BB. F-him

 

[randymon]

^ You are probably right, Randy. But with Oz getting his first start, Kubiak being a run oriented coach, and the Bears being vulnerable to the run on defense, I expect the game plan to feature a lot of running. My guess is the team is going to stress this in practice all week. Hillman and Anderson look to be huge factors in this game. It's going to be huge.

As for Cutler, CD makes a good point. Regardless if the Sundquist perspective is true, Cutler didn't need to go to Chicago and trash on the city of Denver and the fans of the Broncos. For that I will always despise him and while I won't go so far as to wish ill on him, I've certainly not felt sorry for him with every sack and jarring hit he's taken in Chicago.

Regarding McD, while he was not ready to head coach when the Broncos brought him in, let's look at what good things he brought to the Broncos. We have DT. McD's collapse also put us in a position to draft Von Miller. McD isn't a bad guy, he just wasn't ready to be a head coach when the Broncos hired him. We vilify him and he did make some huge mistakes here, but McD is water under the bridge to me. Some good things came to the Broncos as a result of his time with us.

I like your optimism Cd but your basing this on Denver somehow pulling off a run game out of their hat which has been pretty non-existent existent since day one. Excuse my scepticism but seems hard to imagine that for some reason their going to fix that in one week. Magic dust to sprinkle on this Inept O- line or some curse on Bears D is possible I suppose.

 

[SpiritOf77]

McD is an asshole who set this organization back. The dumb bastard even got caught cheating doing the same shit he learned under BB. F-him

I don't actually think this, however, there have been times when it has crossed my mind that McDaniels was The Patsy here to set a rival organization back 10 years - maybe not initially, but later on ...

Mind you, I know that sounds nuts, but what if as time when on, and it was apparent he was failing miserably, he did some things knowing he had his old job in NE waiting for him that he could return to . .

I know, I know, ridiculous - - conspiracy nonsense ..... but he did some **** that was beyond comprehension, esp with draft picks and trading them away

 

[iknowftbll]

McD is an asshole who set this organization back. The dumb bastard even got caught cheating doing the same shit he learned under BB. F-him

Yes, he did and the team fired him. As for the cheating and the Pats...no further comment. McD's time with us did bring us some positives though and that's a fact that cannot be disputed.

I like your optimism Cd but your basing this on Denver somehow pulling off a run game out of their hat which has been pretty non-existent existent since day one. Excuse my scepticism but seems hard to imagine that for some reason their going to fix that in one week. Magic dust to sprinkle on this Inept O- line or some curse on Bears D is possible I suppose.

There are a lot of factors at play here. Oz is young and far more mobile than Manning. That can enhance the run game. He's got a nice deep ball, too. That can enhance the run game because the Bears won't be able to load the box. Oz shook off a few Chiefs defenders too, something we never saw Manning do. I can see the potential he brings to an offense that has been lacking all year. As many have noted: it would be hard for the offense to be worse. Even replacing INTs with incompletions is a vast improvement.

 

[AmericanTebowFan]

cdumler, I don't know if I agree that coaches have had bad things to say about Cutler after leaving. Believe it or not, Mike Martz only has good things to say about Cutler and predicted he would have a great year this season. He talked about how Cutler had pretty much nothing to work with on offense back then. Check out Martz's comments in this article...

Mike Martz: 'This could be a great year' for Jay Cutler - CBSSports.com

You definitely make some good points, but I do think Cutler has had a lot of bad luck in Chicago. Years where he had the worst OL in the league and no name targets to throw to. I think he did pretty well in a difficult situation. Less talented QBs would not have survived that. And he's also had some bad luck in only making the playoffs once. Like the year he was rolling towards the playoffs with a 7-3 record, but broke his hand making a tackle after an INT that wasn't even his fault. Another year he didn't make the playoffs at 10-6 because of a tiebreaker. He could easily have 3 or 4 playoff appearances with a little luck.

I just have a lot of respect for Cutler because he's incredibly TOUGH. Not many QBs would have survived the MASSIVE beating he took those years when they had the worst OL in the league. He took those beatings like a man. This season the doctors said he would likely miss 3 to 4 games with the torn hamstring, but somehow he came back after ONE week. John Fox and the players can't stop talking about how much they respect Cutler and how inspiring it was that he came back so quickly from a serious injury to lead the team to a good stretch. Cutler is just so tough and such a competitor. That's the type of player I really admire.

And as for the whole thing about Cutler trashing Broncos fans, I think that was overblown as well. Pretty much every player always said his own team's fans are the best. I've heard that a million times. So Denver fans shouldn't take it personally when Cutler said Bears fans are better. If he was still playing in Denver, he would say Broncos fans are better. I don't see what the big deal is.

 

[iknowftbll]

And as for the whole thing about Cutler trashing Broncos fans, I think that was overblown as well. Pretty much every player always said his own team's fans are the best. I've heard that a million times. So Denver fans shouldn't take it personally when Cutler said Bears fans are better. If he was still playing in Denver, he would say Broncos fans are better. I don't see what the big deal is.

It's common for a player to speak to the home crowd at a new team. But as I recall, Cutler went beyond that and proactively trashed Broncos fans. It was uncalled for. He got more fan support that any other QB since Elway. And that includes Plummer, a guy who actually made the Broncos relevant in his time in orange and blue.

 

[MileHigh64]

Bring on the Bears!

 

[WalkerBoh]

^ You are probably right, Randy. But with Oz getting his first start, Kubiak being a run oriented coach, and the Bears being vulnerable to the run on defense, I expect the game plan to feature a lot of running. My guess is the team is going to stress this in practice all week. Hillman and Anderson look to be huge factors in this game. It's going to be huge.

As for Cutler, CD makes a good point. Regardless if the Sundquist perspective is true, Cutler didn't need to go to Chicago and trash on the city of Denver and the fans of the Broncos. For that I will always despise him and while I won't go so far as to wish ill on him, I've certainly not felt sorry for him with every sack and jarring hit he's taken in Chicago.

Regarding McD, while he was not ready to head coach when the Broncos brought him in, let's look at what good things he brought to the Broncos. We have DT. McD's collapse also put us in a position to draft Von Miller. McD isn't a bad guy, he just wasn't ready to be a head coach when the Broncos hired him. We vilify him and he did make some huge mistakes here, but McD is water under the bridge to me. Some good things came to the Broncos as a result of his time with us.

McD can suck it. Sorry, but what little good he accomplished is far overshadowed by the bad. He created a toxic culture, and tarnished the organization when he got caught cheating. That little episode cost us, lest we forget. Good riddence.

 

[WalkerBoh]

I like your optimism Cd but your basing this on Denver somehow pulling off a run game out of their hat which has been pretty non-existent existent since day one. Excuse my scepticism but seems hard to imagine that for some reason their going to fix that in one week. Magic dust to sprinkle on this Inept O- line or some curse on Bears D is possible I suppose.

144 rushing yards against the Vikings and 160 yards rushing against the Packers weren't mirages. This team has shown it can pull it off.

And you're putting way too much importance on the run game. Patriots don't always have a strong run game, and they're a perennial playoff team. Now we might not be able to win the SB, but the season isn't going to suddenly go to crap because we don't run well. Finally, a QB capable of throwing a consistent deep ball will open things up more for the run game. So all hope is not lost here ;-)