Anyone think that Chip Kelly ...

[fordman84]

Here's what Walker brought Dallas.

Players/Draft Picks Received by the Dallas Cowboys
LB Jesse Solomon
LB David Howard
CB Issiac Holt
RB Darrin Nelson (traded to San Diego after he refused to report to Dallas)
DE Alex Stewart

Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1990 (21) (traded this pick along with pick (81) for pick (17) from Pittsburgh to draft Emmitt Smith
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1990 (47) (Alexander Wright
Minnesota's 6th round pick in 1990 (158) (traded to New Orleans, who drafted James Williams
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (12) (Alvin Harper
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1991 (conditional) - (38) (Dixon Edwards
Minnesota's 2nd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (37) (Darren Woodson
Minnesota's 3rd round pick in 1992 (conditional) - (71) (traded to New England, who drafted Kevin Turner)
Minnesota's 1st round pick in 1993 (conditional) - (13) (traded to Philadelphia Eagles, and then to the Houston Oilers, who drafted Brad Hopkins)

I just read Jimmy tried to trade Irvin too, to the Raiders, but Al Davis talked him out of it. Granted I read this on Wiki so take it with a grain of salt.

So without Minny Dallas doesn't have Emmitt, Woodson, Harper or Solomon.

I wonder if Darrin Nelson kicked himself in the ads for not wanting to play in Dallas?

I've heard that about Irvin as well. Really glad that is a trade that fell through!

 

[fordman84]

It was - by most accounts - patently obvious that it was a matter of time before the DJax situation would end up in TO-style drama in Philadelphia. DJax was simply unwilling to go along with many of the changes Chip made, and had already proven difficult to handle under Andy Reid. In the one season Chip and DJax were in Philadelphia - according to reports that came out later - the only ones that made DJax behave to some extent and not blow up during the season were Avant and Vick. And both those players would not be there in 2014, and everybody knew that: Avant was just a bad fit within Kelly's scheme, and Vick wanted another shot at starting, something he was unlikely to get in Philadelphia. So DJax was untenable within Philadelphia.

Agree with what you say. My point was that just because Chip didn't officially have the GM title, didn't mean he wasn't calling the shots in the draft room or on personnel moves.

 

[fordman84]

^^^Somebody's scrrrred.

I'm having an intelligent conversation with another intelligent poster. I don't think I'm the one that needs to STFU. Sit there quietly and maybe you will learn something.

 

[Iggloo]

I can't believe anyone is still questioning getting rid of Desean Jackson or Lesean McCoy.

Those guys are total tools as time has shown. Chip was right to show those guys the door.

But when Buffalo and Washington are restored to greatness due to these team players, I am sure our Dallas friends will let us know...

 

[Tgann69]

^^^Somebody's scrrrred.

Scrrrrd u may never understand that your QB was a rb when hit by Suggs.

Me too.

 

[fordman84]

I can't believe anyone is still questioning getting rid of Desean Jackson or Lesean McCoy.

Those guys are total tools as time has shown. Chip was right to show those guys the door.

But when Buffalo and Washington are restored to greatness due to these team players, I am sure our Dallas friends will let us know...

Who is questioning getting rid of them?

Go back to third grade and learn some reading comprehension.

 

[mall3013]

And Jimmy stole from Minny. Without Minny's trade Jimmy and Dallas don't win those SB's. I will be forever grateful for that.

THANK YOU MINNY.

This is very true and Im thankful that Jerah screwed that relationship up in Big D. I think JJ knew very well how to draft to suit his system. I think Chip is very similar to JJ in some ways. The fact that they are good friends and Chip gets some good advice doesn't hurt.

 

[fordman84]

This is very true and Im thankful that Jerah screwed that relationship up in Big D. I think JJ knew very well how to draft to suit his system. I think Chip is very similar to JJ in some ways. The fact that they are good friends and Chip gets some good advice doesn't hurt.

Chip isn't the wheeler-dealer that Jimmy/Jerry were. He keeps selling his prized pieces for late round draft picks and lesser players. Jimmy did the same, but had contingencies where the lesser players would turn to picks if they didn't stay on the roster. And Jimmy told everyone "don't fall in love with these players, they aren't staying". He knew how to get value for his players.

 

[DutchBird]

Agree with what you say. My point was that just because Chip didn't officially have the GM title, didn't mean he wasn't calling the shots in the draft room or on personnel moves.

Reports in the media strongly suggest that Roseman still had some serious influence on personnel decisions, as well as the draft - and that the notion of Kelly calling the shots before getting the GM title might be wrong (overblown). Note that the major front-office shake-up (with Roseman being promoted into irrelevance, and some of his disciples being dismissed) also happened only after the end of the last season. And what has come out in the media, Roseman was as much of a control-freak as Kelly, if not more so; and most people refer to the 2013 and 2014 drafts as Roseman's drafts (or heavily influenced by Roseman).

 

[Iggloo]

I don't think we will see the likes of a Hershel Walker trade again. But Chip's deals so far look pretty decent to me. Time will tell. It really will come down to injuries or lack thereof.

What's funny is Dallas fans questioning college coaches when their last three rings came from college coaches.

 

[fordman84]

I don't think we will see the likes of a Hershel Walker trade again. But Chip's deals so far look pretty decent to me. Time will tell. It really will come down to injuries or lack thereof.

What's funny is Dallas fans questioning college coaches when their last three rings came from college coaches.

Not sure how that is funny. One coach had success at one time. What is more funny is Eagle fans assuming that since a college coach did well for Dallas, it has any relevance on their own college coach.

Remember Jimmy won it all at the college level. Chip? Not so much.

 

[DutchBird]

Chip isn't the wheeler-dealer that Jimmy/Jerry were. He keeps selling his prized pieces for late round draft picks and lesser players. Jimmy did the same, but had contingencies where the lesser players would turn to picks if they didn't stay on the roster. And Jimmy told everyone "don't fall in love with these players, they aren't staying". He knew how to get value for his players.

This - again - seems to be as much projection and fantasy as reality. Where do you see the 'prized pieces sold for late round draft picks and lesser players'? Because somehow I am not seeing it that clearly.



Kelly has been wheeling and dealing as much as anyone in the league to get players he want, or extract as much for a player as possible. He has not been able to pull off a highway-robbery just yet (though Bradford might end up being that). But he has gotten a little here and there through trades (Bradford, Parkey, Alonso) through trades which were all clear upgrades over what was there, or plugged bigger holes.



DeSean Jackson: Apparently the Eagles tried to get him traded, but there were no takers (per IIRC Jimmy Kempski, who was the one who actually broke the story of the Eagles trying to get rid of DeSean).

LeSean McCoy: Traded a non-fit back for what two years ago was the Defensive Rookie of the Year (Kiko Alonso), and potential (still) super star LB. The value he got back: Massive upgrade for the defense (weakest part of the team), and cap space for two RB's that are a better fit for the offense than McCoy was.

Nick Foles: Bradford is a massive upgrade over Foles, it is not even close. That has become clear so far. There seems to be a reasonable chance that the Eagles have actually gotten a franchise QB for a mediocre QB+2nd round pick. There was no way in hell the Eagles would have gotten close to getting a QB with similar upside for a while.

Jeremy Maclin: The Eagles tried everything they could to get Maclin extended, but he refused, and left in FA to a franchise that offered to seriously overpay him. Not resigning him left opened up part of the cap space to get Murray, Mathews and Maxwell.

Herremans, Cole, Avant were all players that no longer fit, were overpaid for their worth or were on the decline. Same, more or less, with Mathis. For Boykin they got a 4th or 5th round pick (and Boykin would be gone after this season anyway). IIRC the picks he got for Bryce Brown were used in getting Shepherd, Rowe and Evans, who could well be the long term answer to secondary problems.

 

[fordman84]

This - again - seems to be as much projection and fantasy as reality. Where do you see the 'prized pieces sold for late round draft picks and lesser players'? Because somehow I am not seeing it that clearly.



Kelly has been wheeling and dealing as much as anyone in the league to get players he want, or extract as much for a player as possible. He has not been able to pull off a highway-robbery just yet (though Bradford might end up being that). But he has gotten a little here and there through trades (Bradford, Parkey, Alonso) through trades which were all clear upgrades over what was there, or plugged bigger holes.



DeSean Jackson: Apparently the Eagles tried to get him traded, but there were no takers (per IIRC Jimmy Kempski, who was the one who actually broke the story of the Eagles trying to get rid of DeSean).

LeSean McCoy: Traded a non-fit back for what two years ago was the Defensive Rookie of the Year (Kiko Alonso), and potential (still) super star LB. The value he got back: Massive upgrade for the defense (weakest part of the team), and cap space for two RB's that are a better fit for the offense than McCoy was.

Nick Foles: Bradford is a massive upgrade over Foles, it is not even close. That has become clear so far. There seems to be a reasonable chance that the Eagles have actually gotten a franchise QB for a mediocre QB+2nd round pick. There was no way in hell the Eagles would have gotten close to getting a QB with similar upside for a while.

Jeremy Maclin: The Eagles tried everything they could to get Maclin extended, but he refused, and left in FA to a franchise that offered to seriously overpay him. Not resigning him left opened up part of the cap space to get Murray, Mathews and Maxwell.

Herremans, Cole, Avant were all players that no longer fit, were overpaid for their worth or were on the decline. Same, more or less, with Mathis. For Boykin they got a 4th or 5th round pick (and Boykin would be gone after this season anyway). IIRC the picks he got for Bryce Brown were used in getting Shepherd, Rowe and Evans, who could well be the long term answer to secondary problems.

Homer spin aside, you got rid of your starting QB, RB, #1 WR, #2 WR and an all-pro Guard and in return you got an oft-injured QB and a LBer who could be great if he can stay healthy? Oh you also got an oft injured RB who was allowed to walk, as well as a RB who led the league in rushing but at the expense of an almost unmatched workload...who himself has had injury problems.

Almost your entire offense has been replaced. I'll also add, if Folk were your QB this weekend we wouldn't be hearing near as much about the Suggs hit.

At least this settles the "These aren't Chips guys" argument your fellow fan tried to float.

 

[eaglesnut]

I'm having an intelligent conversation with another intelligent poster. I don't think I'm the one that needs to STFU. Sit there quietly and maybe you will learn something.

No, you're not.

 

[fordman84]

No, you're not.

Just because you don't get it, doesn't mean everyone is stupid.

 

[eaglesnut]

Almost your entire offense has been replaced.

And? It was top 5 and it'll be top 5 again. Will that blow your mind?

 

[sonnyblack65]

Not sure how that is funny. One coach had success at one time. What is more funny is Eagle fans assuming that since a college coach did well for Dallas, it has any relevance on their own college coach.

Remember Jimmy won it all at the college level. Chip? Not so much.

Jimmy did and Barry won 3 National Championships

 

[fordman84]

And? It was top 5 and it'll be top 5 again. Will that blow your mind?

top 5 in plays run? Or in efficiency?

 

[DutchBird]

Homer spin aside, you got rid of your starting QB, RB, #1 WR, #2 WR and an all-pro Guard and in return you got an oft-injured QB and a LBer who could be great if he can stay healthy? Oh you also got an oft injured RB who was allowed to walk, as well as a RB who led the league in rushing but at the expense of an almost unmatched workload...who himself has had injury problems.

Almost your entire offense has been replaced. I'll also add, if Folk were your QB this weekend we wouldn't be hearing near as much about the Suggs hit.

At least this settles the "These aren't Chips guys" argument your fellow fan tried to float.

Well, the offense last year was dysfunctional - and in fact it was defense and ST that carried the team through the season, despite the offense.


Funny how you consider facts homerism. All of the points mentioned were either indisputable fact, or brought forward by various media:

QB: Foles was not getting the Eagles anywhere, and neither is Sanchez. When looking at the All-22's (and often already during the game) it was infuriating to watch Foles (especially) doing stupid things over and over again. And the chances of the Eagles ever being in a position to draft a franchise QB, unless completely destroying the future of the franchize. So they could have chozen to remain stuck in the middle of nowhere, or take a chance on a QB who has the potential to be that franchize QB.

RB: Often ignored is that McCoy was as heavily worked over the past seasons as any RB in the NFL. Some argue his level of play was already dropping off. It was also clear that McCoy's style of play was not working on offense, often putting the offense in bad positions by his choice to go for the home run, rather than just a few yards. IIRC McCoy led the league last year in negative runs, by a fairly wide margin. And quite a few of those runs had far more to do with McCoy than with the O-line not doing its job properly. Murray and Matthews are much better scheme fits.

WR 1: DeSean would have been untenable. Yes, he was a deep threat, but he also had and has a tendency to disappear in games. Seems Mathews is a very capable replacement for him, who in the end actually might be a better fit for the offense than Jackson. And - again far from homerism - the Eagles tried to trade Jackson, but there were no takers for him. Was that a certainty when he left? No - here the Eagles had some luck.

WR 2: Maclin, again, was overpaid by the Chiefs. It is not as if the Eagles did not try to re-sign him; he refused during the season, and Kansas just offered him way too much money for what he brought to the team (again, seems to be universal opinion). Overpaying for a CB was the much better option than to overpay for a WR - at least for the Eagles. BTW, his replacement in Agholor has looked pretty good so far.

LG: Again, no takers for a trade. And yes, it was clear there was a rift between Mathis and management about pay. Its biggest effect is on depth. Also there are some who argue that - again - Mathis was a liability in the pass-protection scheme the Eagles use. I think it also telling that so far there have been no takers for Mathis anywhere.


So yes, over a two year period, big parts of the offense have been replaced. Note also how - at least in the previous two seasons - the one comment from most was that Chip in many ways created a plug-and-play system. It was argued he could not make it work with the personnel he inherited in 2013, and somewhat the same in 2014. In both cases the scheme worked, it was (in 2014) the players not executing - most notably Foles, to a lesser extent Sanchez, and McCoy.

And yes, Kelly is (somewhat) gambling that he can keep players like Mathews, Murray and Bradford healthy. Based on the health of the Eagles over the last two seasons, that is a reasonable assumption (fewest injuries in the league, and it is not even close). It seems that - as far as injuries you can actually do something about go - the Eagles during his tenure have an excellent track-record. Nobody expected him to keep Maclin healthy, or Jason Peters, yet he did last year.

And as far as the 'these weren't Chip guys' go: None of them were 'Chip guys', as in guys drafted by Chip.

DeSean, in particular did not fit his culture. McCoy did not fit his culture and scheme, and not fitting culture is to a somewhat lesser extent also the case for Boykin and Mathis. Players like Foles, Maclin (refused to stay), Herremans and Cole were either not good enough and/or cap casualty. That said, those for definitely fit the Chip Kelly mould as far as the type of individuals they are.

And so far - for what is worth - the offense under Chip Kelly has looked quite good (especially scheme-wise), with the weakest so far being QB play (rusty Bradford, Sanchez being off), marching up and down on the defenses faced so far (including all week against the Ravens).

 

[Broncos6482]

Ask a few NFL Head Coaches about Chip Kelly. Bill Belichick will tell you without hesitation that Kelly is a football genius. He was the inventor of the "spread" offense and the "Hurry Up". He understands what is required to make certain things work flawlessly.

He wants a certain type player with a certain type of attitude and if a player doesn't want to play football the way Kelly designs his offense, he's gone.......like McCoy, like Foles.

I met him once. He's mesmerizing when he starts talking about football. It's like a movie you just don't want to ever end. He talks to his audience at a level they can understand and never does he ever try to make you think that he's smarter than you are.