more on scherf

[Sharkinva]

So if the goal is to take a good player no matter what position he plays, then why not Collins at 5? We need safeties and he is the best at his position.
As for if Scherff is a reach or not, you may not think so, but your not making the pick. That's scots decision. And my bet is that if he doesn't see him as a top 5 pick, he won't take him. Also, you are in the minority with that opinion. I bet less than 20% of the experts believe scheff is a top 5 pick. So I'm baffled as to why you take such offense when someone opines that he isn't worth it with the 5th pick?

Maybe, just maybe we take offense because every one seems to be basing his value off of Mock drafts and Pundits and refuse to accept the fact that MOST of these rankings on where a guy ranks in the top ten are based just as much off of perceived need and what they expect teams to take as they are off of actual players skills and ability. Case in point, how does a projected 3rd down pass rush specialist get ranked as one of the top five players in half the so called big boards out there except for the Redskins perceived need at OLB?? And do you really doubt that if we had parted ways with Garcon or Jackson for what ever reason, all of a sudden the WRs wouldnt be the popular pick for the Skins.

As I said before, you guys are acting as if we are suggesting drafting Morgan Moses at # 5 over the next Reggie White or Jerry Rice.

 

[j_y19]

As I've said multiple times, I have no issue with your opinions or stances. And i would have no issue if scot decides to take Scherff at 5. The point of contention I have is it appears that you are of the belief that even if scot doesn't deem scherff as a top 5 player, he should take him anyway. Now if he has him 6 or 7, no big deal. but if he has him 10 or above, that is a reach. And please don't me that so and so expert has him rated below ten, etc. Because these same experts are the ones that you have said are the lemmings that follow the herd. The only opinion that matters is Scot's.
So, as I have always tried to point out, I don't rate or evaluate players. I don't delude myself into believing that I have the time, tools, access, or experience in evaluating potential draftees. There is so much that goes into evaluating a player to be drafted that is way beyond watching him play. The background checks alone are a huge process. Im fairly confident that no one on this board has come remotely close to doing a true evaluation on any player. So I don't claim to know any player other than superficiously and if find it amusing when folks here say they know this player, etc. I'm more concerned with the process of deciding, not in the individual. If you get the process right, you get the right player.

 

[Sharkinva]

SO long and short, no one here has an opinion that matters unless it falls in line with most of what the media is saying.. but just in case Scot does deem Scherff worthy of the pick, you support it. But you dont think he will find Scherff worthy of the pick. And ultimately our opinions dont matter because there is no way we could come up with a reasonable opinion on the player because we dont have the time or resources of the scouts and pundits.

So basically we should just agree and fall in line??

 

[j_y19]

SO long and short, no one here has an opinion that matters unless it falls in line with most of what the media is saying.. but just in case Scot does deem Scherff worthy of the pick, you support it. But you dont think he will find Scherff worthy of the pick. And ultimately our opinions dont matter because there is no way we could come up with a reasonable opinion on the player because we dont have the time or resources of the scouts and pundits.

So basically we should just agree and fall in line??

Never said any of this. In fact, what did my first sentence say? I have no problem with you opinion or stance. I guess you didn't read that. I also have no idea what scot thinks of scherff. But I do not agree with you if your opinion is that he should take scherff no matter where he has him ranked.

As far as agreeing and falling in line......what line is that which I am espousing that you should fall in line with? My opinion is you stay true to your big board.

 

[Sharkinva]

Never said any of this. In fact, what did my first sentence say? I have no problem with you opinion or stance. I guess you didn't read that. I also have no idea what scot thinks of scherff. But I do not agree with you if your opinion is that he should take scherff no matter where he has him ranked.

As far as agreeing and falling in line......what line is that which I am espousing that you should fall in line with? My opinion is you stay true to your big board.

OK, maybe my sarcasm gene got a little out of hand. How ever i have said all along, if your big board is the only deciding factor, you run the risk of winning the battle to ultimately lose the war. I have also said, to me the difference between actual football players on your big board, with in 5 to 7 slots... you have GOT to take team need into account. And more importantly over all team impact. Its not logical to say well we think this player that would be basically a backup or a future pick should outweigh what by most accounts would be a starter on most teams from day one.

Now maybe you have not been pushing the just fall in line and shut up, but most have gone from Sherff in no way is worth a top five pick, to well you cant really pick a guy who might end up a guard at #5 to, well we dont think he is worthy of the pick because most big boards dont think he is a top five pick. Most big boards are heavily weighted by what they think teams will do. If you have not seen this trend, then I really dont know what to say.

 

[Sharkinva]

Brandon Scherff, Iowa
Measurables: 6-5, 319, 5.05
Fast Fact: Biggest hands in the draft at 11 inches (that's almost a foot)
Scouts Say: "Iowa just turns them out. He's a lot like (Bryan) Bulaga (of Green Bay and Iowa), but maybe a little better.'' ..."He's real tough, real strong and he can run for a big guy. He can also be a mauler. I like him.'' ... "He's real good. He can play left tackle and be good. He can play right tackle and be great.'' ..."He should be the first to go. He's a big man who can really move and he's tough as nails.''

2015 NFL Draft: Ranking the offensive linemen; is Brandon Scherff the best? | NJ.com

 

[skinsdad62]

So if the goal is to take a good player no matter what position he plays, then why not Collins at 5? We need safeties and he is the best at his position.
As for if Scherff is a reach or not, you may not think so, but your not making the pick. That's scots decision. And my bet is that if he doesn't see him as a top 5 pick, he won't take him. Also, you are in the minority with that opinion. I bet less than 20% of the experts believe scheff is a top 5 pick. So I'm baffled as to why you take such offense when someone opines that he isn't worth it with the 5th pick?

geez louise , you can call a guy a reach and say scotty knows best only if it supports your position

scherf happens to fill a need and he is a top 10 player overall


collins isnt even in the conversation as a top 10 player so why bring that stupidity up ?

i have seen scherf rising up the draft charts and he will continue to do so

i dont take offense to anyone disagreeing with me on scherf at 5 i disagree that its taboo to draft an OG there

and you are right , if he doesnt see scherf as a top 5 or close pick he wont take him but this is a opinion message board and we are asking for peoples opinions

perhaps you should hold a mirror up to your face when you say someone gets offended about disagreeing with a position you take because you arent exactly an angel in that dept

 

[Sharkinva]

By the way, my last post was just to point out that there are apparently Scouts that Think Scherff could be a good LT, a VERY good RT and likely an elite OG.

So exactly where do we lose if we make this pick aside from the phantom trade or the must be a play maker to be in the top five picks angle??

 

[skinsdad62]

As I've said multiple times, I have no issue with your opinions or stances. And i would have no issue if scot decides to take Scherff at 5. The point of contention I have is it appears that you are of the belief that even if scot doesn't deem scherff as a top 5 player, he should take him anyway. Now if he has him 6 or 7, no big deal. but if he has him 10 or above, that is a reach. And please don't me that so and so expert has him rated below ten, etc. Because these same experts are the ones that you have said are the lemmings that follow the herd. The only opinion that matters is Scot's.
So, as I have always tried to point out, I don't rate or evaluate players. I don't delude myself into believing that I have the time, tools, access, or experience in evaluating potential draftees. There is so much that goes into evaluating a player to be drafted that is way beyond watching him play. The background checks alone are a huge process. Im fairly confident that no one on this board has come remotely close to doing a true evaluation on any player. So I don't claim to know any player other than superficiously and if find it amusing when folks here say they know this player, etc. I'm more concerned with the process of deciding, not in the individual. If you get the process right, you get the right player.

first you say you dont have an issue with our stances or opinions then turn around and attack it

then you tell me you dont rate players but then tell me he isnt a top 5 player because he is a OG

if you dont rate players then what are you doing in this conversation ? everyone on this board rates players whether they admit it or not

you have your favorites just like everyone else whether you say it here or not

the only opinion that matters is SM's gee way to go out on a limb

i will support who he picks and if he picks an olb or wr or whatever it can be justified

but if i am collectively being asked my opinion on the draft and then i give it and i am in the "minority " and then attacked for it dont expect me to lie down on my ass and not defend it

i dont hide behind the SM knows best defense i give my opinion and i stand by it right or wrong

 

[j_y19]

OK, maybe my sarcasm gene got a little out of hand. How ever i have said all along, if your big board is the only deciding factor, you run the risk of winning the battle to ultimately lose the war. I have also said, to me the difference between actual football players on your big board, with in 5 to 7 slots... you have GOT to take team need into account. And more importantly over all team impact. Its not logical to say well we think this player that would be basically a backup or a future pick should outweigh what by most accounts would be a starter on most teams from day one.

Now maybe you have not been pushing the just fall in line and shut up, but most have gone from Sherff in no way is worth a top five pick, to well you cant really pick a guy who might end up a guard at #5 to, well we dont think he is worthy of the pick because most big boards dont think he is a top five pick. Most big boards are heavily weighted by what they think teams will do. If you have not seen this trend, then I really dont know what to say.

Need always affects your pick. In fact, I believe it affects your big board. OL is the #1 priority and, as such, will most likely influence where a player like Scherff lands on your board. Lets just say scot has Scherff at #10 on his board. We stay at 5. The real risk of taking Brandon at 5 isn't him flaming out, but the lost opportunity of other talent you passed up that will come back to haunt you over the years. But just because OL is the #1 priority, you don't forgo all other talent and needs to acquire a specific OL if their impact level doesn't justify the slot. WR has been mentioned as a potential pick and everyone agrees that we don't need a WR this coming year, per se. However, next year it is a very real possibility that either Jackson or Garcon are gone (maybe both). IF you have rated a player like White (example only) as a impact player in the mold of a Dez Bryant, and you have an opportunity to lock him up for the next 5 years and a relatively cheap price, you have to make that pick. That type of player does not come around often where you have a shot at him. High quality Gs can be found in multiples in very draft (and, yes, we have done a piss poor job of finding and developing them). This is where talent forgoes immediate need.

I will say what the others are beating around the bush, you don't take a OG in the top 5 unless the rest of the talent is just terrible. While you call it the sexy pick, the fact is a top 5 draftee should be an elite NFL player. So if you have the ability to draft an elite WR, QB, OLB, CB or LT, you take them 9 time out of 10 over an elite G. The reason being is that that elite talent is much harder to come by and has the ability to positively directly influence the outcome of the game with singular play. This is also why they command the big dollars at contract time. This does not mean that an elite G does not have an impact, but they are a support player and rarely do you see a G win a game with a singular play.

 

[j_y19]

first you say you dont have an issue with our stances or opinions then turn around and attack it

then you tell me you dont rate players but then tell me he isnt a top 5 player because he is a OG

if you dont rate players then what are you doing in this conversation ? everyone on this board rates players whether they admit it or not

you have your favorites just like everyone else whether you say it here or not

the only opinion that matters is SM's gee way to go out on a limb

i will support who he picks and if he picks an olb or wr or whatever it can be justified

but if i am collectively being asked my opinion on the draft and then i give it and i am in the "minority " and then attacked for it dont expect me to lie down on my ass and not defend it

i dont hide behind the SM knows best defense i give my opinion and i stand by it right or wrong

I've never said Scherff is not a top 5 pick. What I've said all along is that if Scot doesn't rate him has a top 5 ( or damn near close), then you don't reach for him. As I said above, I have no idea where he falls for the reasons I stated. I don't have a favorite, other than trading back because it appears that those players most likely available to us all have questions. I came into the conversation when I saw posters state that there isn't a value difference between the 5th pick and the 10th pick, which is just inaccurate. There is a large value difference. This is why you don't reach. We are so void of talent and playmakers that there isn't really a position that we can't use elite talent going forward into the future, even if it's not a need today. My concern is building the team strategically for many years, not just filling an immediate need this year at all costs.

 

[RedskinzDan]

This does not mean that an elite G does not have an impact, but they are a support player and rarely do you see a G win a game with a singular play.

But a bad G can loose a game by missing a key block causing a sack/fumble. Something we have see too much of for too long.

I really hope we find a way to trade down for more picks, getting two OL with those picks. But if we have to stay at 5, Sherff is the smart pick.

 

[j_y19]

But a bad G can loose a game by missing a key block causing a sack/fumble. Something we have see too much of for too long.

I really hope we find a way to trade down for more picks, getting two OL with those picks. But if we have to stay at 5, Sherff is the smart pick.

I agree. We need to upgrade, but history has proven that you can find a very good G in rounds 2-4, not withstanding that this franchise has not been able to do that over the last 10 years. But that's a reflection on the one picking our talent, not on the available talent in those rounds.

 

[Lonewate44]

So you beleive all of rg3s issues were the result of a poor OL? Sorry, but he could have had the hogs as his OL last year and he would have still stunk. His issues are that he doesn't throw the ball soon enough and he can't read a defense. He has never had to throw to receivers before they make their cuts, his receivers in college were wide open because the defense was chasing him around.

No I dont believe all of RGIII's issue are the oline...what you stated is correct.....however...when you have a player learning these those things you pointed out.....I think it would make his transition easier if her had a second or 2 to process while in the pocket.....the more time he has in the pocket without seeing a big bully coming in his face thru the RG....or around the tackle... would make it easier on him

 

[Sharkinva]

I agree. We need to upgrade, but history has proven that you can find a very good G in rounds 2-4, not withstanding that this franchise has not been able to do that over the last 10 years. But that's a reflection on the one picking our talent, not on the available talent in those rounds.

So we should base the move off of history over all and expect we can find the players we need in the 2nd or later round. And pay no attention to the fact that this teams OWN history has been the exact opposite because after all we have a new guy picking the players now. I get having faith in our new GM... but I guess we will see in eight days or so.

 

[Lonewate44]

So we should base the move off of history over all and expect we can find the players we need in the 2nd or later round. And pay no attention to the fact that this teams OWN history has been the exact opposite because after all we have a new guy picking the players now. I get having faith in our new GM... but I guess we will see in eight days or so.

History can be a great indicator...however..History has no bearing on the future....Anything can happen...A team can turn it around and go against history.....especially in Sports.......

I feel that what makes OUR own history irrevelant is the fact that we now have a true Football mind in COMPLETE charge and Danny boy is sitting back letting him do his thing......

Look... I have ZERO problems taking Sherf with the 5 pick...I also have no problems dropping lower in the 1st and picking up additional Picks.....So far I am VERY impressed with what Scot has Done....is doing and am willing to defer to his judgement on the draft

 

[Sharkinva]

History can be a great indicator...however..History has no bearing on the future....Anything can happen...A team can turn it around and go against history.....especially in Sports.......

I feel that what makes OUR own history irrevelant is the fact that we now have a true Football mind in COMPLETE charge and Danny boy is sitting back letting him do his thing......

Look... I have ZERO problems taking Sherf with the 5 pick...I also have no problems dropping lower in the 1st and picking up additional Picks.....So far I am VERY impressed with what Scot has Done....is doing and am willing to defer to his judgement on the draft

Wate... I get what you are saying. But the whole faith in Scot thing is a cop out to a degree.

We all have a preference as to what we think the team should do or who we think the team should pick. And we all have our reasons. At the end of the day Scot will do what Scot is going to do. Some of us will agree, and some wont. And every one sitting here saying well I dont think this player or that player is worth the pick but if Scot says it Im ok.. .thats called hedging ones bet.

Now most of what I have seen as reasons for NOT taking the best O-lineman in this draft have little to do with his ability and more to do with preconceptions of what we can and cannot draft with the fifth pick. I admit our new Gm is supposed to be some kind of Guru, but I would be willing to bet that IF he makes the Scherff pick, some will silently stew about the "Value" we left on the table or the PLAY Maker we could have drafted with the pick.

At the end of the day we will draft players, And while I dont expect a large outcry either way because every one is still in the afterglow of a new GM, there will be some disagreements im sure.

 

[redskinsfan]

There is also the realization that there is no clear cut candidate for us at 5. Those that will most likely be available to us at 5 have questions, just like those available to us if we trade back to mid round. So why not trade back, pick up additional high round pick(s)?

 

[skinsdad62]

Wate... I get what you are saying. But the whole faith in Scot thing is a cop out to a degree.

We all have a preference as to what we think the team should do or who we think the team should pick. And we all have our reasons. At the end of the day Scot will do what Scot is going to do. Some of us will agree, and some wont. And every one sitting here saying well I dont think this player or that player is worth the pick but if Scot says it Im ok.. .thats called hedging ones bet.

Now most of what I have seen as reasons for NOT taking the best O-lineman in this draft have little to do with his ability and more to do with preconceptions of what we can and cannot draft with the fifth pick. I admit our new Gm is supposed to be some kind of Guru, but I would be willing to bet that IF he makes the Scherff pick, some will silently stew about the "Value" we left on the table or the PLAY Maker we could have drafted with the pick.

At the end of the day we will draft players, And while I dont expect a large outcry either way because every one is still in the afterglow of a new GM, there will be some disagreements im sure.

you are to kind shark . saying whatever scotty decides is a cop out because you dont have the "guts " to say what you believe but will argue with some one who does

and i agree i dont get that scherf cant play o/line , i get a history lesson ( a cherry picked one ) and some mythical "value " i coulda woulda shoulda had if we traded back even though the debate stems from not being able to trade back

scherf flaws are more real then the flavor of the day OLBS flaws is another laughable point

scotty isnt going to do one thing i think he should as far as the draft goes and i accept that .

what i dont accept is a couple of people here who feel i have to be a DR of football scoutology to research a pick and make a call on one

 

[Lonewate44]

Wate... I get what you are saying. But the whole faith in Scot thing is a cop out to a degree.

We all have a preference as to what we think the team should do or who we think the team should pick. And we all have our reasons. At the end of the day Scot will do what Scot is going to do. Some of us will agree, and some wont. And every one sitting here saying well I dont think this player or that player is worth the pick but if Scot says it Im ok.. .thats called hedging ones bet.

Now most of what I have seen as reasons for NOT taking the best O-lineman in this draft have little to do with his ability and more to do with preconceptions of what we can and cannot draft with the fifth pick. I admit our new Gm is supposed to be some kind of Guru, but I would be willing to bet that IF he makes the Scherff pick, some will silently stew about the "Value" we left on the table or the PLAY Maker we could have drafted with the pick.

At the end of the day we will draft players, And while I dont expect a large outcry either way because every one is still in the afterglow of a new GM, there will be some disagreements im sure.

Well I for 1 would rather have Sherif at 5 then an OLB....there i said it...however.....If he trades back and gets additional picks and still address the Ol...I will be fine with that.