2022 NBA Offseason thread

[Stakesarehigh]

Strongly disagree there.

Again, I love Klay. He is the ideal complimentary player. Does (or did) everything well, doesn’t dominate the ball and can fit with ANYONE.

He was a top 15 player in his peak and his impact on teams is easy to see.

But sorry, you take all player off their teams and have the GMs do a redraft.

0 GMs are drafting peak Klay over peak AD and Lillard. AD and Lillard were MVP candidates at their peaks. It is just a different level.

It is a really easy call too.

Put Klay in NO and AD in GS and we aren’t having this conversation.

Yep.

I get that it is hard to ignore things such as championships but they are relative in a lot of ways.

It's why Russell is the most overrated player in nba history

 

[thunderc]

Yep.

I get that it is hard to ignore things such as championships but they are relative in a lot of ways.

It's why Russell is the most overrated player in nba history

His stats are skewed a bit because of the rings but I strongly disagree on most overrated. Russell’s defense is the only reason we don’t hear more about Wilt.

 

[bksballer89]

Camp in 2 weeks
Season opener in 5 weeks

 

[Stakesarehigh]

His stats are skewed a bit because of the rings but I strongly disagree on most overrated. Russell’s defense is the only reason we don’t hear more about Wilt.

He was an incredible defensive player. I'd still put him top 50. He's not a top 5 or 10 player and yet everyone puts him there.

 

[Mecca]

Strongly disagree there.

Again, I love Klay. He is the ideal complimentary player. Does (or did) everything well, doesn’t dominate the ball and can fit with ANYONE.

He was a top 15 player in his peak and his impact on teams is easy to see.

But sorry, you take all player off their teams and have the GMs do a redraft.

0 GMs are drafting peak Klay over peak AD and Lillard. AD and Lillard were MVP candidates at their peaks. It is just a different level.

It is a really easy call too.

Put Klay in NO and AD in GS and we aren’t having this conversation.

Nope.

Klay is the better shooter.

Klay is the better defender.

Dame is the volume scorer, clearly better at creating.

These guys aren't comparable on a basic level.

They don't play the same position.

They aren't the same size.

They don't have the same team responsibilities.

Lillard is comparable to guys like Kyrie and Mitchell.

You can line them up side by side and EASILY deduce who is best because they do the same thing.

Same for guys like Klay and Mikal Bridges.

But, no matter how many times either of us state to the contrary, neither of us will change our minds because we clearly value different things when comparing guys that are not in the same category.

Again: I'd go Howard or Gasol over AD and Klay over Dame.

I'm a-okay if you see it different.

You should be as well.

 

[Mecca]

He was an incredible defensive player. I'd still put him top 50. He's not a top 5 or 10 player and yet everyone puts him there.

Ultimate winner and being one of the best players ever is not the same thing.

 

[bksballer89]

Nope.

Its not the rings.

Klay is the better shooter.

Klay is the better defender.

Dame is the volume scorer, clearly better at creating.

These guys aren't comparable on a basic level.

They don't play the same position.

They aren't the same size.

They don't have the same team responsibilities.

Lillard is comparable to guys like Kyrie and Mitchell.

You can line them up side by side and EASILY deduce who is best because they do the same thing.

Same for guys like Klay and Mikal Bridges.

But, no matter how many times either of us state to the contrary, neither of us will change our minds because we clearly value different things when comparing guys that are not in the same category.

Again: I'd go Howard or Gasol over AD and Klay over Dame.

I'm a-okay if you see it different.

You should be as well.

Howard was by far the biggest snub

 

[Mecca]

Howard was by far the biggest snub

Absolutely.

He was left off for non-basketball reasons.

@tlance has tunnel vision.

Dame and AD's resumes are not done.

Both guys are clearly uber talented enough to make the top 75 when it's all said and done.

But, they don't deserve to be there NOW.

Pau, Dwight, Alex English and Klay have better resumes NOW.

If you wanna project the if's and maybes, sure.

But, right now...no.

Right now, is Dame even ahead of T-Mac?

 

[Stakesarehigh]

Ultimate winner and being one of the best players ever is not the same thing.

As long as one can differentiate it that way I agree. But we often hear him thrown in the convo with Kareem, MJ, and Lebron.

 

[thunderc]

As long as one can differentiate it that way I agree. But we often hear him thrown in the convo with Kareem, MJ, and Lebron.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen him put in that conversation, perhaps it’s happened though.

 

[Mecca]

As long as one can differentiate it that way I agree. But we often hear him thrown in the convo with Kareem, MJ, and Lebron.

I known people don't like to be lumped into categories.

But, I'm going to do it anyway because it's true....lol

Only SOME Celtics fans and Octogenarian.

I try my best to stay out of debates that predate players in the 1980's.

I tend to lean along the lines of JJ Redick.

There were some elite guys.

But, mostly plumbers and bus drivers.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Dame is a better scorer.

We don't know what Klay could have been, pre-injury, as the #1 option.

The man is a top 5 shooter of all time.

Burning down the nets would not have been a problem.

But, he was also a good defender who took on the oppositions best backcourt player, on both sides of the ball.

So, no.

I said what I said.

Klay has had the better career.

Klay was the better all around player.

This is Tim Duncan vs. Karl Malone using midgets.

How many of us are taking Pedo-Karl as the better player?

Probably zero.

The one thing I will say is Timmy was a #1 on those teams. Klay wasn’t.

 

[Mecca]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen him put in that conversation, perhaps it’s happened though.

Unfortunately, it happens.

Very select groups.

Not trying to be disrespectful.

But, he was Ben Wallace...imo

It's not his fault competition wasn't up to snuff.

But, he played Wilt.

Team and Individual success can be easily separated when you play the same position.

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen him put in that conversation, perhaps it’s happened though.

Literally all the time. He's constantly in top 10 debates and even top 5

 

[Mecca]

The one thing I will say is Timmy was a #1 on those teams. Klay wasn’t.

Totally agree.

But, Timmy also played with other 20ppg players.

So, like Klay.....he didn't need to put up 30 ppg to win.

He didn't need to launch 20 plus shots a game.

He had a great supporting cast.

But, he most certainly could have.

Portland had CJ.

But, they basically built their teams around Dame that forced him into the Iverson role.

Do I believe Klay could be a #1?

Probably not on a great team.

But, the top 75 is not limited to #1 options only.

 

[Shanemansj13]

Totally agree.

But, Timmy also played with other 20ppg players.

So, like Klay.....he didn't need to put up 30 ppg to win.

He didn't need to launch 20 plus shots a game.

He had a great supporting cast.

But, he most certainly could have.

Portland had CJ.

But, they basically built their teams around Dame that forced him into the Iverson role.

Do I believe Klay could be a #1?

Probably not on a great team.

But, the top 75 is not limited to #1 options only.

I'm not going to argue Lillard and AD are the better players on an all-time list bc I don't think that is true but if we are talking about in their prime....no question about it they were better and it isn't close. I think more people would vote AD over Klay all-time than Lillard over Klay though.
Also, on the Timmy vs Klay. Timmy was an all-time defensive player. Klay made one all-NBA defensive team. The eye test says he was much better than that but can't deny it.
Watching Klay over the years, I don't think he can be a #1 especially not on a championship team but AD + LIllard weren't either. Do I think KLay could be a #1 on a playoff team? Possibly but I don't see him putting up 25-27 ppg. I guess it's possible but his game isn't suitable to be a #1 unlike Pippen, who could be imo

 

[Black Adam]

Hey Gigi aka @SMOKEY95 how are you today?

LMAO is that who he is...?

 

[Mecca]

I'm not going to argue Lillard and AD are the better players on an all-time list bc I don't think that is true but if we are talking about in their prime....no question about it they were better and it isn't close. I think more people would vote AD over Klay all-time than Lillard over Klay though.
Also, on the Timmy vs Klay. Timmy was an all-time defensive player. Klay made one all-NBA defensive team. The eye test says he was much better than that but can't deny it.
Watching Klay over the years, I don't think he can be a #1 especially not on a championship team but AD + LIllard weren't either. Do I think KLay could be a #1 on a playoff team? Possibly but I don't see him putting up 25-27 ppg. I guess it's possible but his game isn't suitable to be a #1 unlike Pippen, who could be imo

Yeah, concede that point.

I used Duncan vs. Malone as a example of why ones stats don't necessarily tell the story of who is actually better.

Malone had the better stats.

Timmy was the better PLAYER.

I wasn't intentionally inferring that Klay and Timmy are comparable.

Only that I value Thompson over Dame for the same reason I take Duncan over Malone.

Karl is the 3 rd leading scorer in NBA History, no slouch.

But, he's not Dumcan.

As for the list....

Of all the alleged snubs, Howard, English, Mcgrady , Pau and Bosh give me pause.

I always forget about Bosh because he sacrificed self for team and he gets punished for it.

 

[The Q]

Yeah, concede that point.

I used Duncan vs. Malone as a example of why ones stats don't necessarily tell the story of who is actually better.

Malone had the better stats.

Timmy was the better PLAYER.

I wasn't intentionally inferring that Klay and Timmy are comparable.

Only that I value Thompson over Dame for the same reason I take Duncan over Malone.

Karl is the 3 rd leading scorer in NBA History, no slouch.

But, he's not Dumcan.

As for the list....

Of all the alleged snubs, Howard, English, Mcgrady , Pau and Bosh give me pause.

I always forget about Bosh because he sacrificed self for team and he gets punished for it.

View attachment 308160

Malones metrics are elite

Without the Jordan rules people would put a lot more spect on his name

 

[Stakesarehigh]

I'm not going to argue Lillard and AD are the better players on an all-time list bc I don't think that is true but if we are talking about in their prime....no question about it they were better and it isn't close. I think more people would vote AD over Klay all-time than Lillard over Klay though.
Also, on the Timmy vs Klay. Timmy was an all-time defensive player. Klay made one all-NBA defensive team. The eye test says he was much better than that but can't deny it.
Watching Klay over the years, I don't think he can be a #1 especially not on a championship team but AD + LIllard weren't either. Do I think KLay could be a #1 on a playoff team? Possibly but I don't see him putting up 25-27 ppg. I guess it's possible but his game isn't suitable to be a #1 unlike Pippen, who could be imo

Are we talking Tim Duncan? Please tell me it's Hardaway or something