The Batman (2022)

[Clayton]

I have to say that I think I've seen all of the main movies and this is definitely my favorite Crow movie.

 

[Clayton]

Anyways, this is a really well made movie.

'Something in the Way' is not something I'd think I'd see in a movie after Jarhead. Its..um.. memorable in that movie.

Some spoilers ahead maybe but it's in the topic title so..

Acting is great. Some scenes are perfect. Especially in the first act. Even had a really effective 'triple' joke with Batman entering the club on three separate occasions.

Movie gets weaker as it goes. Batman realizing that he inspires incels is weird. They created a long dark movie to say that Batman shouldn't be dark. Aka the same place Batman was at before the movie. Catwoman leaving is very unsatisfying.

Probably my third favorite behind the first two Nolan movies

 

[Clayton]

I'm talking to myself here but since I can't edit I'll post some more thoughts as there is a lot to unpack.

Spoiler

I'd say with the themes of the movie, Batman's relationship with (Lt) Gordon hurts the movie. The movie is about a corrupt system and a villain who is an orphan inspiring a bunch of people who felt ignored by the system. Opening scene has Batman saving a guy that almost got beat up by a gang. Batman being on the side of the 'good guys of the law' leaves any reveals at the end redundant. We already know Batman is going to do the right thing and its just kinda boring to see him do it. Batman being 'good' throughout the movie hurts it imo.

I guess my biggest hot take here is that Paul Dano actually wasn't a good Riddler. I do like him as an actor and he played a very interesting character but I dont think it was very effective once the reveal of the final plan came. I like the idea of him acting a bit like the Joker when he had his mask on and sent out all of his messages. He used fear as part of his game. Very 'on brand'. The problem is that the scene where he gets caught and gets his one on one with Batman isn't even remotely as good as the scene in Dark Knight where Ledger reveals his plan and talks to Batman with his 'we're the same' speeches. In the Dark Knight, the Joker does whatever he can for Batman to maintain his secret identity as a major plot reversal because the Joker loves the idea of Batman. One of the plot twists in Batman 2022 is that the Riddler seems to imply to he knows Bruce Wayne is Batman but its actually just a coincidence that Batman eventually has to wait out. This is less interesting to me than the Dark Knight twist but its made worse by Dano hamming it up. The Riddler should be crazy but not so crazy that people wouldn't have immediately pegged him as crazy years ago. I was indifferent about the reveal of the Joker because the Riddler was already crossing into Joker territory with his role the whole movie.

The animated series probably would've ended this with Alfred telling Batman the riddle about a friend after Catwoman left. That would've been the way to end it, imo.

I guess I would probably have Mask of the Phantasm as a better Batman movie, too, although not Under the Red Hood or any of the others. Batman 2022 is a really well made movie. It just doesn't stick the landing for me.

 

[Duffman]

Batman realizing that he inspires incels is weird. They created a long dark movie to say that Batman shouldn't be dark. Aka the same place Batman was at before the movie.

I don't think that was the message, at the beginning Batman's priorities were to save the city by causing fear in the criminals, at the end he realized the actual way to save the city was to cause hope in the citizens. In that moment where the criminal said he was vengeance that clicked something in Batman's head that he wasn't going about crime fighting the right way. He can still do things the way he did before(he's still gonna beat people up) but to go about it in a different way. He can still be dark it's just now that's not all he is.

 

[Clayton]

I don't think that was the message, at the beginning Batman's priorities were to save the city by causing fear in the criminals, at the end he realized the actual way to save the city was to cause hope in the citizens. In that moment where the criminal said he was vengeance that clicked something in Batman's head that he wasn't going about crime fighting the right way. He can still do things the way he did before(he's still gonna beat people up) but to go about it in a different way. He can still be dark it's just now that's not all he is.

I guess this is where I would've liked the Riddler to be better. Both Batman and Riddler used fear throughout the movie. Both stalked people. Riddler thought they were the same. Needed more of a payoff for that at the end *or* the viewer has to actually question if they are the same at point in the movie.

I'm nitpicking but I do think these are the types of things that will keep it from being on the same level as the Dark Knight.

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I'm talking to myself here but since I can't edit I'll post some more thoughts as there is a lot to unpack.

Spoiler

I'd say with the themes of the movie, Batman's relationship with (Lt) Gordon hurts the movie. The movie is about a corrupt system and a villain who is an orphan inspiring a bunch of people who felt ignored by the system. Opening scene has Batman saving a guy that almost got beat up by a gang. Batman being on the side of the 'good guys of the law' leaves any reveals at the end redundant. We already know Batman is going to do the right thing and its just kinda boring to see him do it. Batman being 'good' throughout the movie hurts it imo.

I guess my biggest hot take here is that Paul Dano actually wasn't a good Riddler. I do like him as an actor and he played a very interesting character but I dont think it was very effective once the reveal of the final plan came. I like the idea of him acting a bit like the Joker when he had his mask on and sent out all of his messages. He used fear as part of his game. Very 'on brand'. The problem is that the scene where he gets caught and gets his one on one with Batman isn't even remotely as good as the scene in Dark Knight where Ledger reveals his plan and talks to Batman with his 'we're the same' speeches. In the Dark Knight, the Joker does whatever he can for Batman to maintain his secret identity as a major plot reversal because the Joker loves the idea of Batman. One of the plot twists in Batman 2022 is that the Riddler seems to imply to he knows Bruce Wayne is Batman but its actually just a coincidence that Batman eventually has to wait out. This is less interesting to me than the Dark Knight twist but its made worse by Dano hamming it up. The Riddler should be crazy but not so crazy that people wouldn't have immediately pegged him as crazy years ago. I was indifferent about the reveal of the Joker because the Riddler was already crossing into Joker territory with his role the whole movie.

The animated series probably would've ended this with Alfred telling Batman the riddle about a friend after Catwoman left. That would've been the way to end it, imo.

I guess I would probably have Mask of the Phantasm as a better Batman movie, too, although not Under the Red Hood or any of the others. Batman 2022 is a really well made movie. It just doesn't stick the landing for me.

Completely disagree. The one on one scene was phenomenal acting. Pattinson too.

 

[Clayton]

Completely disagree. The one on one scene was phenomenal acting. Pattinson too.

My issue has more to do with the direction and script than the acting because Dano is clearly acting the way the Riddler was meant to be in the movie. I guess they have a website where it shows his notes and he gets crazier and crazier. So Dano is playing the part. I just dont care for it.

FWIW, I actually have a hard time seeing any of the other Batman actors playing Pattinsons part in this. To me, thats a sign he did excellent in this movie. No issues there at all. He nailed 'dark' Batman.

 

[returnofjakedog]

I'll look out for it on a 2nd watch, but my assumption was she found out he was her father, but he never knew. I don't remember him ever referring to Selina as his daughter.

John Turturro had no idea she was his daughter until she told him.

She did not gain access to him because she was his daughter.

This was not obvious as I had a similar expectation going into that scene.

I read up on this a bit. Here is the theory regarding the "confusion":

*In the books/comics Falcone knew that Selina Kyle was his daughter. Cut and dry.

*In The Batman movie, he didn't know she was his daughter, but........
-He knew Selina was Maria's daughter.
-He knew Selina was born in the time period that he was having an affair with her mother (not a one night bang, but an extended affair).
-He saw Maria at the club at least on a weekly basis if not more often. He knew he was sleeping with her, and it would be logical to assume he knew she got pregnant. He also continued to be around Maria for the next 8 years or so (he killed Maria when Selina was 7 years old).
-He has known Selina basically her entire life, and has interacted enough with her to be on at least an acquaintance basis, or closer since he just waves her past the guards and into his suite (unless he just wanted to bang her?)
-Since Falcone essentially runs Gotham and is the mastermind behind the entire criminal syndicate, it is persumed and implied he is extremely intelligent. A man of his intellect in that position would be extremely aware of events and people surrounding him.

Due to these facts, the only explanations that I can come up with are:
*He had no idea she was his daughter.
-This seems a bit disingenuous because of everything I listed above. A man of his intellect in his situation would be informed enough to at least consider that she might be his daughter.

*He knew she was his daughter, but he just didn't give a shit.
-Possible, but it doesn't account for his surprised reaction when she makes the "big reveal".

The only viable way to account for this confusion is that the writers screwed up and didn't bother to address this, or important scenes/dialog that did go over this were cut in the script revisions or film editing.

Am I wrong on this? Still a very good movie but that point comes off as lazy production imo.

 

[Clayton]

I think very specifically they wanted a scene with Batman making an assumption about Catwoman and he is proven wrong. They needed the power dynamic between the two to go back and forth and it did.

Batman getting things wrong is a major theme in the movie.

The plot is honestly not that different than Frozen 2

 

[mr.hockey4242]

I get why it was left out but this was fucking great. A really great Hanibal Lector style dynamic here.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I get why it was left out but this was fucking great. A really great Hanibal Lector style dynamic here.

 

[Cave_Johnson]

I'm surprised people are cumming this hard over this movie.

It was entertaining but overall didn't touch The Dark Knight. Too much goofy shit. The Bruce Wayne Emo haircut was just silly and kinda distracting.

And Batman constantly getting shot and feeling basically nothing unless he got hit with a shotgun? Uh...okay. Guess that's not as bad as a huge bomb blowing up in his face and again doing essentially nothing to him.

How many people do you think he killed in that car crash BTW? All that death just to capture the wrong guy. And then nobody cared somehow.

Oh and let's not forget flying 100mph into a bridge and getting right back up immediately.

I'd recommend not paying for it and watching on HBO MAX if possible. For essentially free it's a fine movie.

 

[foster4prez]

It was iffy at best. Batman did literally nothing of benefit during the entire movie except solves some wildly basic riddles (often wrongly) and fell as backwards into accidentally getting dude killed by The Riddler. Not only that, but has there ever been a superhero movie where the villian was as wildly successful at killing tens of thousands of people and destroying an entire city? Bane didn't even accomplish that shit.

And why do these movies have to be so fucking dark. Apparently Gotham exists in Seattle in the middle of the night. Rained for like 3 straight weeks?

 

[BeaReylo]

liked The Batman. Very dark and brooding. All villains were done well. Definitely a lot of Zodiac/Seven feels and it works perfectly. Understated score, but it was effective at mood setting. Even a little Animated Series influence in some of the score during the car chase.

Don't know about the hint at the end. That's the one part that didn't feel like it fit in the same universe, but I'm willing to see them explore it. Batinson is great. His Bruce wasn't, but I could really give 2 shits about Bruce Wayne when I could just have more badass Batman instead.

John Turturro needs more gangster roles.

Turturro was top notch in Men of Respect. Goodfellas meet Macbeth.

 

[calsnowskier]

I mentioned this a few weeks back, but another reminder…

This will be available on HBOMax next week. Sorry if this has been confirmed more recently. I am avoiding this thread until I see the movie.

 

[Clayton]

I don't think that was the message, at the beginning Batman's priorities were to save the city by causing fear in the criminals, at the end he realized the actual way to save the city was to cause hope in the citizens. In that moment where the criminal said he was vengeance that clicked something in Batman's head that he wasn't going about crime fighting the right way. He can still do things the way he did before(he's still gonna beat people up) but to go about it in a different way. He can still be dark it's just now that's not all he is.

I still think it conflicts with the end of the Dark Knight. Batman needs to be the killer in that to put fear in the criminals. We're entering a thematic loop. The older Batman representations (Adam West and Kevin Conroy) just always played the good guy similar to where Spider-man sits in Marvel. Thats who Batman appears to be at the end of Batman 2022.

I think my issue here might be that Im too old for this movie. The beginning of the movie starts out with Pattinson being totally jaded by job. Thats generally something I associate with people as they get older but clearly this is more about Pattinson growing up. A lot of the social allegories in the movie are aimed at issues important to young people, too. Changing the role of police. Not needing rich white males going around trying to solve everything on their own. Our leaders need to inspire people. Our history isnt good.

So this movie acts as a bit of a reset on what Batman is and Im kinda already under the assumption that we've known who he is the whole time.

 

[nynasty]

Streaming today on HBO Max

 

[calsnowskier]

Streaming today on HBO Max

Just saw that. I thought it wasn’t supposed to be avail until tomorrow.

Starting it now. See you in about a year when it is over…

 

[calsnowskier]

Just finished it about 45 mins ago.

I will have to see it again. Maybe this weekend?

I went in with too high expectations, I guess. I thought it was good, but very meh. I am not a huge noir fan, so that may have been part of it.

biggest WTF moment for me was when Batty caused dozens of deaths and 10s of millions of dollars of damage on the city freeway and than had a chummy chat with Gordon immediately after.

Sorry, even in a city as fucked up as Gotham isn’t going to let that level of road rage go unquestioned.

 

[calsnowskier]

And how have I never heard that the magical, feud-breaking MARTHA Wayne was actually an Arkham? Has that ever been mentioned in a live-action Batman telling, ever? I actually had to rewind that mention multiple times to make sure I heard it right.