Where do the Lakers go from here...?

[WiggyRuss]

Scoreboard. Kind of speaks for itself. Either Luke can't coach or the Lakers players are not NBA ready. Last season wasn't just an unfortunate speed bump in rebuilding a team, the Lakers sucked!!! and didn't make the playoffs again!!! in a league where 75% of the teams qualify for the playoffs. That is huge.

what is it? I believe this year was the 6th straight year the Lakers did not win a playoff game.

Thats a long time to be really bad - esp. in the NBA

I gotta say- you would think they would have more to show for it than Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, and no lotto pick this year.

I feel if you have been bad for that long you should have accumulated more assets, and at least 1 sure-fire star a la a Simmons, Mitchell, Embiid, Giannis, Davis, etc.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I know they said it but it was the dumbest thing a sports franchise ever said. Not about wins? From the get go? what must the players have thought after hearing that? The Lakers are rudderless, lost, and the decision to stick with the leadership that said "its not about wins" is the problem.
We will see what Luke can do next season but if its a mirror image of this season he needs to be cut lose and they need to bring in a proven Basketball coach with a track record.
I never in my life thought that the mighty Lakers would fail to make the playoffs this many seasons in a row.
Its pathetic.
One bad choice and decision after another. They need to clear out the front office of any former Lakers players and fill it with great basketball minds with an eye for real talent not over sized point guards that can't shoot. Enough already!

well they did clear out the front office last year but this front office is still paying for the sins of the previous one.

All the future first round picks that were dealt, all the bad signings like Deng and Mozgov, all the questionable draft picks and stars that were passed over.

The draft is a crap shoot to a certain extent- but if just one time they take a Tatum or Mitchell instead of a Ball, or a Porzingis over a Russell, or just hit on a 2nd rounder like a Jokic, or Capela, etc... they would be a in a lot better shape

 

[trojanfan12]

I know they said it but it was the dumbest thing a sports franchise ever said. Not about wins? From the get go? what must the players have thought after hearing that?

Actually, it was very smart and they aren't the first pro team to say that and they won't be the last. It sets expectations so the fans know to be patient and lets the fans understand what is going on. Philly did something similar and that seems to have worked because it got the fans behind it.

Considering that they exceeded expectations, I'd say the players were just fine with it and that it removed much of the pressure they'd feel from fans/media with unrealistic expectations.

The Lakers are rudderless, lost, and the decision to stick with the leadership that said "its not about wins" is the problem.

Evidently you either don't realize that Short Buss isn't running things anymore or you think that him signing Mozgov and Deng in a desperate attempt to get an 8th seed was the right way to do things.

Saying "it's not about wins" isn't the problem at all. It's called being realistic and understanding that the core of your roster is 1st and 2nd year players (some of whom aren't old enough to buy a beer yet) who need to be able to develop without a bunch of pressure on them to "win now".

We will see what Luke can do next season but if its a mirror image of this season he needs to be cut lose and they need to bring in a proven Basketball coach with a track record.

If the Lakers are healthy next season and assuming natural improvement, even if they don't add any top FA's, they should at minimum be competing for a low level playoff seed (6-8). If not, Luke's seat should probably at least be getting pretty warm.

I never in my life thought that the mighty Lakers would fail to make the playoffs this many seasons in a row.
Its pathetic.
One bad choice and decision after another. They need to clear out the front office of any former Lakers players and fill it with great basketball minds with an eye for real talent not over sized point guards that can't shoot. Enough already!

I've followed the Lakers since 1970 and I never thought I'd see them go this long without being in the playoffs either.

However, I understand that it's not the 1980's anymore or even the 90's. The Lakers can no longer go into a meeting with an FA (their's or someone else's) and say "We're the Lakers...sign here".

I don't think you understand just how big the hole that Short Buss put the team in was. All of the bad decisions that you mention were made by him.

If this were a race, the Lakers were forced to start 30 yards behind everyone else because of his stupidity in desperately trying to hang on to his position. The amount of ground they've made up in one season, just to be in position to have a legit shot at not just 1, but 2 max FA's is amazing.

In professional sports, a team needs to be able to sell winning or hope. No doubt, the Lakers have some work to do before they can sell winning. But for the first time in about 5 years, they can sell hope. It's unfortunate that you can't see it.

 

[trojanfan12]

what is it? I believe this year was the 6th straight year the Lakers did not win a playoff game.

Thats a long time to be really bad - esp. in the NBA

I gotta say- you would think they would have more to show for it than Ball, Ingram, Kuzma, Hart, and no lotto pick this year.

I feel if you have been bad for that long you should have accumulated more assets, and at least 1 sure-fire star a la a Simmons, Mitchell, Embiid, Giannis, Davis, etc.

Apparently you don't realize just how bad Short Buss was and how big the hole that he left was.

 

[trojanfan12]

well they did clear out the front office last year but this front office is still paying for the sins of the previous one.

All the future first round picks that were dealt, all the bad signings like Deng and Mozgov, all the questionable draft picks and stars that were passed over.

The draft is a crap shoot to a certain extent- but if just one time they take a Tatum or Mitchell instead of a Ball, or a Porzingis over a Russell, or just hit on a 2nd rounder like a Jokic, or Capela, etc... they would be a in a lot better shape

Agree with most of this. However, the Tatum, Mitchell, Porzingis stuff is hindsight. The players the Lakers took at the spots they did were the players that pretty much everyone had in those spots.

You need to make up your mind. In post #641 you talk about how they should have more than they do and then in this post, you show why they did about as well as they could because of what Short Buss left behind.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

I feel if you have been bad for that long you should have accumulated more assets, and at least 1 sure-fire star a la a Simmons, Mitchell, Embiid, Giannis, Davis, etc.

I feel like Ingram can definitely be that guy. He's actually younger than Ben Simmons.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Agree with most of this. However, the Tatum, Mitchell, Porzingis stuff is hindsight. The players the Lakers took at the spots they did were the players that pretty much everyone had in those spots.

You need to make up your mind. In post #641 you talk about how they should have more than they do and then in this post, you show why they did about as well as they could because of what Short Buss left behind.

I mean its clearly both. Those are not mutually exclusive options- plus its not like you can just say it doesn't count because a prior regime did it. I am sure David Griffen would ahve loved to have had Chris Grant's pick of Anthony Bennett back- but it doesnt work like that. You cant blame Griffen (and by the same extension Pelinka and Magic), but its still something the Cavs (and Lakers) have to live with and own going forward.

And as i said- the fact is that the Lakers have been bad for 5 years running, and unfortunately as i said- they dont have a Donovan Mitchell or a Ben Simmons or Anthony Davis or Joel Embiid, or Karl Anthony Towns, or Kristaps Porzingis or Jayson Tatum---- some of that is just bad luck, but some if it is bad drafting as well.

 

[trojanfan12]

I feel like Ingram can definitely be that guy. He's actually younger than Ben Simmons.

Yeah, I think he can too. He made a big jump from his rookie year to this year. But he needs to gain some weight and continue to be more aggressive.

He's never going to be built like Karl Malone, but if he can at least get to KD size (who most say he plays like anyway) he should be just fine.

He has all of the skills to be a great player, but his weight makes it harder for him to finish at the rim or defend in the paint.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I feel like Ingram can definitely be that guy. He's actually younger than Ben Simmons.

is it possible? sure...is it probable at this point? id say no--- as you can usually tell pretty quickly who the truly elite talents are---- but without a doubt there are outliers. Can Ingram make 4-5 all star teams and make an All NBA team or two? absolutely. Would i bet on it? No i would not.

Simmons, Mitchell, Kyrie, Porzingis, Tatum--- all those guys you could see pretty early on were truly elite talents. In fact- and i will fidn the article- i read that there is no better indicator of future NBA stardom then how a guy played his rookie year--- not draft position, not college performance etc.

IT was an ESPN article- one of those where they ask 5 guys to rank the guys in last years draft...ill find it for ya la ter....

 

[True Lakers Fan]

Ingram and Leonard aren't close. And that's acknowledging that Ingram's a solid player.

KL 16 points per game 4.7 rebounds 2.3 assists

BI 16 points per game 5.3 rebounds 3.9 assists

Ingram is a good player and his stats are higher. I do agree, however that it's the things that does not show up in the stats that makes the difference. He is on his way up. I will interested to see what he brings to the table this year. For a player that only played 9 games, there is no way the Spurs will get anything better which means there will not be any trades by the Spurs - but I wasn't expecting that any way - some you allows your hatred to cloud your judgement on the Lakers - Just saying

 

[Heatles84]

KL 16 points per game 4.7 rebounds 2.3 assists

BI 16 points per game 5.3 rebounds 3.9 assists

Ingram is a good player and his stats are higher. I do agree, however that it's the things that does not show up in the stats that makes the difference. He is on his way up. I will interested to see what he brings to the table this year. For a player that only played 9 games, there is no way the Spurs will get anything better which means there will not be any trades by the Spurs - but I wasn't expecting that any way - some you allows your hatred to cloud your judgement on the Lakers - Just saying

Are you fucking high?

You're really going to take Kawhi's stats from 9 games where he wasn't healthy and compare them to Ingram's and say they're similar?

How about you compile the stats for Leonard the last 3 years then compare prior to this season? Oh yeah, because then your argument is shit.

The Spurs won't get value for Kawhi, not because he's damaged goods. The Spurs aren't going to get value for him because he's going to be a free agent the following year. Why am I selling the farm for a guy that will be available for free the following year?

 

[trojanfan12]

I mean its clearly both. Those are not mutually exclusive options- plus its not like you can just say it doesn't count because a prior regime did it. I am sure David Griffen would ahve loved to have had Chris Grant's pick of Anthony Bennett back- but it doesnt work like that. You cant blame Griffen (and by the same extension Pelinka and Magic), but its still something the Cavs (and Lakers) have to live with and own going forward.

I agree and disagree at the same time. You absolutely can blame the prior regime for the current predicament. Magic and Pelinka have taken on the responsibility for getting the Lakers out of the situation that Short Buss put them in. But the blame for the situation falls squarely on Short Buss.

Now, if in 3-5 years, when all of the crap Short Buss did is no longer effecting the Lakers ability to make moves, they are still in the same situation...that would fall on Magic and Pelinka.

And as i said- the fact is that the Lakers have been bad for 5 years running, and unfortunately as i said- they dont have a Donovan Mitchell or a Ben Simmons or Anthony Davis or Joel Embiid, or Karl Anthony Towns, or Kristaps Porzingis or Jayson Tatum---- some of that is just bad luck, but some if it is bad drafting as well.

You need to stop with the hindsight. It's not like any of the players that the Lakers drafted were some kind of reach. Every player was drafted right where everyone had them projected.

People like to play the "if we did a re-draft game" based on hindsight. I mean, if they did a re-draft of the 1996 draft, do you think Kobe gets drafted 13th behind guys like Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles and Todd Fuller to name a few? MJ behind Sam Bowie?

I mean, it's a fun conversation, but it doesn't mean teams made the wrong choice based on the info they had at the time.

When the Knicks drafted Porzingis, they were mocked and laughed at. It turned out to be the one thing Phil did right.

 

[trojanfan12]

I think they are close,

No they aren't. Look, I love Ingram and I think he's got the potential to get to Kawhi's level or close to it.

But as of right now, it's not close. In fact, if the Lakers and Spurs were to discuss a trade and the Spurs demanded Ingram...you do that without a second thought.

 

[OutlawImmortal]

is it possible? sure...is it probable at this point? id say no--- as you can usually tell pretty quickly who the truly elite talents are---- but without a doubt there are outliers. Can Ingram make 4-5 all star teams and make an All NBA team or two? absolutely. Would i bet on it? No i would not.

Simmons, Mitchell, Kyrie, Porzingis, Tatum--- all those guys you could see pretty early on were truly elite talents. In fact- and i will fidn the article- i read that there is no better indicator of future NBA stardom then how a guy played his rookie year--- not draft position, not college performance etc.

IT was an ESPN article- one of those where they ask 5 guys to rank the guys in last years draft...ill find it for ya la ter....

Simmons has work to do before he can be considered elite. His jumpshot is essentially nonexistent. Ingram made a marked improvement in his 2nd year, I don't think it's unreasonable to add Ingram to the conversation if Simmons is there. I think there's a difference between having elite talent and being an elite player because skills are apart of it too. LeBron is the best in the world because he has an abundant supply of both.

It's kind of interesting how Lonzo gets far less praise for stuffing the stat sheet than Simmons does.

 

[Black Adam]

Apparently you don't realize just how bad Short Buss was and how big the hole that he left was.

like Eight knows any better or cares...

 

[WiggyRuss]

I agree and disagree at the same time. You absolutely can blame the prior regime for the current predicament. Magic and Pelinka have taken on the responsibility for getting the Lakers out of the situation that Short Buss put them in. But the blame for the situation falls squarely on Short Buss.

Now, if in 3-5 years, when all of the crap Short Buss did is no longer effecting the Lakers ability to make moves, they are still in the same situation...that would fall on Magic and Pelinka.



You need to stop with the hindsight. It's not like any of the players that the Lakers drafted were some kind of reach. Every player was drafted right where everyone had them projected.

People like to play the "if we did a re-draft game" based on hindsight. I mean, if they did a re-draft of the 1996 draft, do you think Kobe gets drafted 13th behind guys like Marcus Camby, Shareef Abdur Rahim, Lorenzen Wright, Kerry Kittles and Todd Fuller to name a few? MJ behind Sam Bowie?

I mean, it's a fun conversation, but it doesn't mean teams made the wrong choice based on the info they had at the time.

When the Knicks drafted Porzingis, they were mocked and laughed at. It turned out to be the one thing Phil did right.

I mean how else do you grade a draft?

I dont think anyone much thought the Sixers made the wrong pick picking Fultz over Tatum- but in retrospect it was the wrong pick. I want my GM to be the guy that goes against the national media consensus and gets it right- like Danny Ainge did.

Like Phil in NY- I absolutely give him a ton of credit for going against what many people thought was a risky pick in picking Porzingis.

Tons of people liked MKG as the consensus #2 pick after Davis- but its clear in retrospect that lillard, beale, drummond, etc. were better picks.

NBA GM's are paid to pick the right players--- when they do - like Utah did with Mitchell- they deserve all the credit in the world- when they dont- like say I remember Jan Vesley was like the 7th overall pick to the Wizards- they deserved to be ripped.

Thats the job.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Simmons has work to do before he can be considered elite. His jumpshot is essentially nonexistent. Ingram made a marked improvement in his 2nd year, I don't think it's unreasonable to add Ingram to the conversation if Simmons is there. I think there's a difference between having elite talent and being an elite player because skills are apart of it too. LeBron is the best in the world because he has an abundant supply of both.

It's kind of interesting how Lonzo gets far less praise for stuffing the stat sheet than Simmons does.

I just dont agree in the slightest.

I think Simmons is the 2nd best talent to come into the NBA in the last 10 years after Anthony Davis and he has the upside to be a top 5 player in the entire NBA someday. I just dont see Ingram anywhere close to that- but we shall see.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean shit--- the year the Browns took Justin Gilbert #8 overall and Johhny Manziel #23 overall many publications gave them an A grade. Profootball Focus i beleive gave them an A+. A grade on draft day means nothing. Less than nothing.

That draft ended up being one of the worst ones in NFL history- to have 2 first rounders and have both guys OUT OF FOOTBALL within 3 years.

Like with Baker--- some guys hated the pick and gave the Browns a terrible grade, some loved him and gave the Browns a great grade.

Neither one matters.

What matters is how it actually works out down the road. You cant grade a draft on draft night- you grade a draft on how the players actually worked out.

 

[Heatles84]

I mean shit--- the year the Browns took Justin Gilbert #8 overall and Johhny Manziel #23 overall many publications gave them an A grade. Profootball Focus i beleive gave them an A+. A grade on draft day means nothing. Less than nothing.

That draft ended up being one of the worst ones in NFL history- to have 2 first rounders and have both guys OUT OF FOOTBALL within 3 years.

Like with Baker--- some guys hated the pick and gave the Browns a terrible grade, some loved him and gave the Browns a great grade.

Neither one matters.

What matters is how it actually works out down the road. You cant grade a draft on draft night- you grade a draft on how the players actually worked out.

Never pay attention to draft grades in the NFL. I really wish their was more coverage for NFL drafts 2-3 years down the road similar to how CFB recruiting classes are evaluated by smaller media companies.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Never pay attention to draft grades in the NFL. I really wish their was more coverage for NFL drafts 2-3 years down the road similar to how CFB recruiting classes are evaluated by smaller media companies.

exactly.....while grading drafts on draft night is fun- in any sport---- its pretty pointless.