MLB Daily Thread: 9/21/2017: Sale 1st AL pitcher in 18 years to fan 300, Sox clinch a playoff spot

[DirtDirtDirt]

no im not

i look at OPS+ first

thats about as good as it gets

Of course, because Rollins has the better OPS

 

[Rock Strongo]

Of course, because Rollins has the better OPS

OPS+>>> OPS

everyone knows that

wait, you mean .006 better?

6 thousandths?

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

A 4 point difference in OPS while one player is a threat on the basepaths and playing 2nd as opposed to 1st? Not a strong argument. It would be completely relying on HRs and RBI.

You could minimize HR's and RBI's if youd like, but it gets to the point where when there is such a gross difference between 2 players in those categories, it does matter

And Im not saying thats the case with Morneau, just in general, it is more than mere sidenote

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

OPS+>>> OPS

everyone knows that

wait, you mean .006 better?

So the 4 point difference in OPS+ offsets every other advantage Rollins has

Dis-agree, pretty strongly

 

[soxfan1468927]

dusty carried that team on his back the final 2 months dirt, and thats what won it for him.

he carried that team.

Dude was insanely consistent that year. Only twice did he not reach base in back to back games. And he reached base in every game except 4 in the second half. And I'm not including reaching on an error

 

[Rock Strongo]

So the 4 point difference in OPS+ offsets every other advantage Rollins has

Dis-agree, pretty strongly

do you know how small .006" is?

i do.

OPS+ factors in a lot of other criteria than just adding 3 numbers.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

do you know how small .006" is?

i do.

OPS+ factors in a lot of other criteria than just adding 3 numbers.

Sorry, OPS+, when nearly identical, is not the only deciding factor in who had a better season

 

[Rock Strongo]

Sorry, OPS+, when nearly identical, is not the only deciding factor in who had a better season

ok. how about a 30 pt lead in BA and 16 more doubles?

you like old numbers like that.

 

[soxfan1468927]

You could minimize HR's and RBI's if youd like, but it gets to the point where when there is such a gross difference between 2 players in those categories, it does matter

And Im not saying thats the case with Morneau, just in general, it is more than mere sidenote

And that shows up in other metrics that take more into account. So I don't feel the need to look too closely into home runs. If there is a gross difference in RBI but one player has a higher OPS, or close, then I'm going to investigate why.

Pedroia batted 2nd that year, Morneau batted clean up. Pedroia came to bat with 439 runners on base that year, Morneau came to bat with 558. It's not shocking that he had more RBI. The guy hitting in front of him had a .413 OBP. It's also not shocking that Pedroia has a large advantage in runs scored.

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

OPS +

2008

Justin Morneau 134
Dustin Pedroia 123


Morneau was robbed of the 2008 AL MVP

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

ok. how about a 30 pt lead in BA and 16 more doubles?

you like old numbers like that.

Sure, as long as you like all the edges I posted for Rollins, some very significant edges

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

And that shows up in other metrics that take more into account. So I don't feel the need to look too closely into home runs. If there is a gross difference in RBI but one player has a higher OPS, or close, then I'm going to investigate why.

Pedroia batted 2nd that year, Morneau batted clean up. Pedroia came to bat with 439 runners on base that year, Morneau came to bat with 558. It's not shocking that he had more RBI. The guy hitting in front of him had a .413 OBP. It's also not shocking that Pedroia has a large advantage in runs scored.

It doesnt matter anymore, based on Rocks' only measurement for MVP, Justin Morneau demolished Dusty

 

[soxfan1468927]

Now, to clarify, I actually think Morneau was a better hitter that year than Pedroia. But Pedroia was a better offensive player due to his ability on the basepaths, and the more deserving player easily because of his positional value and fielding.

 

[soxfan1468927]

It doesnt matter anymore, based on Rocks' only measurement for MVP, Justin Morneau demolished Dusty

Well I know that isn't what he said

 

[Rock Strongo]

Sure, as long as you like all the edges I posted for Rollins, some very significant edges

ok, as long as you say you were wrong about him being the worst winner in "modern baseball".

again.

you did in 2008 after we did this the first time.

 

[Rock Strongo]

Well I know that isn't what he said

we know that

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

OPS+

Mike Trout 187
Josh Donaldson 141
Mike Trout 173
Miggy 190
Miggy 164
Josh Hamilton 170
Joe Mauer 171
Dustin Pedroia 123
Arod 176
Justin Morneau 140
Arod 175
Vlad 151
Arod 147
Miguel Tejada 128
Ichiro 126 (Even Ichiro)


Shall I continue?

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

OPS+

Mike Trout 187
Josh Donaldson 141
Mike Trout 173
Miggy 190
Miggy 164
Josh Hamilton 170
Joe Mauer 171
Dustin Pedroia 123
Arod 176
Justin Morneau 140
Arod 175
Vlad 151
Arod 147
Miguel Tejada 128
Ichiro 126 (Even Ichiro)


Shall I continue?

Worst offensive MVP in the "Steroid Era" may be a better way to say it

Hard to compare numbers from the 70's and 80's

 

[DirtDirtDirt]

Well I know that isn't what he said

Logical conclusion when he says "I look at OPS+ first" to determine Pedroia was better than Rollins...Because outside of that and .BA, Rollins was significantly better in most every other category

 

[soxfan1468927]

Worst offensive MVP in the "Steroid Era" may be a better way to say it

Hard to compare numbers from the 70's and 80's

Well we can use adjusted stats, and you also only posted the NL. And was 2008 really the steroid era? Testing had begun and the HR rate was the lowest it had been since 1993.