POLL} The Best Overall Hitter In The Past 30 Years ?......

[Chewbaccer]

Yes he was, not like Blow Job, but he was extremely streaky.

I'd take his production for us from anyone.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

I'd take his production for us from anyone.

Management over-paid. He was a below average fielder and a very streaky hitter.
He went too many games where he was unproductive in my opinion.

 

[soxfan1468927]

No, Bonds was CAUGHT using in 98/99. There is no such thing as a document to prove he didn't use before then. He at least refined his use after the BS home run race of 98, but they had become wide spread before and I'm betting he chested earlier.

Bonds was caught using in '98/'99? You would think that since he was "caught" that you could narrow down the exact year he was punished for using steroids.

By the way, what rule did Bonds break exactly, and what was the punishment for that rule?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Bonds never had a 40 hr season till 1993 when he was 28 years old. That is also the year PEDs became prevalent in MLB.
I agree it's far from proof, but knowing his character my guess is he did use, just not as scientifically as he did with Balco.

Based on what exactly?

 

[ChiSoxFan]

BJ is no more, he changed his name, if not his habits.

He can go by Melvin or whatever he wants. Will never erase his BJ years.

 

[soxfan1468927]

My point SHOULD be clear.
Mays is always given credit for his base running over Aaron, but he just ran more often.
He had 98 more stolen bases but his rate of success was practically identical to Aaron's.

Chase Utley has a much higher success rate than Rickey Henderson. Was Ricky a better base runner or did he just "run more often"?

 

[soxfan1468927]

Sure it pertains to hitting, that's ALL my points pertain to.
I did mention the fact Aaron actually had a very slightly higher stolen base success rate than Mays in another thread, but not in this one.
Mays was a great player and iconic media darling when nobody outside of core fans paid attention to the very quiet and low key Aaron, but Aaron was the better player.

No one cares about the media darling aspect. You've been proven wrong on that multiple times, using the exact same stats that YOU have claimed to put value in.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Chase Utley has a much higher success rate than Rickey Henderson. Was Ricky a better base runner or did he just "run more often"?

Mays only had 98 more steals than Aaron, the comparison is not valid.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

No one cares about the media darling aspect. You've been proven wrong on that multiple times, using the exact same stats that YOU have claimed to put value in.

No I have not been proven wrong. Aaron has the stats to prove it.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Mays only had 98 more steals than Aaron, the comparison is not valid.

It's hyperbole and you get the point. Mays obviously will get more credit for baserunning than Aaron because he has more stolen bases at pretty much the exact same rate.

 

[soxfan1468927]

No I have not been proven wrong. Aaron has the stats to prove it.

Dude, it's okay that a guy on your team isn't the best hitter of all time or not as good as a counterpart. You've had to twist your arguments into a pretzel in order to try to salvage a point, and even then have failed to do so. Take a slightly unbiased look for once.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Dude, it's okay that a guy on your team isn't the best hitter of all time or not as good as a counterpart. You've had to twist your arguments into a pretzel in order to try to salvage a point, and even then have failed to do so. Take a slightly unbiased look for once.

Dude, neither Aaron or Mays was the best hitter of all time. Aaron's career hitting was slightly better than Mays' though.
As far as sustained excellence and career stats, Aaron does stack up against anybody.
He led in RBI, HR and total bases for decades. He still has 13% more total bases than anybody who ever played the game.

 

[soxfan1468927]

Dude, neither Aaron or Mays was the best hitter of all time. Aaron's career hitting was slightly better than Mays' though.
As far as sustained excellence and career stats, Aaron does stack up against anybody.
He led is RBI, HR and total bases for decades. He still has 13% more total bases than anybody who ever played the game.

Of course they weren't the best hitters of all time. That's why I said "not as good as a counterpart". And if you value OPS, how can you say that Aaron was slightly better than Mays? You've tried to "easily explain" that away, and failed.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

It's hyperbole and you get the point. Mays obviously will get more credit for baserunning than Aaron because he has more stolen bases at pretty much the exact same rate.

He should get a marginal amount of credit for running more, my point is still valid.

 

[soxfan1468927]

He should get a marginal amount of credit for running more, my point is still valid.

Still expands the difference in offensive value. As it should.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Of course they weren't the best hitters of all time. That's why I said "not as good as a counterpart". And if you value OPS, how can you say that Aaron was slightly better than Mays? You've tried to "easily explain" that away, and failed.

I value OPS, I also value total bases, Aaron has 13% more total bases than Mays. He also has more RBI and HR.

 

[BallsOfFurry]

Still expands the difference in offensive value. As it should.

True, but less than Arron's total bases, RBI, and HR advantage..in my opinion.
Yes, I do think image favors Mays. I'm old enough to remember Mays on variety shows and Bewitched.
He was also charismatic in the way he played, writers like that.

 

[soxfan1468927]

I value OPS, I also value total bases, Aaron has 13% more total bases than Mays. He also has more RBI and HR.

Yes, we know that Aaron played longer.

Let's isolate the arguments for a second. Do you believe that Aaron was both the better hitter AND better overall player? Or do you believe that Aaron was simply the better hitter while Mays was the better overall player?

 

[Rex Racer]

Me in my beer league, but humility prevents me from bragging!

Your humility is exceeded only by my own

 

[broncosmitty]

I care, and no way Maddux or Gwynn used.
Also, Bonds used to the max, he was caught and has confessed.

They used.

They all used.

Maddux was frumpy, still an obvious juicer.