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Zeke's current state of suspension

starbigd

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He hasn't actually won anything. He got a TRO so they can have a hearing to determine if he received a fair appeal or not. In other words....he is out on bail.

OK. Choose to ignore what a judge has already ruled on because it contradicts what you want to believe.

I'll let the courts settle it........and yes, I know it's a small chance he wins. But it's not set in stone.
 

PhillyGreen

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I'll admit odds are long but it's not a slam dunk.
From the story in post 52

"
Says Judge Crotty, point blank: “That is quite wrong.”

He adds that the Brady case “did not hold that courts cannot review arbitral decisions for fundamental fairness,” and that the Brady ruling “did not decide that issue.”

This is significant, for two reasons. First, it underscores the fact that the question of whether an NFL player is entitled to “fundamental fairness” in an internal arbitration proceeding has not been resolved by the Second Court, the appeals court with jurisdiction over New York federal litigation. Second, Judge Crotty becomes the first judge in the Elliott case to deviate from the party lines of the president who nominated him.

It means that Elliott has an opening to prevail not only as to an injunction that would let him play for the rest of the year, but also as to an eventual ruling from the U.S. Court of Appeals for the Second Circuit on whether he is entitled to, and whether he received, a fundamentally fair hearing.

In English, Elliott actually has a chance to defeat the suspension."

Good points but I still feel Elliot has no shot. I am not sure the courts are willing to take on battles of companies and unions suing each other because they feel the deal the agreed to was unfair. We are talkiing about opening Pandora's Box IMO.
 

PhillyGreen

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OK. Choose to ignore what a judge has already ruled on because it contradicts what you want to believe.

I'll let the courts settle it........and yes, I know it's a small chance he wins. But it's not set in stone.

Am I missing something? What ruling? My understanding is that he got a TRO so the judge appointed to the case can make a ruling which is to be done by the end of the month.
 

starbigd

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Good points but I still feel Elliot has no shot. I am not sure the courts are willing to take on battles of companies and unions suing each other because they feel the deal the agreed to was unfair. We are talkiing about opening Pandora's Box IMO.

You are still missing what they are actually arguing. They are not arguing what they agreed to was unfair. They are arguing that the NFL did not adhere to their own policy.
 

DirtDirtDirt

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"Quest For Eleven"


Giants about to win Eleven Straight

Spread the news
 

PhillyGreen

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You are still missing what they are actually arguing. They are not arguing what they agreed to was unfair. They are arguing that the NFL did not adhere to their own policy.

No I am not missing what they are arguing. I thought I stated in my post that they are not arguing guilt or innocence. I stated they are arguing if Zeke got a fair appeal or not.
 

starbigd

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No I am not missing what they are arguing. I thought I stated in my post that they are not arguing guilt or innocence. I stated they are arguing if Zeke got a fair appeal or not.

That's not exactly it either. Their brief states the league did not adhere to their own policy in the investigation, and did not give Elliott any chance to answer the accusations or investigation.

The court ABSOLUTELY can rule that they have to provide this......and a judge has already stated so. The Brady case wasn't specific to this dynamic.
 

PhillyGreen

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That's not exactly it either. Their brief states the league did not adhere to their own policy in the investigation, and did not give Elliott any chance to answer the accusations or investigation.

The court ABSOLUTELY can rule that they have to provide this......and a judge has already stated so. The Brady case wasn't specific to this dynamic.

I don't think that is the case. I think I heard it somewhere yesterday on one of the sports shows and they said Article 46 does not give the union the right to interview the commissioner or the investigators. I am going to see if I can find it. With that said Elliott also had people on his side refuse to speak to NFL investigators. The gave affidavits but would not talk to anyone.

Like I said earlier I am not an attorney and could be full of crap but I just don't see Zeke having a shot. Hell even the NFL is arguing that Zeke's camp knows he has no shot based on the Brady ruling.

All this legal maneuvering crap is making my head spin to be honest.
 

Hank Kingsley

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Good points but I still feel Elliot has no shot. I am not sure the courts are willing to take on battles of companies and unions suing each other because they feel the deal the agreed to was unfair. We are talkiing about opening Pandora's Box IMO.

Every labour management contract/agreement would suddenly be under scrutiny.
 

starbigd

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I don't think that is the case. I think I heard it somewhere yesterday on one of the sports shows and they said Article 46 does not give the union the right to interview the commissioner or the investigators. I am going to see if I can find it. With that said Elliott also had people on his side refuse to speak to NFL investigators. The gave affidavits but would not talk to anyone.

Like I said earlier I am not an attorney and could be full of crap but I just don't see Zeke having a shot. Hell even the NFL is arguing that Zeke's camp knows he has no shot based on the Brady ruling.

All this legal maneuvering crap is making my head spin to be honest.

I don't think Elliott wins, for the record.

But I read that he isn't directly arguing fairness in that regard.

He's arguing the NFL broke their own rules in how they handled the investigation, which makes the ruling unfair. I'll see if I can find the article.
 

PhillyGreen

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He's arguing the NFL broke their own rules in how they handled the investigation, which makes the ruling unfair. I'll see if I can find the article.

That would be cool. I am only making my opinions based on things I have read. I have read that they feel he did not get a fair appeal. I have yet to see anything about what specific rules were broke. Not saying it does not exist but I could not find it. If there is a list of rules they feel the NFL did not follow that may help some of us understand his reasonings.
 

starbigd

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That would be cool. I am only making my opinions based on things I have read. I have read that they feel he did not get a fair appeal. If there is a list of rules they feel the NFL did not follow that may help some of us understand his reasonings.

Here's part of it.......but I need to find the full article:

"The NFLPA and Elliott’s defense team have been looking for a potential procedural violation to mount a challenge in federal court. Sources have told Yahoo Sports that they believe they have it, via some of the same procedural collective bargaining arguments that opened the door for the union and quarterback Tom Brady to sue the NFL in deflate-gate. The sources declined to make the exact violations clear, but told Yahoo Sports that it involves all three of the aforementioned developments: naming Henderson as a partial arbitrator; failing to require Thompson to appear for cross-examination; and refusing to produce investigative material gathered when the NFL interviewed Thompson on multiple occasions."

This is what I'm looking for
 

jarntt

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Zeke isn't going to win, but when you state the Brady case set a precedent, be very careful what you are talking about. It only set a precedent if you are making the same argument that was ruled on in the Brady matter, which Zeke is not.
 

fordman84

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Rumor is that the NFL and NFLPA are negotiating a settlement to get this over with. NFL doesn't want this drug through the media for the next year.

My issues:
1) A settlement probably requires an admission of guilt (however an admission of guilt would trigger an auto 6 game suspension)
2) absent a verbal admission, accepting any punishment does appear to admit guilt
3) Elliot still believes he is not guilty, so would even 3 games be enough to get him to just sit?
4) NFL sets a precedent for suing to get a suspension overturned for questionable cases like this (meaning no arrest/charges/drug test results)
 

Manster7588

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Rumor is that the NFL and NFLPA are negotiating a settlement to get this over with. NFL doesn't want this drug through the media for the next year.

My issues:
1) A settlement probably requires an admission of guilt (however an admission of guilt would trigger an auto 6 game suspension)
2) absent a verbal admission, accepting any punishment does appear to admit guilt
3) Elliot still believes he is not guilty, so would even 3 games be enough to get him to just sit?
4) NFL sets a precedent for suing to get a suspension overturned for questionable cases like this (meaning no arrest/charges/drug test results)
I'd negotiate two or three games for the multiple issues he was involved in if I were the NFL. I think most of us supporting his appeals would accept this snd move on.
 

fordman84

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I'd negotiate two or three games for the multiple issues he was involved in if I were the NFL. I think most of us supporting his appeals would accept this snd move on.

I'd LOVE to have this over with. Would prefer 2 games, but 3 would be ok. NFL screwed that up though by saying they looked into the other matters and didn't find anything. Also would set a bad precedent to say "based on the entire body of issues we are going to make this a 3 game suspension" because it is just making things up as they go.

So yes it would be a perfect solution but would look bad and set a bad precedent the NFLPA won't like. The NFL had their chance to do just this in the appeal hearing and they turned that into another kangaroo court instead of making a fair and impartial appeal. Now they are here. All because Goodell thinks he can just go through the motions and then do what he wants. NFL has to see that they have a good chance of losing if they are even willing to negotiate. Right now they can say they have the Brady ruling cementing their authority, but I don't think it applies here. That was a judgement questioning if Goodell has the authority to suspend. This is a challenge that the process meets the contractual obligation of the investigation. Neither side is going to get a true win, so they need to settle.
 
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