You make the divisions - expansion game

[steveringo]

Since there is an expansion thread, let's create new divisions... You pick the new locations (feel free to move existing teams)... I'd like 5-5-6, but I suspect they'll try 4-4-4-4....

Be creative, but be smart...

 

[calsnowskier]

I did this breakdown about 10 years ago. It is based on current locations (pre-Vegas), but is a good start point…

I like this alignment, except for 2 items.

1) The West does not have a large market team. Would this be a deal-killer?

2) The Mets and Phils are not in a division together. I am not sure how to fix this issue.

California
SF
Oak
SD
LAA
LAD

West
Arz
Col
Mil
Min
Sea

Plains
ChW
ChC
KC
StL
Cin

North
Cle
Det
Pit
Tor
Phi

East
Bal
Bos
DC
NYM
NYY

SE
Atl
Hou
Tex
Mia
TB

Vegas could stay in California with no trouble, but If the Rays moved to Montreal, that would really mess everything up. Further, factoring in 2 additional teams would require a full realignment as well, and I am not even going to venture a guess into that because there are too many variables.

 

[steveringo]

Further, factoring in 2 additional teams would require a full realignment as well, and I am not even going to venture a guess into that because there are too many variables.

That's why it's just a game. Pick your favorite expansion cities and pretend you're Theo Epstein.....

 

[Fountain City Blues]

AL West:

Mariners
Angels
Las Vegas (A's)
Rockies

NL West

Dodgers
Giants
Padres
D-Backs

NL Central

Cardinals
Cubs
Reds
Brewers

AL Central

Tigers
Guardians
Twins
White Sox

NL East

Mets
Phillies
Nationals
Montreal (Rays)

AL East

Yankees
Red Sox
Blue Jays
Orioles

NL South:

Braves
Marlins
Insert Expansion here (Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Monterrey, Mexico City, Havana)
Pirates (The ugly duckling)

AL South:

Astros
Rangers
Royals
Insert Expansion here Charlotte, Nashville, Austin, Monterrey, Mexico City, Havana)

 

[MilkSpiller22]

its interesting because now with the universal DH there is no need for AL vs NL... other than history...

other problem is that in no way will it ever happen that if divisions are 4 teams that all 4 will be big market, or all 4 be small market... that is just not balanced...

so here is my bet... it will be similar to basketball and hockey divisions where it is 8 team divisions and 16 team conferences where the conferences are EAST and WEST

Probably best way to do it...

so lets first see North/south

EAST

North- Yankees, Mets, Red Sox, Phillies, pirates, blue Jays, Indians, reds

South- Marlins, Rays, Braves, Nats, Orioles, Carolina(expansion), cardinals, Louisville(expansion)

WEST

North- giants, mariners, Rockies, twins, Tigers, Cubs, White sox, Brewers

South- Padres, diamondbacks, rangers, Astros, A's, royals, Angels, Dodgers


well, clearly some of those teams don't fit... and guessing the expansion is near impossible... even though I would love Louisville to get a team, as I always found it interesting that the location most famous for BATS doesn't have any MLB team...
But they are too small of a market, and they are too close to other markets...

 

[calsnowskier]

You have to keep rivals together, I think. Especially the 3 major ones (Yanks/Sox, Giants/Dodgers, Cubs/Cards).

I think you also have to make sure each division has at least 1 high profile/big market team. As with my proposal from 10 years ago, that is tough to do with the west coast teams (LA and SF are the only cities that qualify, and the Angels are not a high profile team, so unless they want to split the Giants/Dodgers, I don’t see that as a possibility.

Seattle is pretty much fuct when it comes to travel. Unless they expand to Portland AND Vancouver and create a division of Seattle, Portland, Vancouver and Milwaukee (which would screw Milwaukee), there really isn’t a viable solution.

Keeping the Mets and Yanks in a single division is probably not viable. Both NY teams in one division would cause financial inequity in the league. The team density in NE is probably such that you can impose 2 divisions on the same geography, though.

 

[calsnowskier]

My modified proposal, assuming Vegas As and Montreal Rays, and Vancouver and Portland as expansion (that won’t happen, but it makes realignment somewhat easier)…

California
SF
SD
LAA
LAD

Pacific
Minnesota
Portland
Seattle
Vancouver

West
Arz
Col
Mil
Vegas

Plains
ChW
ChC
KC
StL

North
Bal
Cle
Det
Cin

Atlantic
DC
NYM
Phi
Pit

East
Bos
Mon
NYY
Tor

SE
Atl
Hou
Tex
Mia


Not a big fan of the Plains, West, or Pacific divisions. Plains has both Chicago teams and California has both LA teams. I think it is best to separate those. Mil and Min are just thrown into random divisions, which I am sure there is a better solution. Maybe get rid of one of Portland/VANCOUVER AND PUT BOTH mil and Min in the pacific? Then add Utah to the West and swap Vegas and the Angels?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

My modified proposal, assuming Vegas As and Montreal Rays, and Vancouver and Portland as expansion (that won’t happen, but it makes realignment somewhat easier)…

California
SF
SD
LAA
LAD

Pacific
Minnesota
Portland
Seattle
Vancouver

West
Arz
Col
Mil
Vegas

Plains
ChW
ChC
KC
StL

North
Bal
Cle
Det
Cin

Atlantic
DC
NYM
Phi
Pit

East
Bos
Mon
NYY
Tor

SE
Atl
Hou
Tex
Mia


Not a big fan of the Plains, West, or Pacific divisions. Plains has both Chicago teams and California has both LA teams. I think it is best to separate those. Mil and Min are just thrown into random divisions, which I am sure there is a better solution. Maybe get rid of one of Portland/VANCOUVER AND PUT BOTH mil and Min in the pacific? Then add Utah to the West and swap Vegas and the Angels?

Do we really think the rays are going to move out of Florida??

 

[broncosmitty]

I did this breakdown about 10 years ago. It is based on current locations (pre-Vegas), but is a good start point…

I like this alignment, except for 2 items.

1) The West does not have a large market team. Would this be a deal-killer?

2) The Mets and Phils are not in a division together. I am not sure how to fix this issue.

California
SF
Oak
SD
LAA
LAD

West
Arz
Col
Mil
Min
Sea

Plains
ChW
ChC
KC
StL
Cin

North
Cle
Det
Pit
Tor
Phi

East
Bal
Bos
DC
NYM
NYY

SE
Atl
Hou
Tex
Mia
TB

Vegas could stay in California with no trouble, but If the Rays moved to Montreal, that would really mess everything up. Further, factoring in 2 additional teams would require a full realignment as well, and I am not even going to venture a guess into that because there are too many variables.

We’re never going to see divisions with two teams in the same city.

 

[calsnowskier]

We’re never going to see divisions with two teams in the same city.

I think this is probably true. My modified take tried to take this into account, but it still needs work (LA and Chicago). Further, Houston and Texas probably need to be separated as well.

 

[broncosmitty]

I think this is probably true. My modified take tried to take this into account, but it still needs work (LA and Chicago). Further, Houston and Texas probably need to be separated as well.

It’s tough to do without knowing where the two new additional teams will be.

I assume NL and AL histories will be respected for awhile too. A couple teams could bounce around like we’ve seen in the past with Milwaukee and Houston. (I’d move one of the Texas teams to the NL)

And a few rivalries, like Yankees-Red Sox, Cubs-Cards and Giants-Dodgers would certainly be kept. Major markets having a presence from both leagues would be good for the sport imo. Even if that’s only three cities and possibly Baltimore/Washington. I’d include Canada in that scheme if Montreal was an expansion city.

 

[calsnowskier]

It’s tough to do without knowing where the two new additional teams will be.

I assume NL and AL histories will be respected for awhile too. A couple teams could bounce around like we’ve seen in the past with Milwaukee and Houston. (I’d move one of the Texas teams to the NL)

And a few rivalries, like Yankees-Red Sox, Cubs-Cards and Giants-Dodgers would certainly be kept. Major markets having a presence from both leagues would be good for the sport imo. Even if that’s only three cities and possibly Baltimore/Washington. I’d include Canada in that scheme if Montreal was an expansion city.

I think that IF the do a full realignment (a given if there is expansion), I think the AL/NL thing is gone. Too much travel in MLB for there not to be a geographic basis for the divisions.

 

[broncosmitty]

I think that IF the do a full realignment (a given if there is expansion), I think the AL/NL thing is gone. Too much travel in MLB for there not to be a geographic basis for the divisions.

That’d be a major mistake imo.

Guess I haven’t looked hard enough at what a dissolution of the leagues could do as far as saving travel distances. Teams like Detroit, Cleveland and the Chicagos are going to always be near the bottom in travel distance. While the Miami’s and Seattle’s will have to travel the most. Regardless of leagues.

 

[Cedrique]

My modified proposal, assuming Vegas As and Montreal Rays, and Vancouver and Portland as expansion (that won’t happen, but it makes realignment somewhat easier)…

California
SF
SD
LAA
LAD

Pacific
Minnesota
Portland
Seattle
Vancouver

West
Arz
Col
Mil
Vegas

Plains
ChW
ChC
KC
StL

North
Bal
Cle
Det
Cin

Atlantic
DC
NYM
Phi
Pit

East
Bos
Mon
NYY
Tor

SE
Atl
Hou
Tex
Mia


Not a big fan of the Plains, West, or Pacific divisions. Plains has both Chicago teams and California has both LA teams. I think it is best to separate those. Mil and Min are just thrown into random divisions, which I am sure there is a better solution. Maybe get rid of one of Portland/VANCOUVER AND PUT BOTH mil and Min in the pacific? Then add Utah to the West and swap Vegas and the Angels?

That looks pretty close to a good solution. Maybe if Nashville comes on board it could take the place of one of the Chicago teams. But then where do you move the Chicago team? Has anyone tried to solve the expansion puzzle using Chatgpt?

 

[MilkSpiller22]

We’re never going to see divisions with two teams in the same city.

but why??

we have same states in the same division... not sure if cities changes anything...

I don't think it matters as long as the major rivalries in the league remain in the same divisions...

it is going to be easiest to do the divisions like basketball and hockey do... football only works because it is football and there is 17 games...

it will certainly be different... but it is true that there is no need for AL/NL anymore...

 

[calsnowskier]

but why??

we have same states in the same division... not sure if cities changes anything...

I don't think it matters as long as the major rivalries in the league remain in the same divisions...

it is going to be easiest to do the divisions like basketball and hockey do... football only works because it is football and there is 17 games...

it will certainly be different... but it is true that there is no need for AL/NL anymore...

I suspect they would like teams in the same market to be in different markets so that more teams can be featured in that market. And it increases the chance that a fan will follow both teams if they don’t step on each other.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I suspect they would like teams in the same market to be in different markets so that more teams can be featured in that market. And it increases the chance that a fan will follow both teams if they don’t step on each other.

Idk... fans already hate the other team in the market,.. pretty easy to make them into a real rivalry... not the fake interleague rivalry...

 

[broncosmitty]

but why??

we have same states in the same division... not sure if cities changes anything...

I don't think it matters as long as the major rivalries in the league remain in the same divisions...

it is going to be easiest to do the divisions like basketball and hockey do... football only works because it is football and there is 17 games...

it will certainly be different... but it is true that there is no need for AL/NL anymore...

So one of the three or four major markets isn’t focused sorely on one league.

No need for AL/NL does seem like reality to me. Many people are fans of one league. And pay almost no attention to the other.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

So one of the three or four major markets isn’t focused sorely on one league.

No need for AL/NL does seem like reality to me. Many people are fans of one league. And pay almost no attention to the other.

I agree about the big markets dominating, but don't we have that problem already??

I mean, we really only have a handful of teams that are willing to spend money... kind of the problem with baseball altogether...

i

 

[steveringo]

Do we really think the rays are going to move out of Florida??

It is an interesting question.

IMO, Florida just can't support two teams... TB is in first and they're pulling 18k per game (25th in league) and that is very high for them... Miami is drawing even less....

TB has already been in discussion with Montreal to play some of their games up there (which would be awesome!) I'm actually hoping that (if there is expansion), MLB just 'urges' them to move...