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Whose the better coach?

Beengay fudgepackers

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the GM and coach are collaborative in tenured coach situations, to think otherwise is asinine. So to give the coach no credit in the drafts, not logical. To give the GM no credit is also asinine. They intertwine in situations, logic tells us that.
Nope. GMs get the last call. Since we don’t know how much pull Tomlin has in the draft room, we can’t assume he has any. Didn’t he win with mostly Cowhers players anyway? I really don’t know, I don’t follow the Steelers too closely.
 

SteelersPride

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Nope. GMs get the last call. Since we don’t know how much pull Tomlin has in the draft room, we can’t assume he has any. Didn’t he win with mostly Cowhers players anyway? I really don’t know, I don’t follow the Steelers too closely.
Oh we're going with that argument. So Nagy won last year with MOSTLY fox's guys, over half right? And to think he was coach of the year right?

plus why didn't cowher win with cowhers players.
 

TheBurgh88

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Oh we're going with that argument. So Nagy won last year with MOSTLY fox's guys, over half right? And to think he was coach of the year right?

plus why didn't cowher win with cowhers players.

I think he did. He had average-mediocre QB's until Big Ben came along. He went 15-1 with Big Ben as a rookie. To me that is rather impressive. He won the Super Bowl in Ben's second season. By the 3rd year which was also Cowher's last season he had a lot of personal issues and had checked out. He should have walked out after the Super Bowl win in my opinion because it resulted in a mediocre 2006 season and walked away as a champ like Jimmy Johnson did.

How many players from the 2005 championship also started on the 2008 Super Bowl which Tomlin won? Virtually everyone of name came from the Cowher regime. The only impact starters were Woodley and maybe Ryan Clark that were brought in by Tomlin.

To pretend that they weren't mostly Cowher's players is a bit disingenuous.

Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl in his 2nd season as well and I would be the first to say he won it with mostly Johnson's roster. I think most people would agree.

I am just stating facts.

If Tomlin can rebuild the Steelers and win another Super Bowl I will feel otherwise but until then I don't.

NOTE: I am not comparing the career of Tomlin vs Switzer just the Super Bowl wins and when they occurred.
 

SteelersPride

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I think he did. He had average-mediocre QB's until Big Ben came along. He went 15-1 with Big Ben as a rookie. To me that is rather impressive. He won the Super Bowl in Ben's second season. By the 3rd year which was also Cowher's last season he had a lot of personal issues and had checked out. He should have walked out after the Super Bowl win in my opinion because it resulted in a mediocre 2006 season and walked away as a champ like Jimmy Johnson did.

How many players from the 2005 championship also started on the 2008 Super Bowl which Tomlin won? Virtually everyone of name came from the Cowher regime. The only impact starters were Woodley and maybe Ryan Clark that were brought in by Tomlin.

To pretend that they weren't mostly Cowher's players is a bit disingenuous.

Barry Switzer won a Super Bowl in his 2nd season as well and I would be the first to say he won it with mostly Johnson's roster. I think most people would agree.

I am just stating facts.

If Tomlin can rebuild the Steelers and win another Super Bowl I will feel otherwise but until then I don't.

NOTE: I am not comparing the career of Tomlin vs Switzer just the Super Bowl wins and when they occurred.
again, why didnt he keep winning, like you said, factors come into play. You cant give one a pass, but then fault the other for winning with the same guys.

To say nagy is coach of the year, with fox's guys is ludicrous. Its also a pure cop out. I was just told earlier in this thread, gm picks the players....

Its amusing that the same things other coaches do, tomlin gets crucified for by our fan base.

grudens superbowl is discredited to, since it was dungy's team right?

doug pederson too, that wasnt his team
 
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HammerDown

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I like Tomlin more. The Steelers probably make it to and win more Super Bowls if not for New England being handed an annual first-round bye by the league.
:fify:
 

SteelersPride

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I think Payton has better control over his team than Tomlin does.. Probably a better football X's and O's coach as well.
Care to explain on better control? Since bounty gate happened on his watch. Also, tomlin held ab n friends in check for years. Not saying your wrong. Just curious the rationale.
 

richig07

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The difference is that Payton is still very good, while any claim that Tomlin had to that sailed years ago.
 

SteelersPride

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The difference is that Payton is still very good, while any claim that Tomlin had to that sailed years ago.
how is payton still very good, and tomlin's claim out the window, again, curious. Payton just crapped the bed again FWIW
 

Shanemansj13

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how is payton still very good, and tomlin's claim out the window, again, curious. Payton just crapped the bed again FWIW

Not sure how he ever "crapped the bed"

Two years ago, crazy Minny play wins the game, could put that on him.
One year ago, blown call...if not they win the game and go to the SB.
This year, Brees aging, worst career playoff game possibly.

Tomlin won a SB with Cowher's players. He deserves credit of course. Still one of the best coaches in the NFL but Payton is a better X and O guy for sure.

Not saying one is much better than the other but I will take Payton.

Payton immediately took over the Saints and transformed them with not the best defensive talent. Great offensive scheme and gameplan.

Tomlin better defensive guy, Payton better offensive guy but Payton overall has my vote.
 

SteelersPride

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Not sure how he ever "crapped the bed"

Two years ago, crazy Minny play wins the game, could put that on him.
One year ago, blown call...if not they win the game and go to the SB.
This year, Brees aging, worst career playoff game possibly.

Tomlin won a SB with Cowher's players. He deserves credit of course. Still one of the best coaches in the NFL but Payton is a better X and O guy for sure.

Not saying one is much better than the other but I will take Payton.

Payton immediately took over the Saints and transformed them with not the best defensive talent. Great offensive scheme and gameplan.

Tomlin better defensive guy, Payton better offensive guy but Payton overall has my vote.

Im actually kinda sick of the blown call excuse. 1. Dont let it get to that point. 2. You benefited from a missed face exactly 1 drive prior. One was more blatant, but both have the same results. Regardless, 2 home playoff games, as favorites, 2 losses. Saints were also favored against minny. So 3 playoff losses in a row as favs.

Brees aging? yes. But to use that as an excuse? seriously? Did you see his numbers this year? FANTASTIC. But were gonna play the aging card on one game?:nono:. upload_2020-1-15_12-38-38.png
Im certainly not seeing an "aging" qb. Numbers as good or better than hes had in years. 74% completion percentage? 27-4 TD to int ratio. 116 qb rating. 74.2 QBR. I'll wait for a rebuttal on this.

Tomlin won with cowhers players? Why didnt cowher win with cowhers players. Also, if we are going to use that argument. Then please discredit the following superbowls. Because all of these coaches won with a team within their first 2 years of coaching, therefore, it wasn't their players. Right? Ill just use recent ones. So are all these superbowls not valid as well?
Billick in 2000
Bellichick in 2001
Gruden 2002
Tomlin 2008
Kubiak 2015
Pederson 2018

You could be right in your assessment of who is better, but the rationale is a bit flawed.......
 

SteelersPride

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Lets not forget the LaFleur is winning with McCarthy's players.
 
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