What in the Foles???

[Rey]

Regardless of what happens next week, this guy continues to earn major respect and props!

 

[Rey]

So what would you guys do with Foles moving forward? The last couple of weeks this team has woken up and decided to fight and make plays. That same fire has not been there since the Super Bowl. This Offense which had looked lethargic and lost all year has looked like the a Super Bowl Offense since Foles took over. Could Foles play like this if he were the QB all year? This wan't the same QB that started the first 2 games for us ... can Foles only play like this in a relief / savior role?

Let's say the unthinkable happens and the Vikes lose next week and Foles has another great showing in a win ... let's say we even win a playoff game or two, can we just dismiss Foles as "our" guy and simply move back to Wentz?

ooooor do we trade Wentz for 2 first rounders, move forward with Foles and sign LeVeon Bell? Sorry ... couldn't resist ...

 

[old duke]

Howie works out a deal to give Foles a deal in the vicinity of $15M for 3 years or so. We really can control Carson for 2 or 3 years. Nick will understand that he is the backup, and will get some playing time if Carson is healthy, and he will not have to uproot his family again. Nick is not all about the $$, and won;t like it if he finishes his career with a lousy team. We know he is the heir to a fortune from his Dad. Peters, Long, graham, and many others will not be back, so Howie can get some cap room.

 

[eaglesnut]

This is the right thread to predict Carson Wentz wins the Super Bowl this year.

 

[PhillyGreen]

This is the right thread to predict Carson Wentz wins the Super Bowl this year.

The Defense does not have what it takes. No matter how far we get if someone else does not take out the Saints we will not and the Bears defense will eat us alive IMO.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Howie works out a deal to give Foles a deal in the vicinity of $15M for 3 years or so. We really can control Carson for 2 or 3 years. Nick will understand that he is the backup, and will get some playing time if Carson is healthy, and he will not have to uproot his family again. Nick is not all about the $$, and won;t like it if he finishes his career with a lousy team. We know he is the heir to a fortune from his Dad. Peters, Long, graham, and many others will not be back, so Howie can get some cap room.

This makes sense but it all depends on if Foles wants to be a starter somewhere. IMO Foles will always be the QB for a team until the QB of the future is ready. It does not matter the team. In Philly a healthy Carson Wentz is easily better than Nick Foles.

 

[eaglesnut]

The Defense does not have what it takes. No matter how far we get if someone else does not take out the Saints we will not and the Bears defense will eat us alive IMO.

Ok

 

[Orlando Eagles]

So what would you guys do with Foles moving forward? The last couple of weeks this team has woken up and decided to fight and make plays. That same fire has not been there since the Super Bowl. This Offense which had looked lethargic and lost all year has looked like the a Super Bowl Offense since Foles took over. Could Foles play like this if he were the QB all year? This wan't the same QB that started the first 2 games for us ... can Foles only play like this in a relief / savior role?

Let's say the unthinkable happens and the Vikes lose next week and Foles has another great showing in a win ... let's say we even win a playoff game or two, can we just dismiss Foles as "our" guy and simply move back to Wentz?

ooooor do we trade Wentz for 2 first rounders, move forward with Foles and sign LeVeon Bell? Sorry ... couldn't resist ...

I really love Foles and what he does in these spots. Wentz looked like crap this year.

All that said....Foles has had the helm twice with this team to start the season and been underwhelming. Three times now he has come off the bench as the savior and been lights out. I love what he does in these spots, but I’m leery of giving him the reins fully.

Wentz has been crap this year (saying it again). But he proved last year what he has and he was recovering/banged up this year.

So it’s Foles and his lapses as a starter at points or Wentz, who could be injury prone. All of that said....I’ll take Wentz and youth.

I do like Dukes idea some. We have two years (with option) on Wentz. Maybe stretch Foles to three years with a cap friendly out after two years. Foles isn’t about the money...so he would need to take at least a little less than 15M. Cap is going to be a challenge next year no matter who doesn’t come back.

But does the team really want that noise? Wentz working to come back and the “footsteps” he could hear at any point of struggle?

It’s a lot to contemplate and too soon to do it....but it is interesting. A good problem to have is still good.

 

[PhillyGreen]

I really love Foles and what he does in these spots. Wentz looked like crap this year.

All that said....Foles has had the helm twice with this team to start the season and been underwhelming. Three times now he has come off the bench as the savior and been lights out. I love what he does in these spots, but I’m leery of giving him the reins fully.

Wentz has been crap this year (saying it again). But he proved last year what he has and he was recovering/banged up this year.

So it’s Foles and his lapses as a starter at points or Wentz, who could be injury prone. All of that said....I’ll take Wentz and youth.

I do like Dukes idea some. We have two years (with option) on Wentz. Maybe stretch Foles to three years with a cap friendly out after two years. Foles isn’t about the money...so he would need to take at least a little less than 15M. Cap is going to be a challenge next year no matter who doesn’t come back.

But does the team really want that noise? Wentz working to come back and the “footsteps” he could hear at any point of struggle?

It’s a lot to contemplate and too soon to do it....but it is interesting. A good problem to have is still good.

To say Wentz has been crap this year is a bit of a reach.

Taken from a post I made in another thread:

He had a torn ACL/LCL that he still has not fully recovered from as well as a back injury that he has been dealing with for some time. So with that said he was still the 7th rated QB in the NFL. 12th in pass yards (used yards per game to come up with that). He is 4th in completion percentage. He is 10th in TD passes. His YPA at 7.67 is respectable and has him 13th. He is 10th in QBR. I find that stat useless but put it there for those that think it matters.

I am sorry but you don't put up numbers like that playing like crap all year.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

To say Wentz has been crap this year is a bit of a reach.

Taken from a post I made in another thread:

He had a torn ACL/LCL that he still has not fully recovered from as well as a back injury that he has been dealing with for some time. So with that said he was still the 7th rated QB in the NFL. 12th in pass yards (used yards per game to come up with that). He is 4th in completion percentage. He is 10th in TD passes. His YPA at 7.67 is respectable and has him 13th. He is 10th in QBR. I find that stat useless but put it there for those that think it matters.

I am sorry but you don't put up numbers like that playing like crap all year.

Fair points. I glazed a bit past the injuries, but mentioned them in there too.

Im pro Wentz here. I didn’t like him being put back out so quick. Ligaments take a full year. Period. I’ve felt that since summer. You take what you get this year and you let your franchise QB recover.

His numbers were good. Great even. More proof he is the guy going forward. But it just all wasn’t clicking. And it looked like crap.

Maybe that’s better way to say it. Regardless of how good the stats looked he never looked very comfortable out there. He locked on reads and wasn’t working progressions. To me it looked like crap. I just felt he was rushed back too quick.

 

[PhillyGreen]

Fair points. I glazed a bit past the injuries, but mentioned them in there too.

Im pro Wentz here. I didn’t like him being put back out so quick. Ligaments take a full year. Period. I’ve felt that since summer. You take what you get this year and you let your franchise QB recover.

His numbers were good. Great even. More proof he is the guy going forward. But it just all wasn’t clicking. And it looked like crap.

Maybe that’s better way to say it. Regardless of how good the stats looked he never looked very comfortable out there. He locked on reads and wasn’t working progressions. To me it looked like crap. I just felt he was rushed back too quick.

The difference with Foles and Wentz is that Doug dummies down the offense when Foles is in. Not because Wentz is smarter but because he does not have the arm that Wentz has. When Foles is in Doug runs the ball more.....but today was different. We passed the ball quite often today but I guess it makes sense since the Texans pass defense is not really much better than ours.

What is lost in all of this is the fact that this is Wentz 3rd season as an NFL QB and he is coming off a major injury. Young QB's need reps on top of reps. Wentz had zero offseason work, no training camp and no pre-season games. Then in week 3 he comes in and is expected to put up MVP numbers all the while dealing with other injuries on top of his ACL/LCL injuries. Foles is a veteran and a good one. He will never be elite but he will always be good IMO. Wentz has the talent and potential to be the best QB in the NFL. People just need to stop expecting a 3rd year QB to be Aaron Rodgers.

I am willing to bet that if we were to put Wentz on the market for 2 #1 draft picks 20-25 NFL teams will be calling willing to take that deal and throw in their starting QB for good measure.

 

[Rey]

If I was sure Foles would play with the same mindset all year as he does when he comes into in savior mode ... I would sign him long term and get a king's ransom back for Wentz. The problem is that Foles has proven over the years that when he's counted on from the jump, he's not the same player. I think he puts way too much pressure on himself when he's "the man" as opposed to playing loose when he comes in as the relief pitcher and does not perform with the same mindset. As the team's #1 he's Clark Kent ... as the savior he's Superman.

With that in mind I would still try and re-sign him as the highest paid #2 in the league. I don't think he wants to go anywhere else as he is already set for life with family money on top of NFL money. His status in Philly will also reach legendary status if we make it into the playoffs this season. Even if we don't go far into the playoffs the fact that we would even get in this year after many had already written off the season .. speaks volumes. If by some miracle we were to somehow make the Super Bowl again I think Wentz himself may ask for a trade as Foles would have a key to the city for life.

 

[Orlando Eagles]

If I was sure Foles would play with the same mindset all year as he does when he comes into in savior mode ... I would sign him long term and get a king's ransom back for Wentz. The problem is that Foles has proven over the years that when he's counted on from the jump, he's not the same player. I think he puts way too much pressure on himself when he's "the man" as opposed to playing loose when he comes in as the relief pitcher and does not perform with the same mindset. As the team's #1 he's Clark Kent ... as the savior he's Superman.

With that in mind I would still try and re-sign him as the highest paid #2 in the league. I don't think he wants to go anywhere else as he is already set for life with family money on top of NFL money. His status in Philly will also reach legendary status if we make it into the playoffs this season. Even if we don't go far into the playoffs the fact that we would even get in this year after many had already written off the season .. speaks volumes. If by some miracle we were to somehow make the Super Bowl again I think Wentz himself may ask for a trade as Foles would have a key to the city for life.

Clark Kent and Superman....that’s a perfect analogy. I cannot agree more. Consistency with Foles is the key. A healthy Wentz, with plenty of reps, offers far more upside. A locked in Foles for two more years as a backup makes total sense.

I feel like the coaches helped feed this nonsense. That needs to be a corrective lesson for them. They do a lot of work with Foles to simplify things. They work their ass off when Foles is coming off the bench. With Wentz in they seem to slack off. Like it’s ok.....the kid is in there, he will make things happen. That was one of the grossest oversights this year. They should have been catering to where Wentz was at mentally and physically long before his back became a thing. I honestly believe the great response from the offense overall with Foles in their has everything to do with the playbook getting simplified, and not to do with “the players want to play harder for Foles”. That’s bullshit.

Maybe it’s Doug and his experience being a backup. Maybe Favre really didn’t need much customization and that’s what he knows as a former player. Starters just do and backups need support.

Either way that’s a huge thing the coaches need to fix in themselves this offseason.

 

[Yo Tee]

Foles > Wentz

 

[Screamin Eagle]

So what would you guys do with Foles moving forward? The last couple of weeks this team has woken up and decided to fight and make plays. That same fire has not been there since the Super Bowl. This Offense which had looked lethargic and lost all year has looked like the a Super Bowl Offense since Foles took over. Could Foles play like this if he were the QB all year? This wan't the same QB that started the first 2 games for us ... can Foles only play like this in a relief / savior role?

Let's say the unthinkable happens and the Vikes lose next week and Foles has another great showing in a win ... let's say we even win a playoff game or two, can we just dismiss Foles as "our" guy and simply move back to Wentz?

ooooor do we trade Wentz for 2 first rounders, move forward with Foles and sign LeVeon Bell? Sorry ... couldn't resist ...

How can one not like what Foles has done for Philadelphia!?
I for one have serious concerns about Wentz injury history and his play making skills. Not saying he can't be great but I do have concerns. He is an excellent athlete but not all athletes translate to great players.
If a team offered up 2, 1's and a 3rd I would have to give it serious thought.

 

[old duke]

I don't think we'd get a kings ransom for Carson, because of his injury history. We'd only get one 1st pick, plus maybe a #2 or 3 in addition. So, then a couple of years, he goes on to be a stud for 10 years with another team. No thanks, I keep him here for the rest of his career. In a year or two at the most, he will grow out of the injury bug. Many have said it correctly, as a starter, Nick becomes an average QB.

 

[Iggloo]

Foles is a straight up Philly legend for all time.

 

[djm]

Wentz is my choice. He is still learning to play the QB position. I would like to see us find Peters' replacement and get a #1 RB. I would not be opposed to grabbing a LG either. I think our defense let us down more than our offense.

If we could add a couple pieces and stay healthy there is no reason to think we can't do really well next year.

 

[Rey]

The biggest problem I saw this year with Wentz was holding onto the ball too long. What changed from last year to this year when it comes to that part of his game ... I don't know. He also stopped throwing people open ... it became tunnel vision to Ertz. When receivers stop getting chances unless they are college open, they won't play nearly as hard; quite often you could see the frustration in their demeanor (especially Alshon). I get that Wentz probably came back too early from the injury ... but shouldn't that make him actually get rid of the ball quicker?

Foles on the other hand is getting the ball out of there in Brady like fashion the past 2 games and the difference in the Offense is clear. Even with Jason Peters getting hurt early (Big V is horrible) and going against one of the best pass rushing teams in the league ... he still got it done. He's also spreading it around and giving receivers deep shots, thus keeping them involved. All of a sudden Nelson Agholor looks like a player again ... the Back is getting used in the passing game again ...

 

[Orlando Eagles]

I don't think we'd get a kings ransom for Carson, because of his injury history. We'd only get one 1st pick, plus maybe a #2 or 3 in addition. So, then a couple of years, he goes on to be a stud for 10 years with another team. No thanks, I keep him here for the rest of his career. In a year or two at the most, he will grow out of the injury bug. Many have said it correctly, as a starter, Nick becomes an average QB.

A first and a second sounds totally reasonable given the doubts that would rise in such a discussion. A first and third even more realistic. Point is....that’s less than we gave to draft him. You just don’t do that.

The “injury prone” is a viable argument. However, there really isn’t a choice but to gamble with it.

Nick has been god like coming of the bench. But he has known challenges with consistency when having the reins.