Game Thread: Week 17: Seahawks @ Panthers - 10AM PST

[WizardHawk]

Still flawed thinking. Turnovers are turnovers regardless of quarter the team is in. First half turnovers throws the offense in funks, extra possessions for the opposing teams to score can bury teams quickly with some to little chance of recovery. Basically it's losing a game in the first half instead of late 4th quarter.

No one is saying Darnold is the sole reason why Seattle sucks in the first half but his decision making has to get better or it's an early exit out of the playoffs.

If Darnold is clutch this week late I'll say he's getting over that hurdle. His late play vs Rams was a step in that direction

 

[flyerhawk]

If Darnold is clutch this week late I'll say he's getting over that hurdle. His late play vs Rams was a step in that direction

I would say his play late against the Colts and against the Panthers was very encouraging.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Still flawed thinking. Turnovers are turnovers regardless of quarter the team is in. First half turnovers throws the offense in funks, extra possessions for the opposing teams to score can bury teams quickly with some to little chance of recovery. Basically it's losing a game in the first half instead of late 4th quarter.

No one is saying Darnold is the sole reason why Seattle sucks in the first half but his decision making has to get better or it's an early exit out of the playoffs.

If he throws a complete miss or directly to a defender it's a bad decision, but if he throws it where it's supposed to go and a defender gets a hand on it to deflect it, or it bounces of a helmet, or worst of all is if it hits a Seahawk receiver but he bobbles it, and then gets intercepted that is not a bad decision. That's bad luck or good defense or even poor catching skills. Not every pick is on the QB, in fact I'd argue that most picks in the NFL are deflections and fluky.

 

[Anointed One]

If Darnold is clutch this week late I'll say he's getting over that hurdle. His late play vs Rams was a step in that direction

Doesn’t have to be late. If he can play well in this kind of a game, it would be a step in the right direction. This game is an opportunity to get another monkey off his back. This is pretty close to the same situation he was in last year with Vikings vs Lions in week 18…

 

[MrS]

Doesn’t have to be late. If he can play well in this kind of a game, it would be a step in the right direction. This game is an opportunity to get another monkey off his back. This is pretty close to the same situation he was in last year with Vikings vs Lions in week 18…

Its his opportunity to complete the redemption arc, God willing he pull it off

 

[WizardHawk]

Doesn’t have to be late. If he can play well in this kind of a game, it would be a step in the right direction. This game is an opportunity to get another monkey off his back. This is pretty close to the same situation he was in last year with Vikings vs Lions in week 18…

He's played well in big games before. I was specifically talking about the knock on him about being clutch late in big games. Driving to win it, driving to kill the time and preserve the lead. That sort of thing.

 

[Anointed One]

If he throws a complete miss or directly to a defender it's a bad decision, but if he throws it where it's supposed to go and a defender gets a hand on it to deflect it, or it bounces of a helmet, or worst of all is if it hits a Seahawk receiver but he bobbles it, and then gets intercepted that is not a bad decision. That's bad luck or good defense or even poor catching skills. Not every pick is on the QB, in fact I'd argue that most picks in the NFL are deflections and fluky.

Too much of a gray area with that philosophy. I see what you’re saying though. What I mean by gray is this. What if a QB threw slightly behind his receiver allowing the defender to tip it and it’s picked off. How would you measure that?

 

[flyerhawk]

Too much of a gray area with that philosophy. I see what you’re saying though. What I mean by gray is this. What if he threw slightly behind his receiver allowing the defender to tip it and it’s picked off. How would you measure that?

And what if the receiver ran the wrong route?

That's the problem. The QB gets the blame but it is often not really his fault.

 

[dkmightyhammer]

Too much of a gray area with that philosophy. I see what you’re saying though. What I mean by gray is this. What if a QB threw slightly behind his receiver allowing the defender to tip it and it’s picked off. How would you measure that?

Exactly. All picks are not equal. I've said for years that the NFL need to add a stat line for INT's. Something like earned INT and unearned INT. It would be judgement call by the refs but it would be a much more accurate accounting of fluky INTs.

 

[flyerhawk]

I know that Bradford is often the scapegoat and he does have a bunch of brainfart plays. But he also has some absolutely dominant plays...

 

[DHoey]

We are asking less of Darnie than we asked of Russ when we won our Super Bowl. Both defenses are elite. Russ had a better running game but still needed to hit big plays. We need Sam to stay aggressive and take the good with the bad. We don’t have the dominant running game to rely on. We need an effective running game to set up the play action our offense is based on now. You can neuter Sam now. Gotta let it rip and let the pieces fall where they may.

 

[MrS]

We are asking less of Darnie than we asked of Russ when we won our Super Bowl. Both defenses are elite. Russ had a better running game but still needed to hit big plays. We need Sam to stay aggressive and take the good with the bad. We don’t have the dominant running game to rely on. We need an effective running game to set up the play action our offense is based on now. You can neuter Sam now. Gotta let it rip and let the pieces fall where they may.

This is why i think we need an elite RB and an upgrade on the OL. Play action was the bread and butter early on but it fell off. We get that dominant run game going and Darnold will kill it with Play action.

 

[DHoey]

This is why i think we need an elite RB and an upgrade on the OL. Play action was the bread and butter early on but it fell off. We get that dominant run game going and Darnold will kill it with Play action.

We ran a lot of PA yesterday. Charbs also had a great day too.

 

[Screamin12th]

What you guys are looking for is "Turnover Worthy plays". These are passes/plays that were or should have been a turnover that was completely the QB's fault. Not tipped batted balls or when it hits a WR in the hands and bounces up for a pick.

In a typical year Turnover worthy plays end up as a turn over a average of around 70% of the time. Sam Darnolds INT rate on Turnover worthy plays at one point was over 90% meaning he had above average bad luck. the flip of that was when we had a QB's who had turnovers On 46% of turnover worthy plays. Thats a lot of good luck. Not all INT's are created equal but they try to wade through it with TWP. I no longer have a PFF account so i can't check it any more.

It's the only metric they have in place to try and figure out what is on who. It's not perfect but neither is grading out Olineman.

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

If he throws a complete miss or directly to a defender it's a bad decision, but if he throws it where it's supposed to go and a defender gets a hand on it to deflect it, or it bounces of a helmet, or worst of all is if it hits a Seahawk receiver but he bobbles it, and then gets intercepted that is not a bad decision. That's bad luck or good defense or even poor catching skills. Not every pick is on the QB, in fact I'd argue that most picks in the NFL are deflections and fluky.

I totally agree it's bad luck but I'm not here saying the turnovers are all on Darnold. All I'm saying is turnovers in the first half can be just as devasting to a team as turnovers in the 2nd half.

 

[flyerhawk]

We are asking less of Darnie than we asked of Russ when we won our Super Bowl. Both defenses are elite. Russ had a better running game but still needed to hit big plays. We need Sam to stay aggressive and take the good with the bad. We don’t have the dominant running game to rely on. We need an effective running game to set up the play action our offense is based on now. You can neuter Sam now. Gotta let it rip and let the pieces fall where they may.

I don't think we are asking more of Darnold than the 2013 was asking of Russ. We had a more effective running game for Russ.

 

[Screamin12th]

I totally agree it's bad luck but I'm not here saying the turnovers are all on Darnold. All I'm saying is turnovers in the first half can be just as devasting to a team as turnovers in the 2nd half.

Any turnover is devastating no matter when it happens in the game but where it happens can be even more so. ( inside the redzones yours or theirs )

 

[PolarVortex]

We are asking less of Darnie than we asked of Russ when we won our Super Bowl. Both defenses are elite. Russ had a better running game but still needed to hit big plays. We need Sam to stay aggressive and take the good with the bad. We don’t have the dominant running game to rely on. We need an effective running game to set up the play action our offense is based on now. You can neuter Sam now. Gotta let it rip and let the pieces fall where they may.

"Darnie?"
Seriously?

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Any turnover is devastating no matter when it happens in the game but where it happens can be even more so. ( inside the redzones yours or theirs )

Agree with this statement.

 

[MrS]

We ran a lot of PA yesterday. Charbs also had a great day too.

It didn't result in big chunk plays down field, its been Missing from this offense since the loss to the rams.