• Have something to say? Register Now! and be posting in minutes!

VIDEO: Thorough Analysis on Everything Wrong With the Offense

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,809
3,084
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I thought this was worth a share. Really takes on both Nagy, the O-line and Trubisky head-on.


TL;DW summary:
  • Nagy has no idea how to design running plays, like even at a conceptual level
  • The offensive line is being completely misused and/or fucking up a ton
  • Nagy overdesigns a LOT, but on run plays especially
  • Pass-wise, Nagy's good at drawing up these plays
  • Adam Shaheen is shit
  • The Jet Sweep to Patterson should be scrapped forever
  • Players often failed to execute when the playcalls were good, particularly on the offensive line
  • Trubisky needs to step up into the goddamn pocket
  • Trubisky hesitates a lot, and it breaks the entire offense
  • Trubisky has a horrid deep ball
  • Trubisky's mechanics are and always have been poor
  • Trubisky's post-snap processing is non-existent
  • Defensive backs often control Trubisky's eyes, which never move
  • Trubisky hesitates and freezes up when the time for making plays is needed
 

Nelly

Respectin' hoes, nationwide
4,755
1,968
173
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Location
Chicago
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
NFL claims copyright on it. Bullshit.
 

Nelly

Respectin' hoes, nationwide
4,755
1,968
173
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Location
Chicago
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Weird. I found the video through a search on YouTube and it works, but not through the link in the OP.

Here's what the maker of the video put up:

So this is undoubtedly my longest video I've ever made (by about 10 minutes, which is ridiculous), so let me know what you thought of both the length and the general video quality. Believe it or not there were some things I either forgot to mention or didn't, so I'll leave them here and you can consider them general addendums to the points in the video:

1) I get the impression that Matt Nagy doesn't actually have a "plan" when it comes to running the ball. His run calls seem to have a "shotgun-style" approach in nature -- an almost random smattering of power, trickery, inside-zone, outside-zone plays that aren't really all that cohesive. I think this is because he's so accustomed to having a quality passing game (which I think I proved well that he's good at scheming) that he views the run as "complimentary to the passing game" rather than "foundational to the offense". Feel more than free to disagree with his premise, but that's what I'm seeing in his offense. With that in mind, this season of working around a QB that isn't performing might be good for him in that it'll force him to figure out how to establish his offense via running the football which I legitimately think that's new to him. He made major progress on this front in Week 8, so I'm curious to see what he'll do from here.

2) One of the major criticisms of Matt Nagy right now is that he's "not adapting his offense to Mitch's strengths" and I think that's a bit unfair -- Matt Nagy right now calls about 3 times as many hitch, curl, and out routes when Mitch is in the game compared to the two games we saw Daniel play (admittedly low sample size). He's also completely veered away from the 60% pass -- 40% run balance he usually "wants" to achieve (opting for more 50/50 balance) deliberately to support Mitch. He's also, as I point out in the video, designing most of his plays around a maximum of 1 downfield read and Mitch is still struggling with those concepts. I'll be the first to tell you that there are things that Nagy could do to theoretically increase production a little bit this year, but I don't mind Nagy's offense demanding that Mitch rise up to the level of "solid NFL QB" or fail. Trubisky should be making more plays than he is, he currently doesn't get any more out of Nagy's playcalls than the base level of execution would, and I think that's a big problem for a quarterback in his 3rd year. Basically, it's reasonable to believe that Nagy is doing everything he can to help his QB out offensively while also trying to "take the training wheels off" from the 2018 offense and truly "see what Mitch has got". Given how important it is to know what you have in a QB, I can't fault this approach, and in the next 9 games we should both get a much better picture of who Trubisky is as a QB while also getting a great window into how Nagy adapts to what I'm sure is his personal nightmare scenario (his QB holds his offense back).

3) Remember: all NFL QBs can make great plays, good NFL QBs make great plays consistently. It's not highlights that are Trubisky's problem, it's that the highlights are inconsistent (and dwindling) while the lowlights are not. That's a huge, huge problem for Trubisky. And while many will want to "blame Nagy for not developing his QB", some players just don't have it at the NFL level -- based on what I'm seeing, Trubisky's problems are more basic play-to-play quarterbacking than they are poor directional development. His post-snap processing gives us a great window into that -- because he's actually learned to make decent pre-snap reads, you can tell he's getting coaching that's making him better. But you can't really teach post-snap processing, you just have to be able to handle it on the fly, and Trubisky doesn't look fast enough to succeed at the NFL level right now. I wish he did, but he doesn't.

Those are the three major points I think I left out of the video and I'll update this if anything else comes to mind -- thanks so much everybody!
 

Nelly

Respectin' hoes, nationwide
4,755
1,968
173
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Location
Chicago
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
TL;DW summary:
  • Nagy has no idea how to design running plays, like even at a conceptual level
  • The offensive line is being completely misused and/or fucking up a ton
  • Nagy overdesigns a LOT, but on run plays especially
  • Pass-wise, Nagy's good at drawing up these plays
  • Adam Shaheen is shit
  • The Jet Sweep to Patterson should be scrapped forever
  • Players often failed to execute when the playcalls were good, particularly on the offensive line
  • Trubisky needs to step up into the goddamn pocket
  • Trubisky hesitates a lot, and it breaks the entire offense
  • Trubisky has a horrid deep ball
  • Trubisky's mechanics are and always have been poor
  • Trubisky's post-snap processing is non-existent
  • Defensive backs often control Trubisky's eyes, which never move
  • Trubisky hesitates and freezes up when the time for making plays is needed
Some points in response.
  1. He noted how the more obvious and simple runs plays actually had some success. It was the over designed ones that seemed to ask the offensive line to make impossible blocks were the ones that sank us. If he'd just eliminate those, we'd seem to be a step ahead of where we are now, including that sweep to Patterson. This was my problem with us getting and deciding to play Patterson so much, especially with how Trubisky is playing. If Patterson is motion, you almost certainly know it's coming to him on a handoff or toss, so the defense doesn't have to defend much.
  2. Adam Shaheen is indeed shit, but he only talked about that within the context of the drop in the endzone and a couple others. With Burton playing like shit, our tight ends have got to be close to a league worst right now.
  3. Looking at some of the play designs that the O line is asked to execute, it looks like it's less their problem than the design itself. Not that they've played great or anything.
  4. I think Trubisky's problems can be summed up simply: he's so in his own head. You can tell he's trying to check all the boxes of the mental checklist one-by-one and not just playing the damn game by feeling what's around him and trusting his instincts to make a play. On that one play with the Gabriel/Robinson double out-and-ups with single high safety, you could tell that he either knows or Nagy told him to read the safety then throw to the one-on-one. He didn't even look to see if Gabriel was open or not, just threw it to him. Didn't use the time he had in the pocket, didn't really look at Robinson and see that he had the DB beat based on the route. He's not processing the play as it happens, he's only processing it as it's supposed to work out. If the play doesn't unfold exactly how it's supposed to, Trubisky isn't in a headspace to go to secondary and tertiary options with any speed, conviction o accuracy. And considering how many picks he's thrown, you can tell that sometimes he's erring on the side of caution on the missed throws deep. If he severely overthrows then at least it doesn't get picked, so he's basically always overthrowing rather than trying to give his receiver a legit shot.
As much as Nagy wouldn't want to, he needs to go hard run based. Montgomery is really fucking good, the line can run block at least decently and it would set up play action to make things a little easier for Trubisky. At the end of the day, it's looking like Mitch just doesn't have that ability to see the field, read the defense and feel what's going on around him. He looked better last year when Nagy said he couldn't open the entire playbook since everyone was just learning it. Maybe we should go back to that with a heavier reliance on the run game. The defense isn't s good but it can still be good if we're not asking them to play for 40 minutes a game.
 

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,809
3,084
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Weird. I found the video through a search on YouTube and it works, but not through the link in the OP.

Here's what the maker of the video put up:

It does work if you click on the "watch on youtube" link in the video box. It just won't play on SportsHoopla.
 

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,809
3,084
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Some points in response.
  1. He noted how the more obvious and simple runs plays actually had some success. It was the over designed ones that seemed to ask the offensive line to make impossible blocks were the ones that sank us. If he'd just eliminate those, we'd seem to be a step ahead of where we are now, including that sweep to Patterson. This was my problem with us getting and deciding to play Patterson so much, especially with how Trubisky is playing. If Patterson is motion, you almost certainly know it's coming to him on a handoff or toss, so the defense doesn't have to defend much.
  2. Adam Shaheen is indeed shit, but he only talked about that within the context of the drop in the endzone and a couple others. With Burton playing like shit, our tight ends have got to be close to a league worst right now.
  3. Looking at some of the play designs that the O line is asked to execute, it looks like it's less their problem than the design itself. Not that they've played great or anything.
  4. I think Trubisky's problems can be summed up simply: he's so in his own head. You can tell he's trying to check all the boxes of the mental checklist one-by-one and not just playing the damn game by feeling what's around him and trusting his instincts to make a play. On that one play with the Gabriel/Robinson double out-and-ups with single high safety, you could tell that he either knows or Nagy told him to read the safety then throw to the one-on-one. He didn't even look to see if Gabriel was open or not, just threw it to him. Didn't use the time he had in the pocket, didn't really look at Robinson and see that he had the DB beat based on the route. He's not processing the play as it happens, he's only processing it as it's supposed to work out. If the play doesn't unfold exactly how it's supposed to, Trubisky isn't in a headspace to go to secondary and tertiary options with any speed, conviction o accuracy. And considering how many picks he's thrown, you can tell that sometimes he's erring on the side of caution on the missed throws deep. If he severely overthrows then at least it doesn't get picked, so he's basically always overthrowing rather than trying to give his receiver a legit shot.
As much as Nagy wouldn't want to, he needs to go hard run based. Montgomery is really fucking good, the line can run block at least decently and it would set up play action to make things a little easier for Trubisky. At the end of the day, it's looking like Mitch just doesn't have that ability to see the field, read the defense and feel what's going on around him. He looked better last year when Nagy said he couldn't open the entire playbook since everyone was just learning it. Maybe we should go back to that with a heavier reliance on the run game. The defense isn't s good but it can still be good if we're not asking them to play for 40 minutes a game.

I agree with most of this and don't have much to dispute. I just think Trubisky is completely overwhelmed at the NFL level. You can call it many different things. "He's hesitant" "He plays afraid" "He's in his own head"... but I think all of this circles back to "He's overwhelmed at this level of football".

As much as Nagy wouldn't want to, he needs to go hard run based. Montgomery is really fucking good, the line can run block at least decently and it would set up play action to make things a little easier for Trubisky.

Actually, I think this is what Nagy has been going for recently. We were able to make it happen vs LAC because we led most of the game and the run game got going early. It's always easier in theory, though. When you look at our first half drives vs Philly. It was constantly a loss of two yards, a penalty, etc... You're just NOT going to get the D to bite on play action in 2nd and 14 or 1st and 20. They're not going to buy it. The run game has to be working. It's also tough when you are down 19-0.

Even at that point, though. Nagy didn't abandon the run and it did wind-up opening up some nice pass plays for us. Plays that got us back into the game.

I also can't be the only one wondering what happens if Montgomery catches that screen when we were down 19-14 and around mid-field early in the 4th. That play call totally fooled Philly, everyone bit and it also appeared to be blocked very well. That was either going to be a TD or get us into the red zone.


 

averagejoe

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders.
13,245
7,166
533
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I'm probably gonna get blasted for this but if Nagy is over-complicating plays and the entire offense (from the O-line to the skill players) are not executing them smoothly or being misused, is it any wonder that Trubisky (who has more to learn than anyone else) hesitates and is clearly uncomfortable?
 

Peter Gozintite

NO!...but yes.
Hoopla Pickems Staff
32,567
8,067
533
Joined
Apr 18, 2013
Location
Las Muffukin Vegas
Hoopla Cash
$ 103,499.99
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I thought this was worth a share. Really takes on both Nagy, the O-line and Trubisky head-on.


TL;DW summary:
  • Nagy has no idea how to design running plays, like even at a conceptual level
  • The offensive line is being completely misused and/or fucking up a ton
  • Nagy overdesigns a LOT, but on run plays especially
  • Pass-wise, Nagy's good at drawing up these plays
  • Adam Shaheen is shit
  • The Jet Sweep to Patterson should be scrapped forever
  • Players often failed to execute when the playcalls were good, particularly on the offensive line
  • Trubisky needs to step up into the goddamn pocket
  • Trubisky hesitates a lot, and it breaks the entire offense
  • Trubisky has a horrid deep ball
  • Trubisky's mechanics are and always have been poor
  • Trubisky's post-snap processing is non-existent
  • Defensive backs often control Trubisky's eyes, which never move
  • Trubisky hesitates and freezes up when the time for making plays is needed
I dont have another 30 minutes to waste torturing myself with bears football.
 

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,809
3,084
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I'm probably gonna get blasted for this but if Nagy is over-complicating plays and the entire offense (from the O-line to the skill players) are not executing them smoothly or being misused, is it any wonder that Trubisky (who has more to learn than anyone else) hesitates and is clearly uncomfortable?

The over complication of plays was more so directed at the run game and blocking schemes (not that it excludes the air portion of the game). The clip points out that there's still a lot of positives to Nagy in the pass game. I didn't see much hate on the receivers there either.

I think what the video reveals about Trubisky is particularly damning. Not only does it point out how he's not executing when the plays ARE there this year. But that this is really who he has always been. Day #1 he had poor mechanics and instincts. Now, here we are in year #3 and it's the same thing. This is just who he is. He's bad... like... everywhere. In every facet of the position.

I don't think anyone would dispute that Nagy could be putting Mitch in a better position to succeed at times. The offense still could be better than it has been.

However, there's no way to watch this stuff without bias and say that Mitch isn't significantly handcuffing Nagy either. I mean, there's just no way around the throws and reads he misses. These are elementary QB things and not complicated. His post-snap processing is non-existent and that is nearly fucking impossible to coach around. He did to a certain degree last year but Mitch had to improve in order to sustain any tangible success. He really, really did not.
 

averagejoe

You fell victim to one of the classic blunders.
13,245
7,166
533
Joined
Apr 19, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,500.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
I guess that's the part that I'm having difficulty reconciling.
Everyone knew that Trubisky's college career was a short one. With no games under center.
He was a "project" that would need a good great teacher.
It looked like Nagy was the perfect guy.
But the more that comes out about Nagy, I think he's the reason Mitch is not getting better.

Maybe Mitch will never be good? I get that.
But there are plenty of average-to-mediocre QB in this league and they're out-performing Mitch.
And those QB don't have Nagy as their coach either.
So isn't that still on Nagy?
 

Nelly

Respectin' hoes, nationwide
4,755
1,968
173
Joined
Sep 4, 2018
Location
Chicago
Hoopla Cash
$ 1,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Maybe Mitch will never be good? I get that.
I think that's what we have to come to grips with sooner than later. The mechanics were never sorted out to start. His feet were never in good alignment with his arm. That exacerbates how he doesn't see the field and process what's happening fast enough to make plays that aren't obvious and perfectly executed for him. Nagy can maybe help him out a little better knowing that but that doesn't change the fact that Trubisky is just trash right now and doesn't show much hope of not being trash anytime soon.

This was the time for him to make his leap, and show he's going to be at least a serviceable quarterback. If anything, he's regressed. There's no reason to expect that a lightbulb will suddenly go on anymore.
 

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,809
3,084
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
Maybe Mitch will never be good? I get that.
But there are plenty of average-to-mediocre QB in this league and they're out-performing Mitch.
And those QB don't have Nagy as their coach either.
So isn't that still on Nagy?

Mitch falls FAR short of average/mediocre.
 

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,809
3,084
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
80% of the problems are Trubisky flat sucks at all levels of playing QB not related to running.

And he's not even good at that anymore.

If Mitch was mediocre, the Bears might be winning the division right now.

Correct. They've been in every single, solitary game down to the wire besides New Orleans with utterly putrid offense. Just competent QB play probably wins them a good chunk of those 5 losses.
 

Fountain City Blues

Love Everybody
45,254
12,688
1,033
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
The Gates of Hell
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.36
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
And he's not even good at that anymore.



Correct. They've been in every single, solitary game down to the wire besides New Orleans with utterly putrid offense. Just competent QB play probably wins them a good chunk of those 5 losses.
The only questions now:

Where do the Bears finish

Do the Bears get a new QB in the offseason, if so, who? Cam Newton?

All other considerations are white noise until QB is addressed.
 

richig07

Well-Known Member
14,809
3,084
293
Joined
Jul 11, 2013
Hoopla Cash
$ 200.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The only questions now:

Where do the Bears finish

Do the Bears get a new QB in the offseason, if so, who? Cam Newton?

All other considerations are white noise until QB is addressed.

The Bears don't have much in the way of draft capital to deal. They also may not have the cap space for a 20+ million dollar contract going on the books for 2020.

There's been talks of Nagy possibly wishing to kick the tires on Alex Smith. I know he's not your favorite guy. But the options outside of a trade are like Smith, Dalton, Bridgewater, Mariota or a 2nd round pick.

I mean, it would be an upgrade. If the D stays healthy it probably puts them in the playoffs. Obviously, he has to be healthy as well.
 

beardown07

Upstanding Member
69,654
19,387
1,033
Joined
Apr 9, 2011
Location
Pinacoladaberg
Hoopla Cash
$ 4,000.00
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So Mitch has all these glaring negatives that anyone can see.


So why does Nagy trot him out there week one to throw the ball 50 times? Why did it take him 7 weeks to run the fucking ball?

You would think that with all these glaring negatives...footwork, accuracy, etc. that a good coach would compensate and RUN THE FUCKING BALL.

This team has a good-to-great D, a stud young RB and a coach too dumb and stubborn to know what its team's strengths and weaknesses are.

Mitch's mechanics can be worked on. Can Nagy's arrogance and stubbornness?
 

Fountain City Blues

Love Everybody
45,254
12,688
1,033
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
The Gates of Hell
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.36
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
The Bears don't have much in the way of draft capital to deal. They also may not have the cap space for a 20+ million dollar contract going on the books for 2020.

There's been talks of Nagy possibly wishing to kick the tires on Alex Smith. I know he's not your favorite guy. But the options outside of a trade are like Smith, Dalton, Bridgewater, Mariota or a 2nd round pick.

I mean, it would be an upgrade. If the D stays healthy it probably puts them in the playoffs. Obviously, he has to be healthy as well.
I don't have a problem with Alex per se, never have. I did have a problem with him being average when the rest of the team/offense had clearly outgrown him and the sad sack roster he was plopped on in 2013-14.

Average would be a massive upgrade here if he can still do that.
 

Fountain City Blues

Love Everybody
45,254
12,688
1,033
Joined
Jul 2, 2013
Location
The Gates of Hell
Hoopla Cash
$ 500.36
Fav. Team #1
Fav. Team #2
Fav. Team #3
So, the Bears options are probably something like this at QB with varying degrees of feasibility

Teddy Bridgewater
Cam Newton
Alex Smith
Andy Dalton
Marcus Mariota
Jake Fromm
Trading a bunch of assets to get a QB in the 1st round
 
Top