Twins Off Season Commentary

[SandyBeach26]

The Minnesota Twins. Oh, my...the Minnesota Twins. No one could have forseen THIS debacle. Injuries coupled with under achieving, coupled with massive AAA and AA callups, coupled with crazy weather and just plain bad luck at times during the season.
The Twins should have been poised to defend their Central Division title. Many picked them to repeat as champions, with both Detroit and Chicago challenging them all the way. They certainly had the players....well, that is, until the season actually started......

Minnesota will be going into this off season with a TON of hard decisions to make. First and foremost, they have to make the decision whether they are willing to forsake the next 2-3 seasons in the interest of rebuilding, or attempt to compete again, chalking 2011 up to an injury plagued mess that helped to put them at the very bottom of the AL standings, and only Houston being worse record-wise in the entire Majors.
Once the decision to rebuild or not has been made, then they can attend to the business of who to keep, who to let go, who to trade, and who to try to get in the off season via free agency.

Personally, and this is probably the fan in me talking, I feel Minnesota does have the parts to contend in the Central, however, the health of those parts is another question altogether...one that can't be easily answered at this point in time.
It would be nice to see what a HEALTHY Minnesota Twins lineup can do over the course of a 162 game season.

Obviously, I am not privy to how the Twins owner wants to spend money, but if Minnesota is thinking about competing next year, I think resigning Michael Cuddyer, Jason Kubel, and picking up the option on Joe Nathan would be the place to start. All three of those guys, health aside, have performed during 2011. Cuddyer was pretty consistent (one of the few Twins), Kubel was hitting well above .300 before his injury issues started, and Nathan finished strong after initially stepping down from his closer role and looking shaky returning from surgery.

Do the Twins have better options should they let Cuddyer go? Not sure. In house, you know Ben Revere has to be considered for a starting job, Span, if healthy definately will be a starter. I just don't know if they have anyone else in their own system they can put in to replace Cuddyer on the field....and that's not even taking into account his clubhouse leadership, and other intangibles. Kubel, of course, is a part time RF/ LF, but his DH role is more significant. Not many of the Twins players have thrived just DH'ing in Minnesota....Kubel has shown he can.

Some possible FA replacements in RF:
Coco Crisp, David DeJesus, Rick Ankiel, or Juan Pierre.
Not sure if any of those guys would bring the same amount of production and leadership (or stay healthy for that matter) that Cuddyer already brings.

The catcher position is another area of concern. Is Joe Mauer THE catcher, or not? Looks like the Twins are transitioning him to a 1B/RF role (hey, maybe THERE is your RF replacement..)

Drew Butera and Rene Rivera certainly have NOT proved to be the answer at C.
I've been a fan of Jose Molina's work behind the plate, so perhaps Twins may want to look to FA to see if they can get him? Maybe he splits time with Mauer at C..?? And despite Molina's .230ish, .240ish batting average, it is an UPGRADE over Butera and Rivera (both in the low 200's or below...yikes..), and can hit for some power.

First base. A healthy Morneau is, of course, the preference....but WILL he be? Ever...??? Morneau may very well have to cut his career short....yes, I know, premature now still..but something the Twins need to think about. Mauer again, first base...he has proven he can play there...and if you are keeping Cuddyer, he can play there as well. Luke Hughes may be a solution in-house from AAA, but the question of whether he can productive as an everyday player needs to be looked into.

FA Options for 1B:
Prince Fielder, Albert Pujols...(just kidding...I know DAMN well, Minny can't afford those guys...nice to dream though...hehe)
Carlos Pena, Eric Hinske (if Atlanta doesn't resign him), Ross Gload, Xavier Nady......
None of these options are particulary appetizing for various reasons.....pickings would be slim.

Middle Infield. I'd like to see Minnesota give the duo of Casilla and Nishioka another shot. Nishioka can't POSSIBLY be this bad TWO years in a row, can he?? I mean, this guy was a freakin batting champion in Japan!! No one is expecting 330 or 340 from this guy...but perhaps 260-270...a good glove? Too much to ask for? Hmm...

FA Options for middle infielders:
Mark Ellis, Orlando Cabrera (again), Jose Reyes (ok, STOP laughing already....hehe), or Jamey Carroll...

Pitching. Oh, my..... pitching. Look, Twins...I understand Gio Gonzalez will be a FA....look into this guy will ya? Pavano has one more year on his contract..stick with him....see what Liriano can do in the off season to improve his mechanics...keep him...Baker if healthy is a good option for a SP as well...keep him.....Blackburn..another run as a starter? Hmm..don't know..I'd like him out of the bullpen, but someone mentioned to me sinker ballers don't seem to do well coming in from the pen.....then you have guys like Liam Hendriks, Scott Diamond, and/or Anthony Swarzak who can compete for a starters job.
Duensing would make a good bullpen arm...keep Perkins in there...any of the guys who DONT' make the rotation can possibly be in the bullpen.

DO AWAY WITH: Matt Capps, Alex Burnett, Jim Hoey, Anthony Slama, Jose Mijares....if anyone can see ANY redeeming qualities in these guys, let me know...I certainly haven't...
And try to trade Kevin Slowey...picks, minor leaguers, something...
FA pitchers available:
Rich Harden, Aaron Harang, Gio Gonzalez (mentioned), Edwin Jackson...all starters.
Relief: Heath Bell (man, that would be nice), Michael Wurtz, George Sherrill, John Grabow.

Of course, if Minnesota chooses to go the rebuilding route, throw all that out the window: AAA and stop-gap guys it will be.....and perhaps another 2-3 seasons of mediocrity and misery.

What do the Twins fans at large think?

 

[buckamania]

Beach - Lordy, you definitely have too much free time! (Just kidding!) What a well thought post this one was, in addition to some of the other ones I've enjoyed from you the past day, or two.

I'll just talk a little about Morneau as I discussed Mauer & Nishi earlier today. If I have any gas left I'll opine some more on your other guys. Morneau is a bad, bad, problem for the Twins as he has proven to be injury-prone lately. I'm not a doctor, but I believe his concussion is very serious, possibly career-ending. I think 2012 will bring this issue to resolution, if he comes back. Morneau is not faking it, he's not a slacker. I have fought un-ending battles on other sites about this very issue. He is as bad-off as Cory Koskie was. What's worse, he's going through other medical-issues to boot....no bueno! The Twins have a ton invested in this guy and thought that they had 1B covered long-term. Instead it's been almost 2-yrs. of pt.-time duty with full-time payments every week! Only the Yankees can recover from such predicaments. Now the clincher...I've always been put-off by Morneau's "streakiness" at the plate. He could be fabulous at times, then really bad for days on-end. If this man can recover from his injuries and then be consistent at the plate we got something. I don't see this happening. It's a shame, there was real talent there. The good news... I'm usually wrong!

Whew!...I'm runnin' low on gas but I see you like Cuddy, as do I. Boy, have I fought battles elsewhere over this guy too. Cuddy is the Ford pickup that always starts and never lets you down. He keeps his mouth shut and has a good civic-presence up in Minneapolis. He also plays multiple positions more than adequately. I'll take 5-guys like him and win games all year long. Re-sign him already!!

I gotta run, but let me say to that you have real talent with your keyboard. You punctuate well and you spell well also, I just hope you are not using those "spell-check" do-dads, I consider that "cheating" (kidding, again.) I'll check in later!

 

[SandyBeach26]

I thought I would continue the Twins discussion in this thread since it seemed more appropriate now that the scope is going beyond just Delmon Young...

Hmmm..Nishioka. I agree one THOUSAND percent that the Twins didn't get what they paid for this guy....this season.
Now, I am not sure if I would label it a "love affair"...I mean, the Twins invested lots of money in this guy, so they are pushing for all its worth to get this guy to pan out.

Is he Major League material? Maybe, maybe not. Judging by this past season, the answer would be a resounding NO....but at this juncture, I am willing to give the man a pass, because not only did he move up as far as going against a higher calibur of players (MLB vs. the Nippon Leagues), but there is also the matter of culture shock, the transitioning of his family life, his first serious injury he suffered not a week or so into the season....well, that can derail a guy right from go..

Now, I know this sounds like excuses, and believe me, I WON'T be making excuses for him or anybody else, but just saying its something to be considered. Now, with 2012 coming and 2011 firmly in the rear view, he has had time to adjust, he knows what's expected, and EVERYONE should expect quite a bit more from him from here on out. I say, don't label him a bust until we get to see what he can do, oh say by June 2012 or so. There SHOULD be marked improvement across the board (plate discipline, fielding), and if it looks like the same ol, same ol...THEN Minny and their fans can start worrying....because he still would have about another year and a half on his contract after that...

He was a batting champion in Japan...hit around .340 or so. It would be unfair for anyone to expect that out of him here....but .270 with some infield hits, some hustle doubles (singles stretched out to two when appropriate), some stolen bases, and a solid glove....hey THAT would be worth what the Twins paid for him.

As for Morneau...man, that is a problem of seismic proportions. You are right. The Twins absolutely were counting on him being healthy and productive well into his prime years, and now, he may not even have a career.

Let's face it: whether he was 'streaky' or not....he was always a threat. Teams feared him. He is a big reason Mauer got good pitches to hit in front of him, and probably the reason opposing pitchers served up bad pitches to the top of the lineup as a whole...because they tried to make quick work of them BEFORE Morneau had a chance to come up.
Since his injuries, the Twins haven't had that "feared" guy in the lineup. Cuddyer and Kubel certainly are capable hitters, but even at their best, whether real or imagined, they didn't quite inspire dread in pitchers like Morneau did.

I hope you are wrong about him as far as him being able to recapture himself. Aside from the Twins needing him, it would just be a shame to have a player of his talent lose his career when he probably could have gone on and maybe had a HOF type career when it was all said n done.
And back to that "streakiness" thing...I think that could have been more a by product of how well players hit BEHIND him...if Cuddyer, Kubel, Valencia, or whomever else is NOT hitting well behind him, why give him anything good to hit? Just take your chances with the next guy......if you have a core of Mauer, Morneau, Cuddyer, Kubel...all healthy and hitting well, the pitchers have no "soft spot"....if one doesn't get you, the other will. With Morneau gone, it just rips apart that core...easier to pick n choose around the other three.

And as for "inmates running the asylum".....wow....I guess as a fan, I really don't want to believe that is going on. I seriously don't have alot to say about it, except that I hope it isn't true. Sure, I've heard things, read things, seen the body language on the field and in the dugout.....but I guess I just want to believe that it was all the pressure of a really horrible, horrible season gone wrong, and not that dissension, egos, and diva behavior has taken hold of that clubhouse...
If that IS the case.....then the Twins really could be spiraling down a hole that they won't be able to climb out of for years to come, because for every few positives the Twins achieve, any one of those negatives can tear it right down....

Talent with the keyboard? Hmm..perhaps its my chase of some kind of work in the journalistic field....lol...I took a minor in that in college...but alas, life had different plans for me....
Great thing about message boards is I don't have to always be grammatically correct, and can use caps and punctuations liberally to make points I couldn't otherwise get away with in professional writings. So, its just fun stuff for me...especially if I get to talk about stuff I really have opinions on, and can hear from others with the same.

 

[powerchord86]

I disagree. It's all about Delmon Young.. lol

 

[powerchord86]

That is cool that you like to write. I fancy myself a bit of a hobbyist writter myself. Just don't always have a lot of time for it. Every once in a while I will get the creative juices going and type up something that I can be proud of but not as often as I would like. The end result can feel pretty rewarding. Anyway, on with the Twins talk. Lovin it.

 

[buckamania]

Beach - Another good post, even got PC off his lazy butt, now we're gettin' a team! There's another character we gotta get out his deer-stand and back to the keyboard: jrs21. He, and PC, and I go back to some pretty good times at other places to be named later.

I'll talk about Nishi a little more as I see this as the "smoking gun" (no, not Robert Cray's titanic R&B hit) in the Twins demise. Nishi came to the Twins during 2011 Spring Training and I went to see him workout everyday. I immediately noticed that he didn't field ground balls like the others. He looked very amateurish and tentative, but who am I to say anything? Days later, a friend and I were watching DP practice and watched a throw sail by Nishi's face, un-molested by his glove. The two of us looked at each other incredulously and said, "Am I seeing things? Is this guy for real?"The rest is history. Nishi proved to be a poor infielder and a weak hitter, as well. It's one thing for an infielder to have a weak bat if he has a vacuum-cleaner for a glove. Nishi has no bat and no glove. He should've been in the minors but Bill Smith booted Punto to St. Louis, where he now starts at 2B in the World Series, by the way. Smith burned his bridge behind him on this one. Furthewrmore, who ever scouted Nishi should be re-evaluated. Nishi was not MLB material then, and you don't train infielders in the basics at the MLB level anyway. They are supposed to be fundamentally sound in order to get to the MLB. Enough with Nishi.

Smith error #2. Joe Nathan has Tommy John surgery and he's in his mid-30's. Very tough to recover from, if ever. What does Smith do? He jettisons Greuierre and Rausch and pencils-in Nathan as his 2011 closer with Capps as his safety-valve! Joe could not come back and Capps was totally inept as the closer. The bull-pen quickly proved to be the main pitching problem of 2011. I blame Bill Smith on this one too. Smith took the Twins to sea with no life-raft.

Gotta go, but please know that I am a total Twins fan and take the good with the bad. Like you, I analyze the game all the time, but I'm never going to say I'm any better than MLB personnel or call them insulting names. I respect this game way, way, more than that. Give me some more of your insight tonite. I respect and enjoy it.

 

[Hauvster]

I say move on from Morneau. He is done. He wasnt hit that hard in that collision at 2nd base a couple years back, so it only stands to reason that he could be hurt again in any situation. For 14 mill, you need to be able to depend on his production, and you just cant anymore.

I have said numerous times that Joe Mauer's contract was a mistake. He isnt a 24mill a year type player. He got paid bases on a single year's performance. He would need to do .330, 30 hrs and 100rbi every year to even be close to qualifying for such a lavish payday...and he just wont. You kinda joke about signing Big Al, but then dismiss the thought because we dont have the cash. Well, cut loose these two dead weights who are bleeding our payroll for 38k a year and we actaully could. And he plays first. Covers for Morneau immediatley. Just a thought.

I like the idea about keeping Nathan, but he didnt do near well enough to justify the pay he will recieve if his option is picked up. I would suggest working out a deal with him, whereby, he gets released, then resigns for a lower base with incentives to work the money back up the line. If he comes in and produces, sweet, pay the man. If not, then we can save about 5 mill on the deal.

I think Cuddyer is gone. He will demand more money than he is worth, and we just cant afford to pay the guy 14-16 mill a year for the numbers he produces. And that number may even be too low. If we do re-sign him at his new inflated market value, we will tie up soo much money on so many question marks, it would just be irresponsible. Just these 4 guys alone rack up 57 mill or so.

Thats 4 guys out of 24? Ouch! I think its time to turn the corner with this team. Trade who you can for what you can, and we take our lumps the next couple years. We have a ton of holes to fill, pitchers included. We could perhaps target some younger players to try and trade/sign to help easy the transition, then go with some of the younger players we got to see this season. The money would be better spent, IMO, and we have a chance to win in the near future. With this core of guys, the window has closed. You can hang on to your hero's of yesterday, or accept the inevitable dynamics of the game, understanding there is a time to move on. I believe that time is upon us. Most of you already know this is how I see things. But if we retain the status quo next season, the truth will be told - one way or the other.

Am I right, or am I wrong? If I am right, and we stand pat, those guys listed above will lose nearly all their trade value. If I am wrong, what do we get? A winning record? A division title? Certainly not a World Series win. Just doesnt seem like enough upside to continue this direction. Use that money to reload, and lets look to the future, not the past.

Hauvster

 

[buckamania]

Keister (aka hauvster) - Just like a wasp hunting a tarantula, all I had to do was tap on your door and out you came! You and I both know that you would soon follow me here to bother me but I don't have to listen to your half-baked idoicy on SportsHoopla. I saw that you posted but I didn't read it. Anticipating your move, I put you on my ignore list and that's where you will stay.

Insult players and Gardy to your heart's content, like you always do little man, but I can discuss things with a "better" breed of sports fan here on SportsHoopla, guys like PC, Misk, and jrs21, and that's what I'll do. If I need to read "trash-talk" I can always go to Fox where this sort of thing reigns supreme. Writhe at your computer 24-7, keister, the door to my world is shut to you here on SportsHoopla. Go to your room tonite and beat your pillow senseless, el nino. You'll feel better tomorrow.

 

[Hauvster]

Oh brother. You really have an issue with me, thats for sure. But there is no need to be nasty. I was responding to a post by someone else, so you neednt worry yourself. Its unfortunate a difference of opinion scares you this way. But just remember, everyone's opinions are welcome, and mine was posted politely. Its what I think should happen with this team, if we are to get back to winning. And if you disagree with me... so be it. I wont cry. I'm a big boy.

 

[powerchord86]

Peace out Joe Nathan. I hope we are not banking on Capps. Need a closer big time.

 

[powerchord86]

I'd like to see the Twins land Alex Gonzalez (Braves FA). They really need a good SS with some pop. He is 34 though so maybe just offer a couple years max.

 

[Hauvster]

Yep, seems the Twins front office saw things similar to myself. Looks like Joe stood to make 12.5mill instead of 7mill. Got my numbers wrong somehow...opps. But that now being done, I hope we can bring him back. I dont think he is through as a closer, but I am not sold on him being the ace closer he was when he signed his last deal. Give him a contract with incentives, and if he meets them, then he will get a good pay day regardless. If he goes elsewhere, then I echo your sentiments PC. He was hands down the best closer this team ever had.

 

[buckamania]

PC - Good to hear from you. Shortstop, 2B, catcher, starting pitching, relief pitching, where don't the twins need help desparately?

What about Mauer, is he gonna return to form next season? 50/50 to me. Then what about Morneau? Personally, I think he's done, just like Cory Koskie and Troy Aikman, to name just a few. The money owed to these two alone, hamstrings the Twins payroll big-time. If they somehow returned to form things could be radically different money-wise and maybe Smith could find some players, but based on Smith's moves thus far I think he knows less about baseball than that little creep from Idaho that stole my dirty underwear and my bicycle seat. Funny, I never hear from him (the creep) anymore.

 

[Hauvster]

Arent all your points the same as mine, Buck? Funny that you even argue with me about these things when you see them the same way. Just a personal thing, eh?

 

[powerchord86]

You got that right buck. Times are tough all over. Help is needed in many places. It seems that Mauer just needs to catch part time maybe and play 1B. I like him at first base and wouldn't even mind seeing him as the everyday 1B. Anything to keep him on the field and off the DL. Morny just seems to continue to decline and I don't know if we can expect much more from him. His concusion issues might just be taking him out of the game. Sad to say but that's what it looks like.

 

[powerchord86]

I would like to see Nishi get going this year too. I know he was a batting champ in Japan but could it be that the MLB pitching is just on another level for him? He also seemed to struggle in the field with errors a lot too. I know there is a lot of adjusting that goes in with making the move from Japan to the states though. I'd say give him one more shot to show what he's got at ST now that he has one year under his belt and go from there. Either way I am rooting for him. If he works and stays healthy great, but if not time to move on.

 

[buckamania]

Yeah, PC. The hole is awfully deep! There is no quick-fix. It was easy to destroy the infield with the Nishi signing but if Nishi never adapts to the MLB level there goes $9 million and years of searching for a good 2B player. Nothing against Nishi, mind you, he's trying his heart out. He's in way over his head.

Used to be that a 2B or 3B player would be forgiven for having "no bat" if he was a vacuum cleaner in the field. That's precisely why Nick Punto is starting at 2B for the Cardinals in the World Series. Nishi couldn't make the plays and that's totally un-acceptable at the MLB level. How long would you give this guy? Steinbrenner would have bit-the-bullet and re-assigned Nishi to the minors immediately, but Geo. had all the money too. We'll find out soon enough what the Twins will do.

 

[Hauvster]

Grats to the Cards on another WS victory. Now we can see who this team is going to sign to improve itself. Who they think will be good fits.

 

[SandyBeach26]

Good afternoon all...

I've been scouring through some of the articles regarding the Twins off season, and all indications are that though Bill Smith keeps saying he wants to resign some of his free agents, they are going to be allowed to test the FA market.
IMO, key guys like Cuddyer, Kubel, and Nathan won't last long on the FA market as vultures such as NY, Bos, Det, and Phi seemed poised to swoop in and pickup some of these guys.

Funny how the fanbases of some of the above mentioned teams were making fun of the Twins, their players, and their talent levels......yet now I am seeing where those same people are salivating over the fact that many Twins players may become available for THEIR teams....talk about spewing out of both sides of your face, eh?

Anyways, I guess what I am REALLY looking for is some kind of definitive direction the Twins will take. Will we be contenders? Will we rebuild? Will we try to do things half-way? (NOT recommended by the way...).

Perhaps it is too soon for those kinds of questions to be answered...the WS just ended not two days ago after all. But you can bet the grave robbers are already working overtime to try and secure some of the Twins' "rejects" (as some other fanbases would have you believe before..), and would be more than happy to land guys like the FA the Twins have currently.

I've already stated that if the Twins do indeed plan on contending next season (and given the division, really is not that big a mountain to climb)...then they NEED to sign at least Cuddyer and Kubel. Those two guys have been indispensable at their positions.....really, who else has done well at DH and as a part time OF other than Kubel?
And Cuddyer...the man can play just about any position you put him in, do an adequate job, and despite not putting up elite numbers, still puts up good numbers when all is said and done....not to mention that Cuddyer is one of the club's true leaders...more so than Mauer and Morneau.

I realize these guys may not come cheap, but again, if Minnesota plans on competing, they are going to have to pay the price for it. The fan support will be there. Fans want to see the Twins FO put out a winner...and if that effort is made, the Twins will still continue to sell out Target Field.

As for Nathan, I'd like to see him return as well, but I've read reports he has an interest in seeing what the Mets are doing, and he may go there ( I understand he was a Mets fan growing up....so I suppose playing for your childhood team may be a bit too much to resist). That said, Nathan has also indicated he wanted to play for a winner, and well, as we all know, the Mets have problems of their own in that regard. Particularly considering they play in a division with the Phillies and Braves, and up n coming teams like the Marlins and Nationals.

I hope there is some positive direction for this team in the coming weeks. Things are currently looking as if Minnesota may go the rebuilding route (better than than some half-assed attempt at competing), but again, the FO may still be waiting to see how things shake up in regards to guys like Morneau and the pitching situation ( a whole other issue as well).

And on a final note in this early off season, I heard mention of Glen Perkins being a candidate for the closer's role should Nathan not be back, and I must say that if he does get it, it would have to be by default, as I realize the Twins options (unless they go full bore into free agency) are quite limited. I like Perkins as a 7th or 8th inning guy....I do NOT however have full confidence in him as a full time closer.

 

[buckamania]

Beach- All I can say is, "Yup, yup, yup!" Basically, everything you said I agree with, especially Cuddy and Kubel. I fought some monumental battles on Fox with one of the resident morons over Cuddy. Give me 5 guys only as good and as versatile as Cuddy and I'll take Stalingrad before Winter.

Nathan is another question altogether. Great guy and a great career, but coming off TJ surgery is so difficult, I'd really expect him to be out of baseball sooner than later. Hope I'm wrong.

The battle for the Central Division lies 100% in Mauer & Morneau's recovery to normal form. The whole team-treasury is invested in these two. If they don't return, or play poorly when they do, that's the ballgame! There is no way the Twins will spend big money again, they will be forever "shell-shocked" by this experiment. It's like a "newbie" in a casino with a $200 stake. If he steps up his bet to $50 and loses he "lays by his dish" and then gets ground down by the house because he's afraid to step it up again, even when the table is hotter than blazes. The Pohlad boys and Bill Smith are new to MLB 3001. They still belong in the introductory-level courses like MLB 1001, or an even lower-level, if available.

I am of the unshakeable opinion that relief pitchers are really just failed starters. Of all the relievers in MLB only 1 or 2 really excel, the rest are undependable. We all saw this in the WS last week. Walking guys and hitting guys when the bases are loaded?? C'mon, might as well have left the starter in if this was all the reliver can do. Perkins has never impressed me as a dependable pitcher. Now he's no longer considered a starter. That's the beginning of the end for him. Hope I'm wrong, again, but I don't see him as a solution. He and the Twins just never hit it off. Trade him.

Lastly, if Mauer & Morneau somehow return to brilliance I feel the whole team will respond accordingly. W/O these two the team loses it "Moj", big-time. Gotta get 'em back! Herein lies the crux of everything in 2012 and beyond.

Good to hear from you, as always!