Trading DOWN

[chf]

Did someone reach Cablegasm yet?

 

[Uhsplit]

I wasn't happy with Kris Richards getting the DC job because i felt it would hurt the growth of any new CB and the whole D would regress a little instead of continuing to move forward because by making KR the DC they would lose Norton JR. Lets see Seattle signed Kris Richards as the DC Feb 2, 2015 and Ken Norton Jr become Oaklands DC Feb 6th, 2015. Sorry but Norton was the better option between him and Richards. I think the fact that the LoB wanted him to be the DC so bad they fogged/clouded up the whole situation and loyalty to the players took over.

Be honest who do you think would have made the better defensive coach for the Hawks Ken Norton Jr or Kris Richards? be honest here. Norton Jr was that hardnosed DC that would have kept them on the same path as Quinn in my eyes. The defense is a little softer than it use to be there is no hiding that. I felt the fact they hired Kris over Norton Jr really undermind him and hurt him so he moved on.

in my eyes
Norton>Cable>Kris
i know thats apples to oranges ( they do not coach the same thing, well Norton and Kris do )

The only thing that matters is who Pete wants as DC.
Last year you were Heaps over Boykin, Avril over Bennett, ect.
Loyalty rules all for Pete?
Sherm Smith, Bruce Irvin, Okung, Maxwell, Sweezy, Unger, CM, Moffitt, Carp, et al.
Again, you miss.

 

[Screamin12th]

The only thing that matters is who Pete wants as DC.
Last year you were Heaps over Boykin, Avril over Bennett, ect.
Loyalty rules all for Pete?
Sherm Smith, Bruce Irvin, Okung, Maxwell, Sweezy, Unger, CM, Moffitt, Carp, et al.
Again, you miss.

i miss what? Heaps over boykin yeah i liked Heaps more than Boykin because he wasn't getting ANY playing time ( was looking at Boykins checkered past with the law ), Avril is the most under rated DE in the NFL and cheaper and less of a head case than Bennett. Irvin would make this team better, Unger wasn't hot or cold on him but he was a good Center i thought the Unger for Graham trade was a push, Moffitt was worth a shot, Carp would solidify the LG position with an above average Olineman, Sherm Smith never said a thing about him. Okung was against keeping the injury prone LT unless it was for cheap, Sweezy would be a instant starter at RG and improve the oline. Never thought much about Maxwells cover skills. CM was never a huge fan.

Did Pete want Kris as the DC or was he pushed into it? Do you not remember all the crying Sherman, Earl, and Kam were doing about how Kris SHOULD get the DC job? They stopped just short of saying they would go on strike if he didn't get the job. lol

Last year 90% of this board was on Kris Richards and how poor the defense has been compared to before ( before the injuries ), he is the direct link. He was a downgrade hire, Norton JR would have kept it about the same if not maybe improve it. The more quality hire would have been Ken Norton JR. He had more experience with the guys in the middle of everything ( LBers and DL )

 

[JMR]

Different article than I read. It stated that we can cut him at some point and move both bonus years to 2018 season. It specified that it would free up money this year but cost us double next year. Possibly an incorrect statement or interpetation.

That sounds really odd, never heard that before. Maybe a goof in the article. Do you have a link? Would definitely like to check that out.

 

[jakedog56]

That sounds really odd, never heard that before. Maybe a goof in the article. Do you have a link? Would definitely like to check that out.

I don't even remember which site it was from. It could have also been a misunderstanding on my part. I reread it to try to confirm my understanding so I thought that I was just missing something in the information. If I do see it again I will post it.

 

[JMR]

I don't even remember which site it was from. It could have also been a misunderstanding on my part. I reread it to try to confirm my understanding so I thought that I was just missing something in the information. If I do see it again I will post it.

No worries -- certainly way too much opinion stuff out there to keep track of these days. overthecap and spotrac are pretty good resources that have the facts without much fluff.

 

[Uhsplit]

i miss what? Heaps over boykin yeah i liked Heaps more than Boykin because he wasn't getting ANY playing time ( was looking at Boykins checkered past with the law ), Avril is the most under rated DE in the NFL and cheaper and less of a head case than Bennett. Irvin would make this team better, Unger wasn't hot or cold on him but he was a good Center i thought the Unger for Graham trade was a push, Moffitt was worth a shot, Carp would solidify the LG position with an above average Olineman, Sherm Smith never said a thing about him. Okung was against keeping the injury prone LT unless it was for cheap, Sweezy would be a instant starter at RG and improve the oline. Never thought much about Maxwells cover skills. CM was never a huge fan.

Did Pete want Kris as the DC or was he pushed into it? Do you not remember all the crying Sherman, Earl, and Kam were doing about how Kris SHOULD get the DC job? They stopped just short of saying they would go on strike if he didn't get the job. lol

Last year 90% of this board was on Kris Richards and how poor the defense has been compared to before ( before the injuries ), he is the direct link. He was a downgrade hire, Norton JR would have kept it about the same if not maybe improve it. The more quality hire would have been Ken Norton JR. He had more experience with the guys in the middle of everything ( LBers and DL )

Oakland had 7 players-no stars- on IR last year. Seattle had 16 players on IR-most notable ET on IR last year.
Seattle dropped from #2 in total D in `15 to # 5 last year.
Oakland dropped from #22 in `15 to #26 in total D last year.
Offense can help out a defense.
Last year Oak was #6 in total O.
Seattle was #12 in total O.
Oaklands D had a distinct advantage in help from the O and a much better injury report.
Oakland dropped 4 spots on D and Seattle dropped 3 spots.
This completely shoots a hole in your belief that KN>KR.
To me, you tend to come across as someone who feels he knows the way the team should be ran over our HC and GM.
That sir, is baloney in my book.

 

[chf]

Dunno if I just missed it, but I don't ever remember Ken Norton Jr. as being one of those next 'it' guys, with all the buzz attached to him.

Now to be fair, neither has Richard. But I dunno what Screamin' is basing his opinion on about Ken > Kris

 

[Screamin12th]

Oakland had 7 players-no stars- on IR last year. Seattle had 16 players on IR-most notable ET on IR last year.
Seattle dropped from #2 in total D in `15 to # 5 last year.
Oakland dropped from #22 in `15 to #26 in total D last year.
Offense can help out a defense.
Last year Oak was #6 in total O.
Seattle was #12 in total O.
Oaklands D had a distinct advantage in help from the O and a much better injury report.
Oakland dropped 4 spots on D and Seattle dropped 3 spots.
This completely shoots a hole in your belief that KN>KR.
To me, you tend to come across as someone who feels he knows the way the team should be ran over our HC and GM.
That sir, is baloney in my book.

Seattle was the 5th Healthiest team in the NFL last season Oakland 13th.
Lets also look at something else you forget. The teams they played against.

2015 they faced 6 top 15 offenses and 9 bottom 12 (#20-32 offenses ), the average offensive strength they faced ( 1-32 ) was 18.3. In other words a pretty weak group of offenses all season putting them in the bottom half. ( GB #4 was highest )

2016 they faced 10 top 15 offenses and 5 bottom 12 (#20-32 Offenses ), the average offensive strength they faced ( 1-32 ) was 14.4. In other words a pretty strong group of offenses all season putting them in the TOP half. They also faced the #1 and #2 scoring offenses this season.

that right there has more to do with the change than anything.

 

[Screamin12th]

oops my bad i screwed up and used the same year on both totals. i don't want to go through them all again and find the mean grade -.- i got better things to do lol

 

[JMR]

I think there are too many variables and contributing factors to be able to pinpoint Kris Richard as the reason for a slight decline in the defense. The point above about how an O can help the D is a very good one I think as well. The D is out there, makes a stop, then has to come right back on the field after a 3 & out...has to take a toll at some point. Your offense can also help put your defense in much more favorable situations by getting some early points and dictating the game. Our O struggled in that regard in 2016.

 

[Screamin12th]

I think there are too many variables and contributing factors to be able to pinpoint Kris Richard as the reason for a slight decline in the defense. The point above about how an O can help the D is a very good one I think as well. The D is out there, makes a stop, then has to come right back on the field after a 3 & out...has to take a toll at some point. Your offense can also help put your defense in much more favorable situations by getting some early points and dictating the game. Our O struggled in that regard in 2016.

while i agree with this the reverse is also true is it Not? Teams converted 3rd downs at a much higher rate against the Hawks defense just from 2015 ( 34.9% ) to 2016 ( 38.5% ), they also had more total first downs per game 19.3 to 17 and a directly connected yardage total that jumped 34 per game. This also ties into plays per game by opponents that went from under 60 ( 59.3 ) to 63.3.

Now the flip is also true the offense struggled to run the ball last season we all know that but they did not struggle as much as you think. the offense lost 15 yards per game from 2015-16( lower % difference than the defense gave up ). The offense had less than 1 First down per game difference ( 19.7 2016, 20.6 2015 ) saw the same 3rd downs per game on average ( 13.2 to 13 ) and this is a great state Punts per play in 2016 they saw 0.07 punts per play and in 2015 they saw the same 0.07 Punts per play. This means teams were not getting extra possessions but they were converting and gaining at a higher rate on their same possessions and in turn scored more. This makes the finger point more directly on the defense.

 

[JMR]

while i agree with this the reverse is also true is it Not? Teams converted 3rd downs at a much higher rate against the Hawks defense just from 2015 ( 34.9% ) to 2016 ( 38.5% ), they also had more total first downs per game 19.3 to 17 and a directly connected yardage total that jumped 34 per game. This also ties into plays per game by opponents that went from under 60 ( 59.3 ) to 63.3.

Now the flip is also true the offense struggled to run the ball last season we all know that but they did not struggle as much as you think. the offense lost 15 yards per game from 2015-16( lower % difference than the defense gave up ). The offense had less than 1 First down per game difference ( 19.7 2016, 20.6 2015 ) saw the same 3rd downs per game on average ( 13.2 to 13 ) and this is a great state Punts per play in 2016 they saw 0.07 punts per play and in 2015 they saw the same 0.07 Punts per play. This means teams were not getting extra possessions but they were converting and gaining at a higher rate on their same possessions and in turn scored more. This makes the finger point more directly on the defense.

Yeah, defense gave up a higher 3rd down conversion rate and not as good in many other stat categories. What could be happening is their breaks in between possessions was often very brief due to the offense being unable to sustain drives. I know the number of possessions is roughly even in any given game, but I think the D is going be less effective with an offense that doesn't give them much of a breather and/or puts them in unfavorable situations. You're showing how the O stats didn't decline all that much to make a case against the D, but the D stats you showed aren't exactly having them fall off a cliff. The dip on both sides of the ball was relatively small last season. They certainly do help each other.

 

[Judge Fudge]

OT Cyrus Koyjognio just got cut by the bills

Yah or Nay

 

[JMR]

OT Cyrus Koyjognio just got cut by the bills

Yah or Nay

Don't know anything about him, but we sure would butcher that name.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Don't know anything about him, but we sure would butcher that name.

Not any worse than I did

Cyrus Kouandjio

 

[jerseyhawksfan79]

Could always us OT help, but do we have enough cap space?

 

[MrS]

he is a nut, was found intoxicated in a fenced in area. the fence was an electric fence.