torts please!

[sjrules99]

Tortorella was just fired by NYR.

Yes, please! Let's take a look at this:

1. won a stanley cup as a head coach? check.
2. Has a solid connection with a player on the sharks? Check (Boyle, with whom he won the cup).
3. Not afraid to stand up to overpaid lazy players? Check.
4. Commands work ethic and consistency? Check.
5. has gotten alot out of his team given the roster and expectations? Check. (debatable, but i think NYR's roster is much thinner than many other teams which finished worse).

6. Change the face of the franchise and create a major shift? Check.

He's not perfect, and he comes with some serious risk, but Tortorella has a good track record, has won a cup as a head coach, and may be just what the sharks need to shake up the clearly stagnant team they have.

I know dougie isnt gunna do this because dougie likes even headed, cool, calm characters. That said, the personality of his coach and top players is one of gentile calm, and maybe they need a little more danny boyle style fire injected in there. Torts is it and he's not afraid to call out a guy if need be.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Torts has no idea how to run an offense anymore. Only way he knows how to play is defense only and hope an elite goalie can carry the team to the cup.

 

[rares]

No thanks on Torts. Can't stand that guy and, more importantly, he won't get any results with this bunch of players.

 

[caliraftdude]

No thanks on Torts. Can't stand that guy and, more importantly, he won't get any results with this bunch of players.

Yeah - sort of a replay of Ron Wilson with more interesting commentary after the games...

no thanks,.

 

[Likewall32]

Make Robinson the main guy

 

[sjrules99]

Nah, wilson was terrible with young guys just like Tmac is, but torts isnt. He won the cup with young guys. He got a ton out of NYR's young guys. Who had heard of zuccarello, hagelin, or Stepan before torts came in to NYR? Brassard sucked in SBJ then he gets torts, who uses him perfectly and he explodes. Tortorella got the most out of his young guys for sure. Girardi, Mcdonough and del zotta developed very nicely under him.

Aside from cooch, who was going to breat anyways since he was a top 10 pick, name ONE single player that Tmac developed into a legit top 6 forward or top 4 dman?

Every young player who came onto this team failed to excel under Todd's shitty leadership. He gave jumbo, not cooch the captaincy. He leans 100% on the old guys. He fails to get any of the younger players with potential to exceed or even reach expectations.

Now, Im not saying todda was handed a bunch of top 10 draft picks and destroyed them, but nevertheless, Demers had nice potential = fail. Braun has not developed well. One after the next, the sharks youth has fallen flat under Todd.

Torts is the perfect coach for a to-be-young team and he has proven his ability to develop young players and make them effective.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Braun hasn't developed well, wtf? He's become an outstanding shutdown dman with the ability to effectively move the puck out of the defensive zone and through the neutral zone. Not bad for a dman who was originally considered a defensive liability with limited offense. I think you are expecting to much from him in the points department. He's never been an offensive dman. He's a puck mover not a point producer which is why you never see him on the power play.

 

[sjrules99]

Braun hasn't developed well, wtf? He's become an outstanding shutdown dman with the ability to effectively move the puck out of the defensive zone and through the neutral zone. Not bad for a dman who was originally considered a defensive liability with limited offense. I think you are expecting to much from him in the points department. He's never been an offensive dman. He's a puck mover not a point producer which is why you never see him on the power play.

He was excellent in the PO's, but remember that he was a healthy scratch earlier this year and as good as gone. He has not shown any semblance of season long consistency. He and demers both showed great two-way potential but both have underperformed hopes. Remember when demers was supposed to be a top 4 dman? Now he's possibly not even an NHLer. Not saying it's all Todd's fault, but its hard not to look at the coach when a guy completely underdevelops.

Vlasic was supposed to be a great TWO-WAY dman but under Tmac he has become a steady defensive Dman but nothing on the other side of the red line.

Todd relied completely on jumbo, patty, burns, cooch, pavelski and boyle. Nearly all the young guys who have come under his tenure with great potential like sheppard, galiardi, McGinn, Wingels, Demers, etc have all vastly underperformed. None have cracked a legit top 9 forward spot (galiardi and wingels play there but havnt really been real top 9 forward producers) or top 4 Dman spot who can play in all three zones.

Compare that with tortorella who developed zuccarello, stepan, Hagelin, McDonough, Del Zotto, Callahan, Dubinsky, Marc Staal (before the freak top dinjury), Anisimov, and has done wonders for brassard since he came. That is one hell of a list of players to come under his tutelage in the last 5 years.

Furthermore, only a few of those players above were actually 1st rounders, so it's not like he only developed guys like cooch who were obviously going to succeed no matter what. Tmac has not turned a single call up into a stud. Maybe its talent? maybe its Dougie's fault? Maybe it's sommer in worcester's fault? Maybe it's bad luck? Whatever the reason, the incredible difference between the two coach's ability to develop seems striking to me.

 

[Cmon_WTF]

Girardi was there before Torts and his level of play after his arrival is consistant with his play before. Same goes for Callahan. By this mesure you should give McLellan credit for Pavelski and Clowe. Staal was a considered perenial Norris canidate prospect and has regularly fallen well short of those expectations even before the injury. Giving Torts credit for any of these players is laughable. Dubinsky's play fell off so bad with Torts arival the Rangers tried to pawn him off in almost every trade they attempted. Anisimov's play greatly improved with the move to Colombus.

McDoungh was a 12th overall pick, Del Zotto 20th overall, Stephan and Anisimov were 2nd rounders and yet you give Torts credit for their success but won't give McLellan any credit for Couture? Seems a bit of a double standard. You're comparing these players success to that of Braun a 7th rounder, Wingels a 6th rounder, Demers a 7th rounder, and Sheppard a player who's developement was destroyed by the Wild then he missed more than two years with injury and Galiardi, a player who was beat down by Sacco and the Avs orginization, so badly that he begged to be an add in to a trade.

 

[sjrules99]

Girardi was there before Torts and his level of play after his arrival is consistant with his play before. Same goes for Callahan. By this mesure you should give McLellan credit for Pavelski and Clowe. Staal was a considered perenial Norris canidate prospect and has regularly fallen well short of those expectations even before the injury. Giving Torts credit for any of these players is laughable. Dubinsky's play fell off so bad with Torts arival the Rangers tried to pawn him off in almost every trade they attempted. Anisimov's play greatly improved with the move to Colombus.

McDoungh was a 12th overall pick, Del Zotto 20th overall, Stephan and Anisimov were 2nd rounders and yet you give Torts credit for their success but won't give McLellan any credit for Couture? Seems a bit of a double standard. You're comparing these players success to that of Braun a 7th rounder, Wingels a 6th rounder, Demers a 7th rounder, and Sheppard a player who's developement was destroyed by the Wild then he missed more than two years with injury and Galiardi, a player who was beat down by Sacco and the Avs orginization, so badly that he begged to be an add in to a trade.

1. I didnt include girardi, did I? If so, oops.

2. Torts started in 08-09 and the year before in 07-08, callahan spent a significant amount of time in hartford. His first full year in the NHL was the year torts came, so yes, I credit hit with establishing callahan as an olympian.

3. Dubinsky had 1 full NHL year prior to tortorella. hard to say he fell off. I thought he emerged as a pretty legit top 6 forward under torts.

4. Anisimov wasnt much in CLB and was at least as effective in NYR.

5. staal was emerging as a stud prior to being injured. What he would have become is hard to say, but he was definitely establishing himself as a pretty stellar NHLer.

6. Pavs and clowe both had solid years before tmac came.

As for the comparison regarding draft position, I hear you. But, Mcginn was very poorly developed and utilized by tmac, Galiardi may not have been great in colorado, but tmac was give a 23 year old who had some pretty nice NHL success and got nothing from him.

 

[SJS944]

 

[SJVP408]

I want a bit of a fire breather, but Torts is way too over the top. I hate that he degrades his players to the media. Saying a player is awful at a certain skillset is just bad form from a coach imo. Torts is too extreme.

 

[sjsharksfan88]

Tortorella is a drama queen - there's no need for him. I'd rather have Tippett, AV or Ruff over him.

McLellan isn't a bad coach, he actually did good as bad as our depth is. My only beef with McLellan is his lineup decisions. Constantly benched Demers over Murray...