Top 32 tournament 2B Hornsby vs Kent

[obxyankeefan]

Top 32 players ranked by BRWAR(as of 6/18/15).

2Basemen Bracket is:

1 R Hornsby 6
32 J Franco 0

16 J Gordon 1
17 J Kent 4

8 B Grich 7
25 J Evers 0

9 F Frisch 5
24 N Fox 2

4 J Morgan 12
29 D Pedroia 3

13 C Biggio 8
20 R Cano 3

5 R Carew 9
28 L Doyle 0

12 W Randolph 5
21 B Doerr 4

3 N Lajoie 12
30 C Knoblauch 0

14 J Robinson 16
19 B McPhee 1

6 C Gehringer 11
27 D Pratt 0

11 R Alomar 13
22 T Phillips 0

2 E Collins 6
31 C Childs 1

15 C Utley 8
18 B Herman 4

7 L Whitaker 8
26 B Myers 1

10 R Sandberg 13
23 T Lazzeri 2

1 R Hornsby
17 J Kent

8 B Grich
9 F Frisch

4 J Morgan
13 C Biggio

5 R Carew
12 W Randolph

3 N Lajoie
14 J Robinson

6 C Gehringer
11 R Alomar

2 E Collins
15 C Utley

7 L Whitaker
10 R Sandberg

 

[obxyankeefan]

Rogers Hornsby Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Julio Franco 6-0

Jeff Kent Statistics and History | Baseball-Reference.com
Beat Joe Gordon 4-1

 

[MilkSpiller22]

I think Jeff kent is over-rated... People like saying he is the BEST power hitting 2nd baseman of all time, but that is really because he has compiled the most power numbers... He only had ONE season with an OPS of over 1000, and only 3 seasons of over .900... He only had 3 seasons of 30+ HRs... How is that being a great power bat?? Just because your peers are weak, doesn't mean you are good... In fact Rogers Hornsby had 7 seasons with a better slugging percentage and 3 seasons of more home runs than Kent ever did

So I would say Hornsby was a better power hitter than Kent... and that's just power, he was a better everything else too...

 

[navamind]

I think Jeff kent is over-rated... People like saying he is the BEST power hitting 2nd baseman of all time, but that is really because he has compiled the most power numbers... He only had ONE season with an OPS of over 1000, and only 3 seasons of over .900... He only had 3 seasons of 30+ HRs... How is that being a great power bat?? Just because your peers are weak, doesn't mean you are good... In fact Rogers Hornsby had 7 seasons with a better slugging percentage and 3 seasons of more home runs than Kent ever did

So I would say Hornsby was a better power hitter than Kent... and that's just power, he was a better everything else too...

OPS isn't the greatest way to measure power, though I agree Kent is a tad overrated. Also, there's only sixteen 1.000+ OPS seasons. Even .900, there's only about 87 of them.

Still, a bit surprised he only had two top 10 WAR seasons ('00, '02).

 

[MilkSpiller22]

OPS isn't the greatest way to measure power, though I agree Kent is a tad overrated.

No its not, but when it isn't close it is...

 

[navamind]

No its not, but when it isn't close it is...

What does this even mean?

This is a much better way for gauging power:
ISO | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

Kent ranks 3rd all-time among 2B in ISO at .210. There's a pretty sharp drop off shortly after. I mean, Rickie Weeks and Kelly Johnson rank in the top 15 in ISO. 2B is *not* a power hitting position.

 

[MilkSpiller22]

What does this even mean?

This is a much better way for gauging power:
ISO | FanGraphs Sabermetrics Library

Kent ranks 3rd all-time among 2B in ISO at .210. There's a pretty sharp drop off shortly after. I mean, Rickie Weeks and Kelly Johnson rank in the top 15 in ISO. 2B is *not* a power hitting position.

First off, I am not a huge Advanced stats fan... I create my own when I really want to use anything more advanced than standard... But that is irrelevant... What I meant by when it is not close it is good is that you don't need the best metric if it is not a close competition...

For example, do you need to look at OBP or OPS or anything else when you are comparing a .370 hitter to a .240 hitter?? when it isn't close, the weaker metrics are good enough to show the same thing...

 

[Cedrique]

Hornsby barely played after age 33 (I guess do to injuries?) but still had 2930 hits. Wow

 

[calsnowskier]

This one is not close. Hornesby wins in a landslide.

I tried to put together an opposition argument, and couldnt even put one up acknowledging that Hornsby was the winner. I support Kent as a HOFer, but he has no business winning this battle.

 

[DragonfromTO]

First off, I am not a huge Advanced stats fan... I create my own when I really want to use anything more advanced than standard... But that is irrelevant... What I meant by when it is not close it is good is that you don't need the best metric if it is not a close competition...

For example, do you need to look at OBP or OPS or anything else when you are comparing a .370 hitter to a .240 hitter?? when it isn't close, the weaker metrics are good enough to show the same thing...

What the hell is "advanced" about Isolated Power? It's simply (SLG - BA). About as simple as it gets.