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The Seattle Seahawks have traded for Jamaal Adams

seattlefan75

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Because you say so?

I've already addressed Flyerhawks post.

The value of the pick remains the same. It's hit or miss. Otherwise guys like Brady and Wilson would've went much earlier.

LOL what a safe comment "Well technically even if you scout them well its hit or miss and if you don't scout them its still hit or miss"

Yeah in that case if someone based their draft on what names they draw from a hat yeah its still hit or miss
 

NWPATSFAN

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LOL what a safe comment "Well technically even if you scout them well its hit or miss and if you don't scout them its still hit or miss"

Yeah in that case if someone based their draft on what names they draw from a hat yeah its still hit or miss

LOL, Is this like the Hawks not being able to draft well in the first round? So may as well trade the picks away?
 

flyerhawk

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Because you say so?

I've already addressed Flyerhawks post.

The value of the pick remains the same. It's hit or miss. Otherwise guys like Brady and Wilson would've went much earlier.

You really don't get how the draft works.

If you were graph the relative success of each draft pick in each round over the last 10 years you would see very consistent trendline. Taking a top 5 player being far more likely to yield results than a top 25 player which would be much more likely to succeed than a top 100 player. Because teams are able to scout players and value them accordingly.

With less information, the teams will be at the whim of chance a lot more. So the gap between a top 5 and top 25 player would be smaller but so would the gap between a top 100 and a top 25 player from a success rate perspective.

FTR, I don't care that much about whether 2021 will be a good or bad year for draft picks. As I have said, this trade will come down to how good Adams is with the Seahawks, not the relative value of draft picks.
 

Cave_Johnson

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A quick recap of Seahawks opininions:

1) It's ok to overpay for Adams because the Seahawks would have pissed away the value of the picks anyway.

2) It's ok to overpay for a SS because it allows the Seahawks to utilise a sub-optimal SS-dependent defensive scheme.

3) It's ok to overpay for a SS because it will scare divisional fans.

4) It's ok to overpay for Adams because although Seahawks fans didn't think he was a top 10 player before, or worth 2 X 1st round picks, they have a highlight video...and whilst that video DIDN'T convince Seahawks fans, it might somehow convince non-Seahawks fans, (who were even more sceptical).
Cute.

It's okay to overpay for a SS IF that SS is a 24 year all-pro and continues playing at that level for your team for years to come. We'll see if that's what happens. Everything seems to point to Adams at minimum being a pro-bowl caliber guy provided he can be resigned.

I don't know what the deal is with the retardation surrounding that video. Do you know the difference between highlight tape and analysis? Not the same. Adams is an elite player at his position regardless of whether or not he is a top 10 player in the NFL.
 

Cave_Johnson

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I will challenge this by saying unless there is a bubble format like the NBA (which I don't believe they can legally do with student athletes) I highly doubt they will be able to finish the season. Looking at the MLB about 2 weeks into their season already they have two clubs in the Marlins and Cardinals that devastated their clubhouse with the virus and the commissioner has talked about cancelling the season. Now you are talking about a college football team that has 70 plus people easy with players, coaches and trainers.
There is pretty much zero chance college football plays this year. NFL will try to go but there's way more shit to deal with in college ball. If they start up at all I don't think they'll make it into October.
 

NWPATSFAN

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As I have said, this trade will come down to how good Adams is with the Seahawks, not the relative value of draft picks.

This is looking at it only from a Seahawk POV. The NYJ organization will have a 180 degree view. The rest of us unbiased fans just try to keep it real.
 

NWPATSFAN

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You really don't get how the draft works.
Come on this isn't quantum physics.

To trade up or down in this draft it will cost you the same as years past. Thus the value is the same.

Like any draft, due diligence, some luck, a good FO and scouts along with a good draft strategy are what makes or breaks your draft.

Like every year there will be hits and misses from #1 to Mr. Irrelevant.
 

flyerhawk

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This is looking at it only from a Seahawk POV. The NYJ organization will have a 180 degree view. The rest of us unbiased fans just try to keep it real.

I only care about it from a Seahawks perspective. Trades can benefit one team, both teams, or neither team. But ultimately I only care about whether it benefits the Seahawks or not. If the Jets are able to get a huge haul of draft and do a real rebuild, good for them. They are not in the same place the Seahawks are.
 

flyerhawk

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Come on this isn't quantum physics.

To trade up or down in this draft it will cost you the same as years past. Thus the value is the same.

Like any draft, due diligence, some luck, a good FO and scouts along with a good draft strategy are what makes or breaks your draft.

Like every year there will be hits and misses from #1 to Mr. Irrelevant.

This is completely irrelevant to the point. Of course there will be hits or misses in the draft. If college football doesn't happen then we are going to see more misses at high spots and more hits at low spots. Because teams will not have as much information on players as they normally do. So they will need to rely on the combine and other off field measurables.

You know if you weren't so focused on coming up with the most negative take for the Seahawks you can come up, these conversations would be more productive.
 

NWPATSFAN

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I only care about it from a Seahawks perspective. Trades can benefit one team, both teams, or neither team. But ultimately I only care about whether it benefits the Seahawks or not. If the Jets are able to get a huge haul of draft and do a real rebuild, good for them. They are not in the same place the Seahawks are.

That's great, just makes it difficult to have a healthy dialogue if you're only looking at it from one side.

Funny because I'm the one who get accused of that routinely on this board.
 

NWPATSFAN

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This is completely irrelevant to the point. Of course there will be hits or misses in the draft. If college football doesn't happen then we are going to see more misses at high spots and more hits at low spots. Because teams will not have as much information on players as they normally do. So they will need to rely on the combine and other off field measurables.

You know if you weren't so focused on coming up with the most negative take for the Seahawks you can come up, these conversations would be more productive.

It most certainly is relevant. Many Hawk fans are trying to justify the trade by saying because there may not be a college football season those picks carry less value. They don't.

The rest is speculation on your part. If there are hits and misses after four full years of tape and scouting, one year less doesn't change the value of the pick. There will still be hits and misses. Sometimes overanalyzing things can be a mistake. Otherwise the top 20 or so picks every year would be a hit. I'll say it again the top prospects already have been scouted since HS. They are not going to forget how to play football, nor are there skills going to diminish drastically as some would want you to believe. How many more game tapes are enough? Schools routinely play somewhere between 8-12 games a year. So are 8 more games enough?
 

flyerhawk

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That's great, just makes it difficult to have a healthy dialogue if you're only looking at it from one side.

Funny because I'm the one who get accused of that routinely on this board.

Why is it difficult to have a healthy dialogue? A trade can be good for both teams or bad for both teams. Regardless of how the trade impacts the other team, the measure of how good a trade is for a team is based on the assets they gave up and the assets they received.

It really doesn't matter what the Jets wind up doing with those draft picks from a Seahawks perspective. Just as it doesn't matter if Jamal Adams helps the Seahawks win 3 Super Bowls from a Jets perspective.

You wish to portray this as a terrible deal for the Seahawks which is a pretty unique position held only by you and Rams, Niner and Cardinal fans. At least right now. Maybe this deal won't work for the Seahawks but you have no way of knowing.
 

flyerhawk

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It most certainly is relevant. Many Hawk fans are trying to justify the trade by saying because there may not be a college football season those picks carry less value. They don't.

They are saying that the picks have less value from a confidence perspective.

The rest is speculation on your part. If there are hits and misses after four full years of tape and scouting, one year less doesn't change the value of the pick. There will still be hits and misses. Sometimes overanalyzing things can be a mistake. Otherwise the top 20 or so picks every year would be a hit. I'll say it again the top prospects already have been scouted since HS. They are not going to forget how to play football, nor are there skills going to diminish drastically as some would want you to believe. How many more game tapes are enough? Schools routinely play somewhere between 8-12 games a year. So are 8 more games enough?

You keep intentionally missing the point. I don't think I can make myself any clearer but you are willfully ignoring it.

Every single year there are players that shoot up the draft board and shoot down the draft based on their last season of play. Because that is the most important metric for scouts.

Not only do those 8-12 games matter but players can shoot up or down the draft board based on solely on their LAST game be it a bowl game or an all-star game. It happens every year.

But clearly you don't think that watching recent football play really matters so this conversation is moot.
 

NWPATSFAN

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Why is it difficult to have a healthy dialogue? A trade can be good for both teams or bad for both teams. Regardless of how the trade impacts the other team, the measure of how good a trade is for a team is based on the assets they gave up and the assets they received.

It really doesn't matter what the Jets wind up doing with those draft picks from a Seahawks perspective. Just as it doesn't matter if Jamal Adams helps the Seahawks win 3 Super Bowls from a Jets perspective.

You wish to portray this as a terrible deal for the Seahawks which is a pretty unique position held only by you and Rams, Niner and Cardinal fans. At least right now. Maybe this deal won't work for the Seahawks but you have no way of knowing.

The difficulty in having a healthy dialogue was you were stating you only cared about one side. The rest of us are looking at it subjectively from both sides.

Yes, IMO as well as others not just division foes feel the Hawks gave up too much. Time will tell.
 

NWPATSFAN

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They are saying that the picks have less value from a confidence perspective.



You keep intentionally missing the point. I don't think I can make myself any clearer but you are willfully ignoring it.

Every single year there are players that shoot up the draft board and shoot down the draft based on their last season of play. Because that is the most important metric for scouts.

Not only do those 8-12 games matter but players can shoot up or down the draft board based on solely on their LAST game be it a bowl game or an all-star game. It happens every year.

But clearly you don't think that watching recent football play really matters so this conversation is moot.

So to instill your/their confidence is one more game enough? Five? 10? I mean what does it take?

We've already discussed other reasons like off field issues, undisclosed injuries...that effect how players move up and down the board. Yet you don't seem to think that's a factor.

If a scout and FO drastically change their mind based on one recent game they have more issues than just scouting.
 

Tapey

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I don’t think the Seahawks gave up enough tbh, they should have thrown in RW too since Pete refuses to let him loose anyways
 

returnofjakedog

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Cut and dry:
Did the Seahawks overpay for Adams?
-In the sense that no one else was going to pay two firsts for him probably yes.
......but from another perspective:
-Adams was a #6 pick but has proven to be far more valuable than his already lofty draft is status. In the past 5 years the Seahawks have drafted about 28th on average. A #6 pick is valued at 1600 pts while a #28 is worth 660 pts each. Adding McDougald and swapping a 3rd for a 4th (dropping maybe 10 spots?) seems pretty reasonable to me. Even the #24 picks are only worth 740 pts so if that was the case there is still points to cover to make it up to 1600 pts.
Add to this that the Seahawks lack of flexibility last year made them the team that used their base D the most in the league while using a nickel set the least in the league. This was an anomaly for a PC coached team. Adams will allow the Seahawks to run their nickel set at a much higher rate, like they have done every year under PC except for last year.
The lack of depth and scouting for next year's draft will also reduce the value of the picks.

So I don't get all of the hate for the trade. The Seahawks definitely improved and they have 2 years left on Adams' contract. The value of the trade pieces on both sides generally add up. Adams is a seemingly good fit to really improve the Seahawks D. An additional bonus is that the Seahawks actually freed up several millions to maybe pony up a one year deal for the likes of Clowney.
 
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