The Seattle Seahawks have added more speed with WR Dorsett

[seattlefan75]

Russ isn't getting any younger. How many more seasons do we need to sacrifice in order to plan for the long term?

Clowney is a disruptive force on the DL. His health issues are a concern certainly.

But a DL of Griffen, Ford, Reed, Green would be worse than our DL last year, which was one of the worst DLs in the NFL. Hoping for young guys to step up several levels is wishful thinking.

Our lines are anemic. We reshuffled our OL in hopes of it being better but having Russ mitigates how poor our OL is. Our DL, otoh, is just terrible and even worse given how unwilling Pete is to blitz. We can't play his style of defense with a mediocre DL.

If we want to win a Super Bowl again then JS/PC need to do something about the DL. Resigning Clowney is just one step. Resign Clowney and trading for another pass rusher is what is needed. I just don't see how we could possibly transform the DL by letting Clowney walk.

Well following our super bowl model then we shouldn't sign clowney to a lot of money at all our whole defense was made up of guys on 1-2 year deals surrounded by rookies. If we know for a fact our defensive line isn't good enough to go to a super bowl if clowney on the team when we paid him 8 million then how are we going to get to the super bowl paying him 21 million? We might as well let him go and find another route.

Russell Wilson isn't getting any younger but the reason why we are in this cap struggle is because of russ's contract so he needs to make up for the lack on the defense by putting up more numbers on offense with that shuffled offensive line we are paying almost 13 million on a LT 12 million on a WR and 11 million on a center used a 1st round pick on a RB, he should take that as good effort from management. Pretty much everything left this offseason in resources should be on the defense.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well following our super bowl model then we shouldn't sign clowney to a lot of money at all our whole defense was made up of guys on 1-2 year deals surrounded by rookies. If we know for a fact our defensive line isn't good enough to go to a super bowl if clowney on the team when we paid him 8 million then how are we going to get to the super bowl paying him 21 million? We might as well let him go and find another route.

If the Seahawks are able to strike gold and get a Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril for pennies on the dollar that would be fantastic. That seems pretty unlikely though. Furthermore, there aren't a lot of D lineman on the market at this point. Our D line wasn't good enough last year because one of the FAs we signed was terrible and our rook DE struggled.

Our D line this year, as it is stands, is the same group except we no longer have Ziggy Ansah(addition by subtraction), Quinton Jefferson, Al Woods and currently Clowney. We've added zero players on the defensive line and lost 3 significant contributors. On a group that was one of the worst in the league last year. Maybe it would be better for the team to sign Griffen, Wake, Matthews, and some other guy on the north side of 30 and hope that 2 of them because big contributors. But we best hope that our offense turns into the Chiefs if that is the case.

Russell Wilson isn't getting any younger but the reason why we are in this cap struggle is because of russ's contract so he needs to make up for the lack on the defense by putting up more numbers on offense with that shuffled offensive line we are paying almost 13 million on a LT 12 million on a WR and 11 million on a center used a 1st round pick on a RB, he should take that as good effort from management. Pretty much everything left this offseason in resources should be on the defense.

I think the offense will be more than good next season. It was really good last year until we lost our 1st, 2nd and 3rd string running backs along with our starting TE.

 

[seattlefan75]

If the Seahawks are able to strike gold and get a Michael Bennett and Cliff Avril for pennies on the dollar that would be fantastic. That seems pretty unlikely though. Furthermore, there aren't a lot of D lineman on the market at this point. Our D line wasn't good enough last year because one of the FAs we signed was terrible and our rook DE struggled.

Our D line this year, as it is stands, is the same group except we no longer have Ziggy Ansah(addition by subtraction), Quinton Jefferson, Al Woods and currently Clowney. We've added zero players on the defensive line and lost 3 significant contributors. On a group that was one of the worst in the league last year. Maybe it would be better for the team to sign Griffen, Wake, Matthews, and some other guy on the north side of 30 and hope that 2 of them because big contributors. But we best hope that our offense turns into the Chiefs if that is the case.



I think the offense will be more than good next season. It was really good last year until we lost our 1st, 2nd and 3rd string running backs along with our starting TE.

Maybe I am looking at this way differently if our DL was so bad last year then wouldn't it be productive that we lost those guys? Al Woods is also on the north side of 30, Quinton Jefferson was already released once then signed by the rams then released again I wouldn't value him as a huge loss and Ziggy was a failure all together so that leaves us with clowney.

 

[flyerhawk]

Maybe I am looking at this way differently if our DL was so bad last year then wouldn't it be productive that we lost those guys? Al Woods is also on the north side of 30, Quinton Jefferson was already released once then signed by the rams then released again I wouldn't value him as a huge loss and Ziggy was a failure all together so that leaves us with clowney.

I'm not suggesting that Woods or Jefferson were huge losses. But they were contributors to the defense. Losing them doesn't improve our defense.

So, as it stands, we are going to need to see some huge improvements from Collier, Green, and Griffin just to get back to where we were last year. Without Clowney I don't think it is even possible for us to get back to 2019 production from the DL.

I'm not a pessimist by nature. I tend to look at the positive side of things. And generally I like the roster for this team. But DL remains a huge massive hole. With Clowney we have a well below average DL. Without Clowney we are one of the worst defensive lines in football, probably the worst. Unless Jarren Reed turns into 1992 Tez Kennedy.

 

[seattlefan75]

I'm not suggesting that Woods or Jefferson were huge losses. But they were contributors to the defense. Losing them doesn't improve our defense.

So, as it stands, we are going to need to see some huge improvements from Collier, Green, and Griffin just to get back to where we were last year. Without Clowney I don't think it is even possible for us to get back to 2019 production from the DL.

I'm not a pessimist by nature. I tend to look at the positive side of things. And generally I like the roster for this team. But DL remains a huge massive hole. With Clowney we have a well below average DL. Without Clowney we are one of the worst defensive lines in football, probably the worst. Unless Jarren Reed turns into 1992 Tez Kennedy.

I feel like the addition of bruce Irvin already replaces what Ansah and Jefferson bring to the team and LJ Collier should be coming back with an entire offseason, OTA, training camp and preseason to get ready he had a few healthy scratches last year. I think Bruce, Green, and Collier is better than Ansah, Woods, and Jefferson. Also getting Reed back and not having missed half a season from suspension is good. I don't think we are in as deep in the dump as you think

 

[flyerhawk]

I feel like the addition of bruce Irvin already replaces what Ansah and Jefferson bring to the team and LJ Collier should be coming back with an entire offseason, OTA, training camp and preseason to get ready he had a few healthy scratches last year. I think Bruce, Green, and Collier is better than Ansah, Woods, and Jefferson. Also getting Reed back and not having missed half a season from suspension is good. I don't think we are in as deep in the dump as you think

Irvin was a decent pickup and he's certainly better than Ziggy Pylon.

But as it stands he's our replacement for Clowney.

Irving was a situational pass rusher at his peak. If we expect more from him than being that we are going to be sorely disappointed.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Irvin was a decent pickup and he's certainly better than Ziggy Pylon.

But as it stands he's our replacement for Clowney.

Irving was a situational pass rusher at his peak. If we expect more from him than being that we are going to be sorely disappointed.

Thing is paying Clowney the money he wanted would of hamstrung the team. Apparently it's not just the Seahawks that can't/ won't pay him that kind of money. So a waiting game is happening. Seahawks are going about doing what they can for other positions. They are obviously spreading money in thin layers and waiting for the draft to augment the roster. Clowney is trying to wait out other options teams have for the DL and force a team to pay him what he wants.
Don't think Clowney is getting great offers. Think the Seahawks are still in play for his services. If they get him signed for 14 or 15 million. That would be great. If some other team gives him the kind of money he wants, oh well, that just beyond what the Seahawks can afford. They will seek alternatives, be it the draft, or players getting cut for cap reasons, or maybe a trade. That's just how it works.

 

[flyerhawk]

Thing is paying Clowney the money he wanted would of hamstrung the team. Apparently it's not just the Seahawks that can't/ won't pay him that kind of money. So a waiting game is happening. Seahawks are going about doing what they can for other positions. They are obviously spreading money in thin layers and waiting for the draft to augment the roster. Clowney is trying to wait out other options teams have for the DL and force a team to pay him what he wants.
Don't think Clowney is getting great offers. Think the Seahawks are still in play for his services. If they get him signed for 14 or 15 million. That would be great. If some other team gives him the kind of money he wants, oh well, that just beyond what the Seahawks can afford. They will seek alternatives, be it the draft, or players getting cut for cap reasons, or maybe a trade. That's just how it works.

Sure. I get all that.

But that doesn't change the reality that without Clowney, or some sort of truly shocking trade, this team is not a Super Bowl contender with this DL as constructed. Even Clowney coming back probably isn't enough.

 

[Anointed One]

Maybe I am looking at this way differently if our DL was so bad last year then wouldn't it be productive that we lost those guys? Al Woods is also on the north side of 30, Quinton Jefferson was already released once then signed by the rams then released again I wouldn't value him as a huge loss and Ziggy was a failure all together so that leaves us with clowney.

That was my thought as well when reading through the posts... Not a big deal imo losing the others not named Clowney... They can be replaced...

I'm expecting more from Collier this year... Green was a healthy scratch for quite a few games last year and then he ended up having a decent year... He'll improve... Collier should be a productive addition this year imo....

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Sure. I get all that.

But that doesn't change the reality that without Clowney, or some sort of truly shocking trade, this team is not a Super Bowl contender with this DL as constructed. Even Clowney coming back probably isn't enough.

Lots of time yet, let’s not give hope.

 

[flyerhawk]

Lots of time yet, let’s not give hope.

I haven't given up hope. Sorry if it comes across that way. Honestly I think we will resign Clowney but we might not.

I'm just not going to put a positive spin on replacing Clowney with Griffen and assume that everything will be fine.

 

[JMR]

I think we'll re-sign Clowney, but I'm not jumping off a building if we don't. I have full confidence that JS will find another way to bring talent in if Clowney doesn't return. When has he not done it when it was necessary? If Clowney signs somewhere else tomorrow, he's not just gonna say F it and give up and wait until 2021 to try to be good. They'll make some sort of move in a trade, the draft, the next wave of free agency, or a combo of all. The season is still over 5 months away, so I am not sure why we are rushing to grade things out right now.

Also, the logic of not being good last year on the DL means we may not be good next year on the DL if we re-sign Clowney is weird. Jarran Reed had a near wasted year and wasn't close to the player he was in 2018. LJ Collier was hurt all camp and then didn't get much of a chance as we toiled with FA bust Ziggy Ansah. Rasheem Green was a 2nd year guy who led the team in sacks, so his stock may still be climbing. Why would 2020 be an exact repeat given all that? These are humans, not robots.

 

[Anointed One]

I think we'll re-sign Clowney, but I'm not jumping off a building if we don't. I have full confidence that JS will find another way to bring talent in if Clowney doesn't return. When has he not done it when it was necessary? If Clowney signs somewhere else tomorrow, he's not just gonna say F it and give up and wait until 2021 to try to be good. They'll make some sort of move in a trade, the draft, the next wave of free agency, or a combo of all. The season is still over 5 months away, so I am not sure why we are rushing to grade things out right now.

Also, the logic of not being good last year on the DL means we may not be good next year on the DL if we re-sign Clowney is weird. Jarran Reed had a near wasted year and wasn't close to the player he was in 2018. LJ Collier was hurt all camp and then didn't get much of a chance as we toiled with FA bust Ziggy Ansah. Rasheem Green was a 2nd year guy who led the team in sacks, so his stock may still be climbing. Why would 2020 be an exact repeat given all that? These are humans, not robots.

Yep... If there is anyone who knew how much we struggled on DL, it was our coaching staff... They're not going into this w/out a plan A, Plan B, Plan C, etc... Like you, I trust they will solidify the line and make it more productive/competitive this year...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

I think we'll re-sign Clowney, but I'm not jumping off a building if we don't. I have full confidence that JS will find another way to bring talent in if Clowney doesn't return. When has he not done it when it was necessary? If Clowney signs somewhere else tomorrow, he's not just gonna say F it and give up and wait until 2021 to try to be good. They'll make some sort of move in a trade, the draft, the next wave of free agency, or a combo of all. The season is still over 5 months away, so I am not sure why we are rushing to grade things out right now.

Also, the logic of not being good last year on the DL means we may not be good next year on the DL if we re-sign Clowney is weird. Jarran Reed had a near wasted year and wasn't close to the player he was in 2018. LJ Collier was hurt all camp and then didn't get much of a chance as we toiled with FA bust Ziggy Ansah. Rasheem Green was a 2nd year guy who led the team in sacks, so his stock may still be climbing. Why would 2020 be an exact repeat given all that? These are humans, not robots.

Amen! I'm not discouraged about the DL, be great if they ink Clowney but if they don't, they will have a plan to make the DL better. Certainly seems possible that Reed rebounds, Collier actually contributes and Green continues to develop. Then the addition of Irving helps also. I'm all for the Seahawks holding firm on the value they put on Clowney. Players seem to dream about being a free agent and believing they'll hit the lottery, then reality slaps them in the face.

 

[flyerhawk]

I think we'll re-sign Clowney, but I'm not jumping off a building if we don't. I have full confidence that JS will find another way to bring talent in if Clowney doesn't return. When has he not done it when it was necessary? If Clowney signs somewhere else tomorrow, he's not just gonna say F it and give up and wait until 2021 to try to be good. They'll make some sort of move in a trade, the draft, the next wave of free agency, or a combo of all. The season is still over 5 months away, so I am not sure why we are rushing to grade things out right now.

JS is a great GM. But you can't be expected to produce miracles. IMO, the expectation that we will find another Avril or Bennett out of thin air is part of the problem. Maybe they will be able to snooker the Jaguars out of Ngakoue for pennies on the dollar but that is a huge roll of the dice. Let's not forget that our DL was going to be even worse heading into the season last year until the Texans decided to give Clowney away.

I'm not giving up on the season right now. Of course that would be silly. I'm just trying to be keep my expectations level. Our record flattered to deceive last year as we were extraordinarily good at close game wins. Historically teams regress to mean on games like that. Yes, having Russ will always make us more likely to win those games than not but no 80% of them.

Also, the logic of not being good last year on the DL means we may not be good next year on the DL if we re-sign Clowney is weird. Jarran Reed had a near wasted year and wasn't close to the player he was in 2018. LJ Collier was hurt all camp and then didn't get much of a chance as we toiled with FA bust Ziggy Ansah. Rasheem Green was a 2nd year guy who led the team in sacks, so his stock may still be climbing. Why would 2020 be an exact repeat given all that? These are humans, not robots.

Our DL was atrocious last year except in the games when Clowney was healthy and and got comfortable with the system. I suspect that Reed will be better next year. I suspect that Collier will be better next. Even Green will probably be better.

The question is how much better? Collier was as likely to be a healthy scratch as to actually play last year. I don't recall him making a single notable play. So even a much improved Collier may only be league average. I probably hold out the most hope that Green elevates his game.

We were a bottom 5 DL last year. We need a dramatic improvement. A great QB like Russ can make a bad OL look better. A bad DL is almost unsavable unless you have an in their prime Earl Thomas and Richard Sherman patrolling the field. We don't have that. I honestly think that our secondary is pretty good. But no secondary is good when the QB isn't pressured.

The reason why I'm focused on this so much is because I thin that if we had a pretty good DL, this would be a Super Bowl contending team. Getting Clowney back doesn't make that happen on its own but we are a lot closer with him in the fold than without. And, IMO, I'm ok with mortgaging the future for a shot this year.

 

[Anointed One]

The DL would be a little bit more productive this year even if we had the same cast... Our DB's will help the DL more this year... They were pretty terrible last year, mainly Thompson and Tre Flowers... Upgrading the DL along with the upgrades to the DB's, we should see a dramatic improvement...

 

[HaroldSeattle]

And, IMO, I'm ok with mortgaging the future for a shot this year.

I can't get on board with that sentiment. Don't feel the Seahawks are ready for a Superbowl push yet, going to take another season. Just don't feel the value Clowney brings is as high as some here expect. Can't expect him to top last season IMO because that was a career year in a contract year and he has injuries issue to boot. Going to need some draft success this season and next.

 

[flyerhawk]

I can't get on board with that sentiment. Don't feel the Seahawks are ready for a Superbowl push yet, going to take another season. Just don't feel the value Clowney brings is as high as some here expect. Can't expect him to top last season IMO because that was a career year in a contract year and he has injuries issue to boot. Going to need some draft success this season and next.

How many more Russell prime seasons do we treat as rebuilding seasons?

What I don't want is to be the New Orleans Saints who chose to wait until Brees was late in his career before making the big moves to go for it.

 

[HaroldSeattle]

How many more Russell prime seasons do we treat as rebuilding seasons?

What I don't want is to be the New Orleans Saints who chose to wait until Brees was late in his career before making the big moves to go for it.

Thing is the Seahawks aren't in a position to make big moves, resigning Clowney isn't a big move IMO. Once your on the level of being a regular playoff team, improvements are hard to come by in truth. Cap space never adequate for real improvement and draft position is such that it's difficult to hit in the draft. Improvements are made in small increments, if at all. Think the Seahawks are doing what they can to improve and are on the right path. At the end of the day playoff teams just need some luck/ skill at hitting on players in the draft despite the disadvantage of drafting late.

 

[Screamin12th]

Hawks got to start hitting on their 3-6th rounders again. Maybe i should say 1st through 7th rounders again because my gosh the picking has been slim lately lol