The Real JRod Test

[NWinAZ]

We all see what this kid does on the field and it is obviously not a fluke. He is right there with Jr and Arod as far as young stud Mariners hitters go. But his real value, or demise, might be his ability or inability to recruit legit veteran hitters to come here. He seems to be well liked around baseball with players from everywhere liking him. I heard them say that he worked out with Santana in the offseason so I am sure that had a lot to do with us picking him up which is fine with me. Now can he recruit and convince M's management to bring on a couple studs next year?

I looked over the 11 year Griffey career, not the return years, to see who were the best hitters we brought n to help him. Not the hitters who became great like Buhner, but were legit hitters when we picked them up. I came up with four and none were studs at the time. More like solid.

1- Davide Segui 21 HRs/68 RBIs
2- Paul Sorrento 25/79
3- Kevin Mitchell 27/69
4- Eric Anthony 15/66

All these numbers are from the year prior to us obtaining them. Cano 27/107 Cruz 40/108 are probably the two best hitters we picked based on the years prior numbers.

 

[WizardHawk]

Problem with the comparison of eras is we had Lou back then pushing and screaming for players. He fought for every dollar spent.

Servais is no Piniella

Obviously if the team keeps getting better and we have a few guys hitting high averages, they will attract more hitters who have bought into the idea you can't hit in Seattle. The truth really is the M's haven't shown that they can manage hitters and help them get out of holes. The ones who have hit well here simply didn't need help. That and bad farm teams for several years and low budget meant they had a lineup that needed help/development and didn't get any.

They have probably set Kelenic back years with his mismanagement. Who knows if he would have failed anyway, but they sure didn't set him up for success.

 

[ulmax]

I truly don't see ANY POSITIVE in Winker.
I was mislead in thinker we got a player in Winker.

His LF play and throwing arm are pathetic.
Suarez was a salary dump/throw in, and has actually been good.

How MANY "i Just Missed it Balls" have gone Winkers way? Way too many.

Wrong quot..oh well
Quote wizard hawk..above..

I think this..is partially true...
There is somthing..that backdrags..
Hitters...i don't know..what...
It is a perplextion....and an annoying
One...
.

 

[ulmax]

Well..free agents..
Conforto.
Rodon..LHP...gonzales..is just not getting better...so bull pen maybe
.on the menu..
And his type of pitcher
.when on.
Out of the pen..can be deadly..

Mariners finnaly drafted a LHP..
About time..but mariners do not have enough good ones..that is why you see so maney..at...AAA

 

[ulmax]

A CL guys..where

annoying...me..they all hit 2.50...
How can that be..
Then milkar..a seeming backslide..
But I'm not sure..
And I know..
Arturo guerrero...is better..than what..
He is hitting know..

 

[ulmax]

If the mariners can get..
Rotation and bull pen..set with depth at
tacoma..
C onforto
Rodon..free agents..
?????
THEN..THEY NEED AN AVERAGE..HITTER
FOR THE 3 SPOT
.270 TO 300 ave LHHitter..binantendi..
Would have worked
Garcia..of washington..would work..
A 2b guy...i have not found..any others
yet..

 

[ulmax]

But ACL..internatinal.guys are going to collage as well..and some..sophs are prob as well..and HS guys..Going for AA
degree..
But baseball..is a class..as well..
And guys need..to debelop..
At A CL

There..does not seem..to be much...
Other
.than.. natural ability...guys..like starlin angular.
. This year..and milkar backslide..
Mariners need...development..
That is what they are..there..for..

 

[ulmax]

But ACL..internatinal.guys are going to collage as well..and some..sophs are prob as well..and HS guys..Going for AA
degree..
But baseball..is a class..as well..
And guys need..to debelop..
At A CL

There..does not seem..to be much...
Other
.than natural ability...guys..like starlin angular.
. This year..and milkar backslide..
Mariners need...development..
That is what they are..there..for..

 

[NWinAZ]

Problem with the comparison of eras is we had Lou back then pushing and screaming for players. He fought for every dollar spent.

Servais is no Piniella

Obviously if the team keeps getting better and we have a few guys hitting high averages, they will attract more hitters who have bought into the idea you can't hit in Seattle. The truth really is the M's haven't shown that they can manage hitters and help them get out of holes. The ones who have hit well here simply didn't need help. That and bad farm teams for several years and low budget meant they had a lineup that needed help/development and didn't get any.

They have probably set Kelenic back years with his mismanagement. Who knows if he would have failed anyway, but they sure didn't set him up for success.

The whole comparison was to point out even with Jr and/or Arod we never got the legit All-Star in your prime bat to go with. Not even Lou could get them to get one. So to me there is no way JD gets one to go with JRod. It scares me to think that we will have another wasted HOF type player because this franchise won't spend the money to get one.

 

[ulmax]

Yard barker..runs down..forcasting.
2022 23..qualifing ..offer..guys
H aniger included..
Mariners below league ave..
At 120 mil

league abv..is 160 mil

6 clubs are over...lux tax...

Mariners could handle.
Haniger..20-25 MIL
RODON...
AND ONE MORE...EASY..
AND HAVE..PROB .
AT LEAST..ONE TRADE..

IMO...THEY..HAVE THE TIGER..BY..THE TAIL.
DON'T LET IT GO...

 

[ulmax]

If they could do it for around 180 mi..
Sounds good...
THEY might..sell..that many..julio.."jack it"...rodrigez
T shirts...or what ever
.cool stuff..on there...lololo

 

[ulmax]

Haniger..
Conforto.
Frazier..L/L..unless they trade for gacia..washinton...2b
R ODON..LHP

And one trade..

 

[seahawksfan234]

Problem with the comparison of eras is we had Lou back then pushing and screaming for players. He fought for every dollar spent.

Servais is no Piniella

Obviously if the team keeps getting better and we have a few guys hitting high averages, they will attract more hitters who have bought into the idea you can't hit in Seattle. The truth really is the M's haven't shown that they can manage hitters and help them get out of holes. The ones who have hit well here simply didn't need help. That and bad farm teams for several years and low budget meant they had a lineup that needed help/development and didn't get any.

They have probably set Kelenic back years with his mismanagement. Who knows if he would have failed anyway, but they sure didn't set him up for success.

I've got nothing here, only quoting to say good post, sir.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The whole comparison was to point out even with Jr and/or Arod we never got the legit All-Star in your prime bat to go with. Not even Lou could get them to get one. So to me there is no way JD gets one to go with JRod. It scares me to think that we will have another wasted HOF type player because this franchise won't spend the money to get one.

There are a lot of options this offseason and if ownership doesn't open up their wallets, I will be convinced that they're either too cheap to build a perennial playoff contender or that hitters really don't want to come here. I think it's more likely the former as opposed to the latter. I just looked at the Mariners splits and as a team they hit slightly better on the road .237/.317/.389 as opposed to at home .227/.312/.376, but that's not enough to make or break a hitter.

 

[wazzu31]

The whole comparison was to point out even with Jr and/or Arod we never got the legit All-Star in your prime bat to go with. Not even Lou could get them to get one. So to me there is no way JD gets one to go with JRod. It scares me to think that we will have another wasted HOF type player because this franchise won't spend the money to get one.

You know me and I am massively bias towards Woody. I will say one positive is at least he tried when Junior was in his prime. Mitchell nor Anthony worked out but they gave up a decent chunk of prospects for them. Sorrento and Segui were both suitable replacements for Tino. Finding a LF was tough but they tried and Woody spent a lot prospect capital trying to find the closer and LF Lou wanted. The trades didn’t work out but he tried. You could argue the Winker/Suarez deal was essentially He was forced to trade Tino and Omar because they wouldn’t open up the wallet to keep them so it is hard to blame him IMO. I think Bosio and Ichiro were the only real FA’s that were acquired with Lou?

If position playing free agents don’t want to come to Seattle then A. They need to lock Julio up this season. B. Stanton needs to force Jerry into making a hat in hand speech to the players. Stanton and Jerry both stated their vision for the Mariners isn’t to be the A’s so he doesn’t have to be the d*ck to his players like Beane is able to because players know they have 2 playoffs runs then will be traded.

 

[NWinAZ]

There are a lot of options this offseason and if ownership doesn't open up their wallets, I will be convinced that they're either too cheap to build a perennial playoff contender or that hitters really don't want to come here. I think it's more likely the former as opposed to the latter. I just looked at the Mariners splits and as a team they hit slightly better on the road .237/.317/.389 as opposed to at home .227/.312/.376, but that's not enough to make or break a hitter.

France and Julio hit better at home. I think good hitters hit better there while bad hitters get eaten alive at home.

2022:
France
Home .310/.392/.503
Away .278/.336/.407

Julio-
Home. .277/.328/.514
Away. .269/.343/.447

 

[NWinAZ]

You know me and I am massively bias towards Woody. I will say one positive is at least he tried when Junior was in his prime. Mitchell nor Anthony worked out but they gave up a decent chunk of prospects for them. Sorrento and Segui were both suitable replacements for Tino. Finding a LF was tough but they tried and Woody spent a lot prospect capital trying to find the closer and LF Lou wanted. The trades didn’t work out but he tried. You could argue the Winker/Suarez deal was essentially He was forced to trade Tino and Omar because they wouldn’t open up the wallet to keep them so it is hard to blame him IMO. I think Bosio and Ichiro were the only real FA’s that were acquired with Lou?

If position playing free agents don’t want to come to Seattle then A. They need to lock Julio up this season. B. Stanton needs to force Jerry into making a hat in hand speech to the players. Stanton and Jerry both stated their vision for the Mariners isn’t to be the A’s so he doesn’t have to be the d*ck to his players like Beane is able to because players know they have 2 playoffs runs then will be traded.

It's an organization fail both back then and now. Mitchell was older and fatter. Anthony was eh before we got him. Swift and Hampton were not highly caught after guys at the time. They were replacement level at the times of the deals. He probably tried, which ironically was Dipoto's line last trade deadline. Mariners in 45 years have yet to fully try. That is sad.

 

[wazzu31]

It's an organization fail both back then and now. Mitchell was older and fatter. Anthony was eh before we got him. Swift and Hampton were not highly caught after guys at the time. They were replacement level at the times of the deals. He probably tried, which ironically was Dipoto's line last trade deadline. Mariners in 45 years have yet to fully try. That is sad.

Yeah but they got Mitchell touting he was a player barely removed from being a star and same with Anthony. I just remember I was psyched for both moves as a little child. I won’t pretend to know their rankings, I just remember as a kid when the Astros or Giants played the Braves (because they had every game televised) they always mentioned it. Kind of similar to Red Sox games before 2004 when they always mention Varitek, Lowe then always did the whole Ortiz and Edgar BS.

I get your disagreement on whether they tried. I think Woody did with as much as he could with the budget. No one at the moment knows if Stanton gave Jerry an open checkbook or FA’s don’t like Jerry (which I think it more likely because Jerry all but named Semien as his number 1 free agent target).

 

[seahawksfan234]

France and Julio hit better at home. I think good hitters hit better there while bad hitters get eaten alive at home.

2022:
France
Home .310/.392/.503
Away .278/.336/.407

Julio-
Home. .277/.328/.514
Away. .269/.343/.447

In Julio's case, I think he lives off the energy.

With France that's kind of surprising because I think he's such a good hitter that he can hit the ball anywhere. I don't know how to explain it, but there is something different about him at the plate. He can defend the plate, has the power to hit it anywhere but when he needs nothing more than a single, he can deliver it.

 

[NWinAZ]

Going back to the JRod extension convo from another thread (didn't feel like finding it...lol). Here is a take on it from Passan. Scary numbers.

ESPN's Passan: Mariners' Julio Rodriguez could get paid 'like nobody else'

ESPN's Jeff Passan breaks down what Julio Rodríguez could net in a new deal and why he thinks the Mariners should attempt to lock him up now.

sports.mynorthwest.com