The most infamous really the most famous?

[OregonDucks]

Ready for your mind to be blown? The Montreal Screwjob was really a work between Hart and McMahon, they knew about it all along. It's been known as one of wrestling most infamous moves, but infamous infers something bad. It really is the most famous move in the history of pro wrestling.

 

[futballiscool]

Agree. It was a work

 

[Mistaken4193]

Yeah Ive considered it. Only because its so convienent that they were filming Wrestling with Shadows at the same time and Brett was wearing a mic in the locker room and when he talked to Vince before and after the match.

 

[Toadman005]

But, Bret became such a bitter guy after and the move didn't;t help him, save financially.

I disagree it was a work.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Ready for your mind to be blown? The Montreal Screwjob was really a work between Hart and McMahon, they knew about it all along. It's been known as one of wrestling most infamous moves, but infamous infers something bad. It really is the most famous move in the history of pro wrestling.

I can believe that because what came soon after...

The Villainous Mr. McMahon.

I think that move ( and not WM13 or Summerslam 97.) really kicked off the Attitude era. Yeah it made Austin but...

I compare it like setting a fire with matches.

WM: Grabbing a match
SS: Streaking it against the side
MS: Throwing it to the fire.

But, Bret became such a bitter guy after and the move didn't;t help him, save financially.

I disagree it was a work.

For a counter argument. I think Bret agreed to use it as work till over the edge 1999. That pissed him off.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Ready for your mind to be blown? The Montreal Screwjob was really a work between Hart and McMahon, they knew about it all along. It's been known as one of wrestling most infamous moves, but infamous infers something bad. It really is the most famous move in the history of pro wrestling.

I gotta say that this was probably one of the smartest things I have heard you say OD.

No offense

 

[Toadman005]

I can believe that because what came soon after...

The Villainous Mr. McMahon.

I think that move ( and not WM13 or Summerslam 97.) really kicked off the Attitude era. Yeah it made Austin but...

I compare it like setting a fire with matches.

WM: Grabbing a match
SS: Streaking it against the side
MS: Throwing it to the fire.



For a counter argument. I think Bret agreed to use it as work till over the edge 1999. That pissed him off.

Interested. Go on, let's hear your reasoning. I'm intrigued.

 

[Judge Fudge]

Interested. Go on, let's hear your reasoning. I'm intrigued.

First off. A point made by mistaken

Yeah Ive considered it. Only because its so convienent that they were filming Wrestling with Shadows at the same time and Brett was wearing a mic in the locker room and when he talked to Vince before and after the match.

And 5 months later. Bam Mr. McMahon

 

[Toadman005]

First off. A point made by mistaken



And 5 months later. Bam Mr. McMahon

Huh?

 

[Judge Fudge]

Huh?

Mr. McMahon was the top heel for most of the Attitude era

 

[carson]

But, Bret became such a bitter guy after and the move didn't;t help him, save financially.

I disagree it was a work.

^ This

Vince didn't need to do any "work" with Bret at the time. Bret lost his babyface status and wasn't going to be a main event guy in what was becoming the Attitude Era. Additionally, no way in hell Vince does anything that would give Bret some heat for the move to WCW, thus helping Turner.

 

[Toadman005]

Mr. McMahon was the top heel for most of the Attitude era

Yes....greatest character in wrestling. But, he didn't come out of the Screwjob playing that up. He came out trying to be a face, painting Bret as an asshole, and fans said fuck you. After weeks of trying the "time old tradition" routine, he decided to say fuck it and run with it.

 

[mrwallace2ku]

Ready for your mind to be blown?

 

[mrwallace2ku]

 

[Mistaken4193]

Only part I believe is that Bret didnt want to put Shawn over clean. So they came up with the screwjob plan so Bret left looking strong while Michaels became champion and it setup WWE with their biggest heel ever going forward.

 

[OregonDucks]

Agreed that Wrestling with Shadows was very conveniently filmed at the same time. Also, this film crew follows Bret all over the place, but conveniently leaves the locker room after one of the biggest and most dramatic moments of the entire documentary? Seems too perfect. Also, there were moments in that documentary that just seemed too staged, like at one point Bret just walks into the kitchen after just getting off the phone with Vince, I cant remember why exactly, but I remember thinking that was a very convenient time to just be getting off the phone with Vince.

Bret explains in the documentary why it makes sense for the screw job to happen. Bret is old school wrestler, kayfab is a huge deal to him. Vince had already sort of ruined a lot of things for Bret character wise, Bret was getting stale, but Bret also was extremely loyal. The entire Hart family was loyal to Vince and WWE. Vince and WWE couldn't afford Bret, Bret was getting stale, ratings for WWE were plummeting, so Bret has to go to WCW to give new blood to WWE and get more money for himself.

They come up with the Montreal Screw Job together. What does this do? It saves Bret "The Hitman" Hart, not only saves his character, but immediately catapults it to wrestling lure. The greatest accomplishment for someone that takes it as seriously as Bret Hart. It also gives him huge momentum in leaving for WCW. Now some may ask, why would Vince give a guy going to the show that was killing his in ratings? Well, Vince is no moron, he knew WCW would talk about it, and where would that talk lead? WWF...like they say, even bad publicity is good publicity. So Bret goes to WCW red hot, saves face, and hopes in being red hot that he'll get paid well at WCW.

Vince and WWE? Well, we are still talking about the moment today. It's sold documentaries, it's sold PPV's, it's sold rating, it also kicked off Mr. McMahon heel which is one, if not, the greatest heel ever. And like others have said, it really kicked off the direction of the Attitude Era, which we all know what became of the WWE and WCW after that.

So in the end, it's a win-win for Vince and Bret. Vince not only kept the WWE alive, he propelled it to eventually take over WCW, and Bret saved his character in WWE and kept him forever in wrestling folk lore.

I think things did get bitter in real life though with Owen's death. The only thing I have heard that makes you think the screw job had to be real is how could the Hart family keep the Screw job a secret still after Owen's incident. My only answer to that is, only Bret knew, and Bret will save character because he's so old school and he knew what the screw job did to his career and legacy. I think Bret's wife at the time may have known given her reaction and involvement with the documentary, but maybe not? If she did, she could keep it quiet too because Bret asked her too and again, she knew what big of a moment it was in wrestling.

I think all these years Shawn and those involved in the screw job think the screw job was real, and only Bret and Vince knew it was a work. It really is pure genius. Only a guy like Bret could sell something that incredible and only Vince could come up with something that impactful.

 

[futballiscool]

"I think all these years Shawn and those involved in the screw job think the screw job was real, and only Bret and Vince knew it was a work. "

I'm a Montreal truther as well but I think Shawn was absolutely in on it from the start.

 

[carson]

They come up with the Montreal Screw Job together. What does this do? It saves Bret "The Hitman" Hart, not only saves his character, but immediately catapults it to wrestling lure. The greatest accomplishment for someone that takes it as seriously as Bret Hart. It also gives him huge momentum in leaving for WCW. Now some may ask, why would Vince give a guy going to the show that was killing his in ratings? Well, Vince is no moron, he knew WCW would talk about it, and where would that talk lead? WWF...like they say, even bad publicity is good publicity. So Bret goes to WCW red hot, saves face, and hopes in being red hot that he'll get paid well at WCW.

Vince and WWE? Well, we are still talking about the moment today. It's sold documentaries, it's sold PPV's, it's sold rating, it also kicked off Mr. McMahon heel which is one, if not, the greatest heel ever. And like others have said, it really kicked off the direction of the Attitude Era, which we all know what became of the WWE and WCW after that.

So in the end, it's a win-win for Vince and Bret. Vince not only kept the WWE alive, he propelled it to eventually take over WCW, and Bret saved his character in WWE and kept him forever in wrestling folk lore.

First off, Wrestling With Shadows began filming before Bret re-signed with WWF. I once read that Vince agreed to allow the doc crew full access because he was doing his best to appease Hart in hopes he would re-sign. As we all know, things soured quick thereafter and Vince asked Brett to jump to WCW b/c he couldn't afford to keep him. So yeah, a cameras were in the right place at the right time, but they were filming for the better part of a year, and the focus was on Bret's pending free agency.

Bret didn't trust Vince and yes, he acknowledged the potential for a screwjob finish. If it was a work, I don't think Bret tips off the audience like that.

Bret was no longer a face outside of Canada. There was a lot of hype about his joining WCW (courtesy of the NWO's recruiting), but he was far from "red hot". Hogan was the mega-heel and Goldberg emerged as the super-face. There really wasn't anywhere for Bret to slot in and, as we witnessed, his transition to WCW was a clumsy failure.

 

[Mistaken4193]

First off, Wrestling With Shadows began filming before Bret re-signed with WWF. I once read that Vince agreed to allow the doc crew full access because he was doing his best to appease Hart in hopes he would re-sign. As we all know, things soured quick thereafter and Vince asked Brett to jump to WCW b/c he couldn't afford to keep him. So yeah, a cameras were in the right place at the right time, but they were filming for the better part of a year, and the focus was on Bret's pending free agency.

Bret didn't trust Vince and yes, he acknowledged the potential for a screwjob finish. If it was a work, I don't think Bret tips off the audience like that.

Bret was no longer a face outside of Canada. There was a lot of hype about his joining WCW (courtesy of the NWO's recruiting), but he was far from "red hot". Hogan was the mega-heel and Goldberg emerged as the super-face. There really wasn't anywhere for Bret to slot in and, as we witnessed, his transition to WCW was a clumsy failure.

Ok but when he talks to Vince about the finish and he had the mic on that just seemed too setup.

 

[carson]

Ok but when he talks to Vince about the finish and he had the mic on that just seemed too setup.

Why wouldn't he have the mic on? The mic was on as long as the cameras were on.