The Jerry Sloan Thread

[Sackataters]

Sakataters - Just curious, what made you a Niner fan? (I assume you went to Oregon, so that explains that.) I am a Ute fan and grew up as a Niner fan, so when Alex Smith was drafted there it was sweet. I know he hasn't had the smoothest of careers and has his limitations, but I'm absolutely loving the Niners winning with him - especially after 2005-2010.

I grew up in Iowa, so was a Hawkeye. I lived up in Logan Utah for a few years and grew to love the Jazz, watching Stock, Jerry and Karl in my father in laws basement. Moved to Oregon. I couldn't embrace the Blazers, so by osmosis went west coast for local football interest. I'm just a casual Duck fan. I like the Niners though because they play Jerry Sloan type of ball...just rugged and in the trench. More than Karl or John, Jerry is more the icon in my eyes.

I like what Smith is doing too. I watched them in the Young and Montana years. But, I relate more to this current incarnation led by Harbaugh.

 

[nuraman00]

I grew up in Iowa, so was a Hawkeye. I lived up in Logan Utah for a few years and grew to love the Jazz, watching Stock, Jerry and Karl in my father in laws basement. Moved to Oregon. I couldn't embrace the Blazers, so by osmosis went west coast for local football interest. I'm just a casual Duck fan. I like the Niners though because they play Jerry Sloan type of ball...just rugged and in the trench. More than Karl or John, Jerry is more the icon in my eyes.

I like what Smith is doing too. I watched them in the Young and Montana years. But, I relate more to this current incarnation led by Harbaugh.

Can you retell the story of how you shook Sloan's hands?

 

[Sackataters]

Can you retell the story of how you shook Sloan's hands?

I went back to SLC for Thanksgiving two years ago and caught the victory against LA in the ESA. I had such a great time that I bought tickets for the Bucks game. My kids and I went super early and watched shoot around. We waited by the tunnel and caught some autographs on our caps...Big Al, Evans, Hayward, Raja (pittuey). Then, Jerry freaking Sloan walks out. My heart starts beating. He does an interview and walks toward the tunnel. Initially, he rebuffs some requests for autographs, but promises that he'll be back. Sure enough, he came back and was so gracious. Signed our tickets and caps. He signed my cap and I went to say thanks, but my voice betrayed me. He was on his way out when I had one of those A Christmas Story moments....no wait, I want a red rider bb gun with a compass in the stock. I managed to find the words to ask if I could shake his hand and get a pic. He said sure. I felt like a kid. Pic didn't turn out great, but it was a great moment. I guess it is that Midwest tough guy Clint Eastwood persona that I respect. Ultimately, that was one of his last games coaching at the ESA.

 

[MHSL82]

I grew up in Iowa, so was a Hawkeye. I lived up in Logan Utah for a few years and grew to love the Jazz, watching Stock, Jerry and Karl in my father in laws basement. Moved to Oregon. I couldn't embrace the Blazers, so by osmosis went west coast for local football interest. I'm just a casual Duck fan. I like the Niners though because they play Jerry Sloan type of ball...just rugged and in the trench. More than Karl or John, Jerry is more the icon in my eyes.

I like what Smith is doing too. I watched them in the Young and Montana years. But, I relate more to this current incarnation led by Harbaugh.

I'm not polyamorous as far as other teams though...I pretty much only chat Jazz basketball. I'm only religious about UT.

Thanks for taking the time to reply; I enjoy getting to know other posters a little better. I understand not being polyamorous. I went to USC for undergrad but am rooting for Utah tomorrow. I am only crazy for the Jazz and Niners. Semi-crazy for Utah. Stable for USC. Non-existent for my law school. I'd rather have them win than lose, but don't really care.

 

[MHSL82]

Post # 43, directly above this one.

As always, you added great points. I admit that I spend more time watching and commenting on offense than I do on defense, though technically the players spend around half the time doing each (except those fast paced offenses that come across a control the clock team). I guess I always watch whatever offense is playing - while I of course see steals, blocks, and rebounds from the defense. I do think of defense when I think of Duncan but when I think of Malone, I think of him being respectable on defense - good at stripping the ball, physically tough, fights for rebounds, and yes, a bit dirty. A lot of his defense was wearing you out when he was on the offensive side.

I think we can agree that Duncan > Malone on defense and Malone > Duncan on offense. We can agree also to disagree on Offense >< Defense, as to the PF position. Right?

I also have to admit, I don't watch much nationally televised games - especially during the Malone days. I lived with my parents and thus, watched what they watched. They'd watch the Jazz, but rarely anyone else. I never lobbied for it and Directv was only hooked up to the living room and parents bedroom. I got regular channels everywhere else. Family time took time away from going alone for even the NBC games.

So, this is one reason I call myself a lay fan - because I just look at Jazz games, box scores, and playoff games from time to time. I value box scores more than advanced statistics because it's more convenient for a hobby - I doubt they'd change my mind anyway. At best, it just shows me why others feel differently about players than I do.

Interesting stuff on Popovich's rotation - makes sense. What do you think of Jerry Sloan? I think he got the most out of fringe players by toughness, will, and some x's and o's. I think Popovich is probably a better strategizer in managing the game and players, but probably is just above average on instilling toughness with his players. I know that he can also get the best from them, too. He seemed to modernize better than Sloan did - which is why I didn't want Sloan to go to Washington, Portland, or Lakers. He was great for where he was established.

 

[nuraman00]

As always, you added great points. I admit that I spend more time watching and commenting on offense than I do on defense, though technically the players spend around half the time doing each (except those fast paced offenses that come across a control the clock team). I guess I always watch whatever offense is playing - while I of course see steals, blocks, and rebounds from the defense. I do think of defense when I think of Duncan but when I think of Malone, I think of him being respectable on defense - good at stripping the ball, physically tough, fights for rebounds, and yes, a bit dirty. A lot of his defense was wearing you out when he was on the offensive side.

I think we can agree that Duncan > Malone on defense and Malone > Duncan on offense. We can agree also to disagree on Offense >< Defense, as to the PF position. Right?

I also have to admit, I don't watch much nationally televised games - especially during the Malone days. I lived with my parents and thus, watched what they watched. They'd watch the Jazz, but rarely anyone else. I never lobbied for it and Directv was only hooked up to the living room and parents bedroom. I got regular channels everywhere else. Family time took time away from going alone for even the NBC games.

So, this is one reason I call myself a lay fan - because I just look at Jazz games, box scores, and playoff games from time to time. I value box scores more than advanced statistics because it's more convenient for a hobby - I doubt they'd change my mind anyway. At best, it just shows me why others feel differently about players than I do.

Interesting stuff on Popovich's rotation - makes sense. What do you think of Jerry Sloan? I think he got the most out of fringe players by toughness, will, and some x's and o's. I think Popovich is probably a better strategizer in managing the game and players, but probably is just above average on instilling toughness with his players. I know that he can also get the best from them, too. He seemed to modernize better than Sloan did - which is why I didn't want Sloan to go to Washington, Portland, or Lakers. He was great for where he was established.

I think both Popovich and Sloan are great coaches. Both tactically sound.

I value that more in a coach than "motivation".

If I wanted to pick at Sloan, I would say that his defense defended the paint too much, and allowed 3's. This was true even for teams that shot 3-pointers.

He wasn't the only one that did that. Larry Brown did the same thing. I could point to many box scores where the Lakers or Detroit would have multiple games with 10+ 3's against Larry Brown's 76ers, within a series. What I mean is that if a series went 6 games, I could probably find at least 2 games where the other team made 10+ 3's. If it happens once in a series, it could be a fluke. But if it happened multiple times, then it was a conscious defensive strategy to give up 3's.

And I do remember Brown coaching like that too, so I'm not just looking up box scores and drawing premature conclusions.

Dunleavy Sr. also did the same thing. Not only that, but he would double-team guys in the paint, even if the opposing team was a good 3-point shooting team. It was frustrating to watch at times. I'm not surprised that the Clippers would have such a hard time against the Suns and Raptors, because of this.

And Sloan didn't run plays for 3-pointers, like Popovich would. It seems like most of the time when his team would take a 3, it wasn't usually a planned play, but a secondary or tertiary option. Sure there were some exceptions in close late-game situations, when a 3-pointer was needed, such as Kirilenko's 3's to beat Houston in game 7 of of the 2007 playoffs. But in general, he didn't use them.

I think we discussed the 3-pointers thing in some olds threads on the ESPN boards.

Sloan's team also fouled too much. Hollinger noted that every year, even before some of the rule changes, they would just foul a lot.

Some of that may be by design. As in wanting to keep a player from feeling as if he was in a rhythm. Or wanting to send a message. But there were times when I thought the fouling hurt the team too. I don't know if it's because he got players that liked to foul, or whether his defensive principle was to foul.

Regardless of these quibbles, his flex offense system, and ability to teach, made him a great coach, even in spite some items of concern that I listed.

And, getting all of those dunks and layup probably offset some of the concern about the lack of shooting 3's.

And I could find something to quibble about any coach.

Jackson - sometimes he didn't call quick timeouts, and he let his players try and work themselves out of it too much. Sloan did the same thing.

Popovich - Pulling guys in regular season games. Sometimes his teams shot too many 3's, but that was part of the system. Sometimes maybe all of that yelling, and having an "appropriate fear" of the opponent wasn't productive.

Etc.


I also watch a lot of national TV games. Not as much as I used to 6-7 years ago, but as much as I can. At least one game a week, but if I like the matchups, it will be more.


As to whether offense is more important or defense for a PF, I don't think I favor one over the other. It's just we're talking about two players who were good to great at both.

If I talk about offense and defense from PFs in general, I can say things like this. Rasheed Wallace was not a good offensive player, only average. His efficiency supports this, despite his having a few good moves in the post.

But he's one of the best defensive PFs I've seen, especially on-the-ball. He could guard PFs, C's, and SFs, and was a good team defender.

I think a large part of Duncan's defensive greatness was his help defensive and team defense. But Malone and Wallace were better on-the-ball defenders. So if I say Duncan might be the best defensive PF, it's because his team defense was just that good.

But if I say Wallace is one of the best defenders too, it's because of what he was good at too, on-the-ball defense. Both can be great defenders for their own unique reasons with respect to defense.

In his prime, I might say Wallace was a better defender than Malone, but Malone would win longevity. Also, while Malone was great at steals, steals only account for 1-2% of possessions in a game. What Wallace was able to do on an average possession, on-the-ball, was probably better than Malone's, in Wallace's prime. But I also think I'm skewed because Rasheed Wallace was on national TV, especially during the regular season, more than Malone.

I did like Malone's defense, but I think a large part of it was his steals, rather than actually contesting shots. I just liked Rasheed's ability to contest shots, whether he got a block, steal, or just made a smart defensive play.

For what it's worth, both Malone and Rasheed ended up with a DRTG of 101 for their careers. (Points allowed per 100 possessions).

Rasheed at both more years better than Malone's best, and more years worse than Malone's worst, according to DRTG.

Most of my favorite players were two-way players.

So whether a player was only good at offense, only good at defense, good at both, great at both, good at one but great at the other; I try to keep it balanced as to what impact it has on a player.

So, back to the question, do I think offense or defense is more important for a PF? I don't think either is more important, it just matters to what extent he could do each one, when comparing him to others. And of course, in this case, comparing Malone to Duncan, you're comparing the greatest. So the margins are thin.

 

[beardown07]

Jerry Sloan for President!!!




Shit would get done.

 

[nuraman00]

Jerry Sloan for President!!!




Shit would get done.

LOL! I wished I had refreshed this thread earlier.

 

[MHSL82]

I have his autograph.

another rarity

I got his autograph at a movie theatre. The funny thing is, my brother is the one who recognized him and he's the last person to be into sports. In my defense, I wasn't looking and he was looking around. I probably would have recognized him if I saw him walking around. But, I think I was so excited that I ended up asking him, he gave it to me, I thanked him, and he nodded. If I were the one to spot him, I probably would have decided not to bug him, it was just the quickness of the whole thing (he was about to get his ticket ripped to enter.

When I met Jerry Seinfeld at the Bee Movie premiere, I decided against asking him for an autograph because I was invited by my brother who works at DreamWorks and I can imagine Seinfeld thinking, "this is exactly why I don't do these things." I instead just told him that I liked his movie, thinking that saying anything about the show would be like, "remember that thing you did years ago and now haven't done anything since?" I think I remember him doing a sketch or saying in an interview that wanting another human being to write his name on something is odd. The funny thing is, I might be confusing this with handshakes, why would one human being want to shake another human being's hands and say "I touched his hand!" I shook his hand.

If I got his autograph, I wouldn't sell it, so I don't care about its value. I probably wouldn't post it, either, I'd just have it in some room with other memories. I didn't have a pen and neither did my brother at the time so asking him both for an autograph, pen, and paper would have been really awkward. Worth it perhaps, as he won't remember me, but just shaking his hands was good enough for me. I like that I got to meet him, he was nice, and he didn't seem impatient or anything. He's my second favorite comedian, after Steve Martin.

 

[nuraman00]

I got his autograph at a movie theatre. The funny thing is, my brother is the one who recognized him and he's the last person to be into sports. In my defense, I wasn't looking and he was looking around. I probably would have recognized him if I saw him walking around. But, I think I was so excited that I ended up asking him, he gave it to me, I thanked him, and he nodded. If I were the one to spot him, I probably would have decided not to bug him, it was just the quickness of the whole thing (he was about to get his ticket ripped to enter.

When I met Jerry Seinfeld at the Bee Movie premiere, I decided against asking him for an autograph because I was invited by my brother who works at DreamWorks and I can imagine Seinfeld thinking, "this is exactly why I don't do these things." I instead just told him that I liked his movie, thinking that saying anything about the show would be like, "remember that thing you did years ago and now haven't done anything since?" I think I remember him doing a sketch or saying in an interview that wanting another human being to write his name on something is odd. The funny thing is, I might be confusing this with handshakes, why would one human being want to shake another human being's hands and say "I touched his hand!" I shook his hand.

If I got his autograph, I wouldn't sell it, so I don't care about its value. I probably wouldn't post it, either, I'd just have it in some room with other memories. I didn't have a pen and neither did my brother at the time so asking him both for an autograph, pen, and paper would have been really awkward. Worth it perhaps, as he won't remember me, but just shaking his hands was good enough for me. I like that I got to meet him, he was nice, and he didn't seem impatient or anything. He's my second favorite comedian, after Steve Martin.

I've seen Seinfeld do standup twice: 2004, 2011.

 

[nuraman00]

Reposing Sackataters's post of how he met Sloan, from another site.

++++++++++++++++++++

Nuraman!! Off the top of my head, I wouldn't even know how to go into the archive with this new venue. It is funny though. My father-in-law is in town today (he lives in Utah). We were talking Jazz basketball. I've been a Jazz man since 1998. The one pillar that has always been there is Jerry Sloan. When John retired, yeah that was tough. Seeing Karl wear the gold jersey, that was bad. But, for me, it doesn't even come close to that day last winter when I heard that Jerry was retiring. I literally went kind of numb. It was one of those "when the music died" moments (American Pie).


As far as THE handshake, it really was a heart-racing moment for me. I was in town for the Thanksgiving holiday. My father-in-law purchased a couple lower bowl tickets for the Lakers game (birthday present). Well, we actually came from behind and beat the Lakers in the ESA. The confetti was flying everywhere. It was so awesome - being that close to the action. So, I had to see one more game before I made the trip back home. They were playing the Bucks - cheaper tickets - so I took my wife and 2 kids. We arrived really early to see the players shoot-around. We went down to the tunnel area and the kids got a few autographs - Bell, Memo, Evans, Big Al. Then, THE legend came walking down the tunnel to do a quick pre-game interview. He looked up at us and said, I'll be right back - just give me a moment. Well, most of the kids that had been eagerly waiting for players kind of lost interest - who is that old man? Not me though, I was frozen like a deer in headlights. Sure enough, he came back - signed my son's ballcap and a couple tickets. I tried several times to say "thank you Jerry", but the voice wouldn't come - SPEECHLESS, breathy air. But, finally, I got my pulse down to about 160 and thanked him. I asked if I could shake his hand and he said "sure". The old lady standing guard at the bottom of the stairs let my by real quick and I got to shake his hand. It only lasted a few seconds and then he was off to tend to his team. But, my wife could see it in my eyes when I walked up the stairs - like a kid on Xmas morning.


So, that was a great day. I don't idolize people, but Jerry Sloan is a living legend in my eyes. I admire his work ethic, his humble approach. He is like an old juniper tree up on a ridge, unwaivering and unmovable - timeless. It will be very interesting to watch the Jazz play (when the lockout ends). Hopefully, we'll see a little Sloan in Coach Corbin - at least some curse words and a few T's. Sorry for the wordy post! Go Jazz.



October 1 2011, 8:09 PM

 

[MHSL82]

Reposing Sackataters's post of how he met Sloan, from another site.

++++++++++++++++++++

When John retired, yeah that was tough. Seeing Karl wear the gold jersey, that was bad. But, for me, it doesn't even come close to that day last winter when I heard that Jerry was retiring. I literally went kind of numb. It was one of those "when the music died" moments (American Pie)...Sorry for the wordy post! Go Jazz.

I won't pretend to be as big of a Jerry fan as you are because when people pretend to be as much of Steve Martin/Alex Smith/Jeremy Lin fan as I am, it annoys me unless I believe them. But, I too felt a bit numb when I heard it because it was a stable thing in life. Death, taxes, and Jerry Sloan were about the only things you could count on being there. Honestly, I think we all wish taxes or death was the one removed. However, Stockton was the biggest sadness of them all for me - the way he said he was done. The reporter asked him when he was sitting at his locker and he said something to the effect of "I think I'm done." I would seriously owe someone a lot if they found that on YouTube or video. I'm not an emotional guy, but I felt physically sad when I heard that because of the way he said it. I'm not talking about the press conference.

 

[nuraman00]

I won't pretend to be as big of a Jerry fan as you are because when people pretend to be as much of Steve Martin/Alex Smith/Jeremy Lin fan as I am, it annoys me unless I believe them. But, I too felt a bit numb when I heard it because it was a stable thing in life. Death, taxes, and Jerry Sloan were about the only things you could count on being there. Honestly, I think we all wish taxes or death was the one removed. However, Stockton was the biggest sadness of them all for me - the way he said he was done. The reporter asked him when he was sitting at his locker and he said something to the effect of "I think I'm done." I would seriously owe someone a lot if they found that on YouTube or video. I'm not an emotional guy, but I felt physically sad when I heard that because of the way he said it. I'm not talking about the press conference.

I remember that.

It would be unlikely to be on YouTube, that was just getting started then.

 

[Sackataters]

I won't pretend to be as big of a Jerry fan as you are because when people pretend to be as much of Steve Martin/Alex Smith/Jeremy Lin fan as I am, it annoys me unless I believe them. But, I too felt a bit numb when I heard it because it was a stable thing in life. Death, taxes, and Jerry Sloan were about the only things you could count on being there. Honestly, I think we all wish taxes or death was the one removed. However, Stockton was the biggest sadness of them all for me - the way he said he was done. The reporter asked him when he was sitting at his locker and he said something to the effect of "I think I'm done." I would seriously owe someone a lot if they found that on YouTube or video. I'm not an emotional guy, but I felt physically sad when I heard that because of the way he said it. I'm not talking about the press conference.

Check out this video on YouTube: the announcement is at the end.

John Stockton's last post-game press conference and retirement announcement - YouTube

 

[Sackataters]

Jerry Sloan is in the house.

Al is consistently kicking the ball out when he's double teamed now. He has evolved during his time with the Jazz. Anyone really think the Jazz will let him go?

 

[MHSL82]

Jerry Sloan is in the house.

Al is consistently kicking the ball out when he's double teamed now. He has evolved during his time with the Jazz. Anyone really think the Jazz will let him go?

I don't expect it and it would depend on who we get on whether I think it's a good trade. I don't want any money savers or trade exceptions (not sure if he's even eligible). Either keep him or get someone that can help us. I'm not clamoring for a trade, though.

 

[MHSL82]

Jerry Sloan is in the house.

Al is consistently kicking the ball out when he's double teamed now. He has evolved during his time with the Jazz. Anyone really think the Jazz will let him go?

Do you mean literally or just that Al is playing Jerry Sloan basketball?

 

[Sackataters]

Do you mean literally or just that Al is playing Jerry Sloan basketball?

Literally, they showed him up there in his seat. Corbin looked up his way when the Wiz made their run.

 

[Sackataters]

Yes. And he'll grow to dislike everyone eventually, in turn. Just my opinion. Carlisimo is good, but so was Sloan. Once DW gets blamed for any struggles (and all teams struggle from time to time), he'll consider doing it again and maybe he will. I do think he was put on notice when people noticed the Avery fire and then linked it to the Sloan "resigning". So I expect him on good behavior until next season or the next. (No, I don't expect them to win anything in the playoffs besides maybe a series or two.)

If we had just had Sloan's back, we would still have him. I think the FO didn't know what they were doing. They were so focused one minute on keeping Williams, that they took Sloan for granted or pushed him out. Once he was gone, they realized they weren't keeping Williams and traded him. It was cutting the nose to spite the face.

I wish the real story would come out about what happened with Jerry, the Millers, and Deron that night. Jerry's system made Deron a quality PG. I know Deron has some chip on his shoulder about not measuring up. He went to the big city to get notoriety. But, I think SLC was more suited to his stormy personality. Here, it wouldn't be center stage...the FO hid it well here.

 

[MHSL82]

I wish the real story would come out about what happened with Jerry, the Millers, and Deron that night. Jerry's system made Deron a quality PG. I know Deron has some chip on his shoulder about not measuring up. He went to the big city to get notoriety. But, I think SLC was more suited to his stormy personality. Here, it wouldn't be center stage...the FO hid it well here.

Me too. I hate that every d**n thing is f***ing filtered through PR and PC s**t, as if we're some a**h**e that doesn't deserve to know the ******* truth.

I mean, I would gratefully appreciate if matters weren't handled in a matter that does not allow the fan-base to know about events that have an effect on the franchise and the respectable reputations of those we care about in such a degree.