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The Golden State Warriors are NOTHING Without.....

SlinkyRedfoot

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Oh i understand what they want to do- I just think its stupid.

Any plan with with LeBron in his age 34 season that is not "going for it" is stupid in my opinion.

before the season started 4 years ago the Cavs dealt Wiggins- an absolutely top level blue chip prospect for Kevin Love because Wiggins and LeBron's prime's just did not lineup.

Four years later- the Lakers could have made a deal for Kawhi Leonard supposedly if they dealt Ingram and Kuzma. No matter what happens- even if Ingram and Kuzma get every single ounce of talent out of their potential- LeBron will be into his late thirties before they hit their primes.

To throw away one of the last true prime years of arguably the best player of all time in order to take time to develop youngsters is galactically stupid if you ask me. It borders on gross basketball negligence.

How you can saddle LeBron James with a bunch of kids and a bunch of cast-offs on 1 year contacts is beyond me.

I realize the plan- try and develop the young guys this year- and then go back in free agency next year- I just think its insanely stupid and is a colossal waste. The Lakers could EASILY have either George or Kawhi if they were willing to trade some of their young guys right now and they would be a sprained ankle in a playoff series away from being title contenders.

Instead they have practically no hope of anything more than a 2nd round appearance- IF things work out.

To me that makes no sense.

To not take advantage of LeBron James' prime can be classified as nothing less than simple abject stupidity if you ask me.


and not only that- but then to ignore what has made James' teams succesful in the past- shooting shooting and more shooting with some tough rebounding bigs thrown in for 2nd chance opportunities seems even more insane to me. The Lakers had the playbook

Vets, Shooting, some tough front court players

instead they decided to go with

young guys, ball handlers, and bigs like McGee, Wagner, Beasley, Zubac.

its mind-boggling

So, which team do you think Lee Brown should have gone to? The Rockets?
 

WiggyRuss

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Why do you assume that's what they're doing. What if they're going to get more big names and build a super team? I'd think that's what they're doing as opposed to waiting for those young guys to develop.
I mean- look at the actions of the team.

From what we read they would not even discuss Brandon Ingram in a trade for Kawhi Leonard.
 

WiggyRuss

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So, which team do you think Lee Brown should have gone to? The Rockets?
i think he should have gone wherever he wanted to- thats certainly his right

if winning was what was important to him than Philly or Houston were the obvious choices.
 

SlinkyRedfoot

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I mean- look at the actions of the team.

From what we read they would not even discuss Brandon Ingram in a trade for Kawhi Leonard.

If they had Kawhi Leonard, do you think they'd be the favorites to win The Finals this year?
 

ATL96Steeler

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The thing you're not factoring in about Steph and Klay is that both were already on an upward trajectory. They improved every year and every year their numbers got even better. It's not a stretch to say that both would still be improving going into their primes, with or without Kerr. Kerr definitely gave them the right push, but to say both are products of Steve Kerr is short sighted at best.

With respects to Draymond, Kerr didn't even really intend for Draymond to have a role on the team. He became the starter when David Lee got injured to start the year and was forced to start Draymond. Draymond was able to solidify his spot and played so well that Kerr HAD to keep him in there. Additionally Kerr never intended to go small at all. It was all a product of Draymond and the revelation of what he could be as a player when he was able to start. Draymond is as much a product of luck as he is anything else. It's entirely possible that Draymond's potential would have been untapped for years if David Lee did not get injured. Lee was to be a big part of Steve Kerr's offense, but instead the team became a defensive juggernaut because of Draymond. Go back and look at Draymond's comments at their NBA championship parade. He called out Steve Kerr for saying that Kerr didn't even like him. That was absolutely true. Kerr didn't like Draymond and told him to begin the year he didn't know how he was going to fit him on the team and didn't know if he could even guarantee him minutes.

I absolutely agree Mark Jackson was not taking the Warriors to the championship. Coaching 100% matters in the NBA. But when you reference Jordan, you're finessing facts to support your own conclusion instead of viewing them for what they are. Jordan is the best player in NBA history, so comparisons to him are really outlandish in every aspect. So you saying he accomplished a lot, while having losing records his first 3 seasons in the NBA just seems argumentative. Because in actuality he didn't accomplish anything. He had a losing record his first 3 years in the NBA, but made the playoffs because teams with bad records could make it back then. But you herald his accomplishments, but diminish Curry's by saying him winning 1 playoff series doesn't count (when Jordan did the exact same).

I get your stance, I understand your perspective, I just completely disagree. And this is coming from a Warriors fan who has seen the dynamics of the team and how things have taken shape. Just go back and actually look at Curry's development his last year under Mark Jackson. He was phenomenal and people saw that he could develop into a top tier NBA player, if he wasn't considered one already.


This post should shut down the thread...really nothing more to be said. Really interesting tidbits on Kerr & Draymond.
 

WiggyRuss

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If they had Kawhi Leonard, do you think they'd be the favorites to win The Finals this year?
the favorites? absolutely not

a chance?

absolutely

all of a sudden you have a guy that can cover Durant and let LeBron do his thing.
 

Yo Tee

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The thing you're not factoring in about Steph and Klay is that both were already on an upward trajectory. They improved every year and every year their numbers got even better. It's not a stretch to say that both would still be improving going into their primes, with or without Kerr. Kerr definitely gave them the right push, but to say both are products of Steve Kerr is short sighted at best.

With respects to Draymond, Kerr didn't even really intend for Draymond to have a role on the team. He became the starter when David Lee got injured to start the year and was forced to start Draymond. Draymond was able to solidify his spot and played so well that Kerr HAD to keep him in there. Additionally Kerr never intended to go small at all. It was all a product of Draymond and the revelation of what he could be as a player when he was able to start. Draymond is as much a product of luck as he is anything else. It's entirely possible that Draymond's potential would have been untapped for years if David Lee did not get injured. Lee was to be a big part of Steve Kerr's offense, but instead the team became a defensive juggernaut because of Draymond. Go back and look at Draymond's comments at their NBA championship parade. He called out Steve Kerr for saying that Kerr didn't even like him. That was absolutely true. Kerr didn't like Draymond and told him to begin the year he didn't know how he was going to fit him on the team and didn't know if he could even guarantee him minutes.

I absolutely agree Mark Jackson was not taking the Warriors to the championship. Coaching 100% matters in the NBA. But when you reference Jordan, you're finessing facts to support your own conclusion instead of viewing them for what they are. Jordan is the best player in NBA history, so comparisons to him are really outlandish in every aspect. So you saying he accomplished a lot, while having losing records his first 3 seasons in the NBA just seems argumentative. Because in actuality he didn't accomplish anything. He had a losing record his first 3 years in the NBA, but made the playoffs because teams with bad records could make it back then. But you herald his accomplishments, but diminish Curry's by saying him winning 1 playoff series doesn't count (when Jordan did the exact same).

I get your stance, I understand your perspective, I just completely disagree. And this is coming from a Warriors fan who has seen the dynamics of the team and how things have taken shape. Just go back and actually look at Curry's development his last year under Mark Jackson. He was phenomenal and people saw that he could develop into a top tier NBA player, if he wasn't considered one already.

You being a Warriors fan is the reason why I'm glad we're having a good discussion because you obviously know more about the Warriors than I do. I definitely agree with Curry and Klay improving. I just don't think Mark Jackson was able to get this MVP level of play out of them even with them improving year over year. I'm not saying that the 1 playoff series doesn't count, I'm just saying with the Bulls, the improvements were steady, not as drastic as the Warriors' success is. MJ had already won an MVP award, the Bulls had already won 3 playoff series and lost in a conference final before Phil Jackson came in and it was in his 2nd year that they won an NBA title. With the Warriors, it's like night and day from 13-14 to 14-15. 1-2 in playoff series and an early exit the year before and the next year, here they are, winning it all. That's just crazy to me. Yes they won 50 games, but that success didn't transfer very well to the playoffs. Kerr comes in and the game literally changes and hasn't been the same since.

I totally get the other side of the discussion. Totally get it and you bring up very valid points about the players because right now, if you take Steph Curry from Golden State and put him on the Cavs, the Warriors become instantly worse and the Cavs probably become the league favorite to win the title. Same thing with KD. You take KD off the Warriors and send him to Houston, GS probably doesn't win the NBA title that year. I just think Kerr's coaching was able to not only get that level of play from the GS Originals, but also garner the success that brought over KD, essentially creating this mass success over the last 4 years.
 

SlinkyRedfoot

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the favorites? absolutely not

a chance?

absolutely

all of a sudden you have a guy that can cover Durant and let LeBron do his thing.

Well, if I were Magic Johnson, I'd read your stuff about being galacticly stupid and committing gross basketball negligence, and then I'd kick my feet up on my desk, light a cigar with a flaming $100 bill, and laugh at you.
 

Wamu

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the favorites? absolutely not

a chance?

absolutely

all of a sudden you have a guy that can cover Durant and let LeBron do his thing.

You're my favorite wiggy. Just don't stop the craziness. It's good times & would be missed greatly if your special brand of thinking wasn't around.:heh:
 

CitySushi

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This post should shut down the thread...really nothing more to be said. Really interesting tidbits on Kerr & Draymond.


At 1:22 he talks about how Steve Kerr hates when he shoots the ball and how everytime Draymond makes a shot he looks at Kerr.

At 2:17 he brings Kerr up with him and talks about how Kerr hated him in training camp.
 

msgkings322

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I'm not sensitive, I just hate it when people try to create an argument with assumptions that they made up in their head and not taking what I said or what my opinion/s is/are and create reasonable and constructive dialogue.
We have been having a dialogue, I already said you have a kernel of truth but you are blowing it up too large. That's all. And everyone here thinks my take is closer to the truth than yours.
 

Yo Tee

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We have been having a dialogue, I already said you have a kernel of truth but you are blowing it up too large. That's all. And everyone here thinks my take is closer to the truth than yours.

Look at the discussion I've had with CitySushi. That's how you have a discussion. Not the way you've been trying to go about it.

"If you were smart..."
"You refuse to secede"
Making assumptions that I said or indicated anywhere that I know more about basketball and trying to start an argument about something you made up.
Saying my opinion is dumb.

Yeah, we've been having a dialogue, a shitty one led by your lack of being able to have an actual debate/conversation/discussion about it. You disagree, that's fine. But there's no reason to belittle me because you disagree.
 

msgkings322

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Look at the discussion I've had with CitySushi. That's how you have a discussion. Not the way you've been trying to go about it.

"If you were smart..."
"You refuse to secede"
Making assumptions that I said or indicated anywhere that I know more about basketball and trying to start an argument about something you made up.
Saying my opinion is dumb.

Yeah, we've been having a dialogue, a shitty one led by your lack of being able to have an actual debate/conversation/discussion about it. You disagree, that's fine. But there's no reason to belittle me because you disagree.
I guess I was reacting to your absolutist tone. When this thread started you were very confidently saying the team and Curry weren't shit without Kerr, in a very aggressive way. That they maybe win a ring without him, maybe just one. So I responded in kind, with snark. Now that you see you went too far with it, you are being more civil, and so am I.

Success!:suds:
 

SlinkyRedfoot

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Look at the discussion I've had with CitySushi. That's how you have a discussion. Not the way you've been trying to go about it.

"If you were smart..."
"You refuse to secede"

giphy.gif
 

jontaejones

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STEVE KERR.

Yes, The Golden State Warriors are not 3 time NBA Champions without their Head Coach, Steve Kerr.

Stephan Curry joined the Warriors in 09-10. Klay Thompson in 11-12 and Draymond Green in 12-13. In the years from 09-10 until Steve Kerr joined as head coach in 2014-15, which was 6 seasons, the Golden State Warriors had 2 playoff appearances, 1 playoff series win and 2 years with more than 40 wins. But, since Steve Kerr joined in 2014-15, the Warriors have gone to 4 straight NBA finals, won 3 of them and have had no less than 58 wins in each of the last 4 years.

Every last bit of the success the Warriors have had as of late belongs to Steve Kerr. Yes, Steph Curry, Klay Thompson and the rest of the Warriors starters are key players, but the Warriors had Steph for 5 years and Klay for 2 years before they started winning anything substantial. Without Steve Kerr, the Golden State Warriors are still meddling in the 6th, 7th and 8th seed of the Western Conference.

If anything, if they had a real good coach, they'd have 4 rings in a row...
 
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