The Giants know.....

[filosofy29]

they have to win one more right? A lot of confident talk and World Series talk......come on boys, you still have a lot of work to do against a dangerous Phillies club.

San Francisco Giants win Game 4 thriller - San Jose Mercury News

Not to sure I like the comments by Pablo and Romo (especially since Romo's been GAWD AWFUL THE ENTIRE PLAYOFFS).

 

[gp956]

Romo's comment was good, I thought. Confidence. Pablo's was more about thinking it's already over - not good.

 

[gp956]

Sabean - always planned to trade Molina at mid-season:

World Series could be tale of two catchers

Giants GM Brian Sabean revealed Wednesday that he knew from the moment he signed Molina that the club would trade him later in the summer.

"That was rehearsed -- set in stone, really -- once we decided not to start the year with Buster," Sabean told the Mercury News. "Bengie was going to be a bridge, and once Buster was ready, we were going to bring him into the mix and trade Bengie.

"That was the plan almost going all the way back to the winter meetings (in December). We were fortuitous that Bengie turned down the Mets and signed with us. But (if not), we would've signed another catcher and lined it up the same way, because Buster wasn't ready."

............................

Sabean said he knew Molina was expendable when Triple-A Fresno manager Steve Decker gave a strong endorsement of Posey, combined with other scouting evaluations.

CoachCrusher!

 

[filosofy29]

Sabean - always planned to trade Molina at mid-season:

World Series could be tale of two catchers

Giants GM Brian Sabean revealed Wednesday that he knew from the moment he signed Molina that the club would trade him later in the summer.

"That was rehearsed -- set in stone, really -- once we decided not to start the year with Buster," Sabean told the Mercury News. "Bengie was going to be a bridge, and once Buster was ready, we were going to bring him into the mix and trade Bengie.

"That was the plan almost going all the way back to the winter meetings (in December). We were fortuitous that Bengie turned down the Mets and signed with us. But (if not), we would've signed another catcher and lined it up the same way, because Buster wasn't ready."

............................

Sabean said he knew Molina was expendable when Triple-A Fresno manager Steve Decker gave a strong endorsement of Posey, combined with other scouting evaluations.

CoachCrusher!

Sabean really does read the other board.

 

[ElJimador]

Sabean - always planned to trade Molina at mid-season:

World Series could be tale of two catchers

Giants GM Brian Sabean revealed Wednesday that he knew from the moment he signed Molina that the club would trade him later in the summer.

"That was rehearsed -- set in stone, really -- once we decided not to start the year with Buster," Sabean told the Mercury News. "Bengie was going to be a bridge, and once Buster was ready, we were going to bring him into the mix and trade Bengie.

"That was the plan almost going all the way back to the winter meetings (in December). We were fortuitous that Bengie turned down the Mets and signed with us. But (if not), we would've signed another catcher and lined it up the same way, because Buster wasn't ready."

............................

Sabean said he knew Molina was expendable when Triple-A Fresno manager Steve Decker gave a strong endorsement of Posey, combined with other scouting evaluations.

CoachCrusher!

Sounds plausible but I don't buy it. All the reports at the time of the trade said it was Rangers GM Jon Daniels who made it happen because Texas was so desparate for a catcher. Just like I don't buy Sabean now saying that they wanted Ross all along when it's been reported from the beginning that it the Giants' claim was just to block the Padres from getting him.

Sabean's had a great year but there's been a lot of luck involved and I'd respect him more if he either admitted it or just said nothing instead of trying to claim now that every move was according to plan.

 

[gp956]

Sounds plausible but I don't buy it. All the reports at the time of the trade said it was Rangers GM Jon Daniels who made it happen because Texas was so desparate for a catcher. Just like I don't buy Sabean now saying that they wanted Ross all along when it's been reported from the beginning that it the Giants' claim was just to block the Padres from getting him.

Sabean's had a great year but there's been a lot of luck involved and I'd respect him more if he either admitted it or just said nothing instead of trying to claim now that every move was according to plan.

Oh, I don't doubt there was a plan with Molina, contingent on Posey's development. I also don't doubt the Giants were satisfied with obtaining Ross even if that were the worst case result of blocking SD.

But, of course, this could just be a smoke screen for the already voiced opinion that they held Posey back to get an extra year of team control.

 

[SF11704]

Looking at moves in the past that were SUCCESSFUL are always 'easy on the eyes'. You actually have an ability to spin them in a few different directions. As long as they were SUCCESSFUL most people will go with what ever spin is presented. Posey is a win-win in almost any scenario at the moment. He came. He saw and he conquered AND we are in the post season - but - would we all think if he was held out another month and we missed the playoffs by 2 games or less? The piece of the equation that defines success for us Giant fans is 'reaching the post season'. I think luch also played a pretty big role in just how successful his moves are being preceived as. His moves had nothing to do with SDs ten game slide.

 

[Heathbar012]

Sounds plausible but I don't buy it. All the reports at the time of the trade said it was Rangers GM Jon Daniels who made it happen because Texas was so desparate for a catcher. Just like I don't buy Sabean now saying that they wanted Ross all along when it's been reported from the beginning that it the Giants' claim was just to block the Padres from getting him.

Sabean's had a great year but there's been a lot of luck involved and I'd respect him more if he either admitted it or just said nothing instead of trying to claim now that every move was according to plan.

I agree with you, but I don't know if I would be able to do the same thing in such a volatile work environment. Sadly, sports front offices (even more so than regular everyday work offices, in my opinion) are one of the few places where you have to take credit for luck and deflect mistakes as someone else's bad decision or you won't be at that job much longer.

I'm one to admit my mistakes and defer to luck in the appropriate situation, but if it's the difference between keeping a multi-million dollar a year job or getting a "lucky" tag that could land me in the unemployment line after one bad year, I'll probably take credit where it isn't quite completely deserved. I hate to admit it, but even though Sabean's revisionist history may not me honorable; it sure is smart.

 

[gp956]

Looking at moves in the past that were SUCCESSFUL are always 'easy on the eyes'. You actually have an ability to spin them in a few different directions. As long as they were SUCCESSFUL most people will go with what ever spin is presented. Posey is a win-win in almost any scenario at the moment. He came. He saw and he conquered AND we are in the post season - but - would we all think if he was held out another month and we missed the playoffs by 2 games or less? The piece of the equation that defines success for us Giant fans is 'reaching the post season'. I think luch also played a pretty big role in just how successful his moves are being preceived as. His moves had nothing to do with SDs ten game slide.

Yeah, except I don't think Sabean was saying the Giants made the playoffs because of this plan to bring Posey along when he was ready. More than anything he was saying Molina wasn't moved because of any deficiency in ability - it was just the plan from the get-go.

 

[Heathbar012]

Yeah, except I don't think Sabean was saying the Giants made the playoffs because of this plan to bring Posey along when he was ready. More than anything he was saying Molina wasn't moved because of any deficiency in ability - it was just the plan from the get-go.

Good point. And it would sound pretty stupid to say, "Yeah. We shipped this guy out for a middle reliever we're not using and a prospect we might never use because he was blowing it," when the guy has 1.061 OPS in the playoffs. For the record, loved, still love and will always love this trade.

 

[gp956]

Good point. And it would sound pretty stupid to say, "Yeah. We shipped this guy out for a middle reliever we're not using and a prospect we might never use because he was blowing it," when the guy has 1.061 OPS in the playoffs. For the record, loved, still love and will always love this trade.

Yeah. I HATED the Molina signing - put a damper on the whole off-season for me. But I believed/hoped they would move him at some point during the season. Trade day was a really good day for me.

 

[SF11704]

Yeah I agree that was his overall goal/plan when he first put some of the pieces in motion. I also feel that when Molina was traded there wasn't really any other options available. I think it would have been trade or release. Posey was the heir to the throne and Molina was well aware of that. Molina was a good Giant but I don't believe he would have been a good mentor for Posey. I think he was bitter about losing his role on the team. It worked out very well for both players and the Giants in general. Everyone was winner in the end.

 

[gp956]

Yeah I agree that was his overall goal/plan when he first put some of the pieces in motion. I also feel that when Molina was traded there wasn't really any other options available. I think it would have been trade or release. Posey was the heir to the throne and Molina was well aware of that. Molina was a good Giant but I don't believe he would have been a good mentor for Posey. I think he was bitter about losing his role on the team. It worked out very well for both players and the Giants in general. Everyone was winner in the end.

Exactly.

 

[tzill]

Yeah, except I don't think Sabean was saying the Giants made the playoffs because of this plan to bring Posey along when he was ready. More than anything he was saying Molina wasn't moved because of any deficiency in ability - it was just the plan from the get-go.

That's exactly my take too. Somebody was going to need a veteran catcher with some hitting ability down the stretch...it just so happened Texas was that club. Adding Chris Ray was found money.

 

[tzill]

Yeah. I HATED the Molina signing - put a damper on the whole off-season for me. But I believed/hoped they would move him at some point during the season. Trade day was a really good day for me.

I wanted Torrealba and wondered why we didn't pursue him harder...now I can see why. Molina's trade value added to his familiarity with the staff clinched it.

 

[gp956]

I wanted Torrealba and wondered why we didn't pursue him harder...now I can see why. Molina's trade value added to his familiarity with the staff clinched it.

Good point. Although I've never been a fan of his game calling or defensive skills, I'll defer to the professionals' opinion this one time.

 

[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

Good point. Although I've never been a fan of his game calling or defensive skills, I'll defer to the professionals' opinion this one time.

It's very hard to measure game calling and Catcher defense, but I must say, I really don't know what the Scouts see with Molina.

1) Terrible at blocking balls in the dirt. All of those "wild pitches" in that Dodger series at home caused my remote to go through the TV.

2) His throwing was in big time decline. At times he would 2 hop it to 2nd base.

3) This is the hardest one to judge, but I actually HATED his game calling. He called way too many fastballs in stupid counts, ala 0-1, 0-2, and 1-2.


And lastly, just like with Fred Lewis, the pouting this guy did really made me turn on him. The posey pouting in September last year, then in May this year he told a reporter "I wish the Mets had signed me". I was at the end of my rope with the guy.

And I agree. The day we received Michael Main and Chris Ray was a glorious day for all Giants fans.

 

[filosofy29]

It's very hard to measure game calling and Catcher defense, but I must say, I really don't know what the Scouts see with Molina.

1) Terrible at blocking balls in the dirt. All of those "wild pitches" in that Dodger series at home caused my remote to go through the TV.

2) His throwing was in big time decline. At times he would 2 hop it to 2nd base.

3) This is the hardest one to judge, but I actually HATED his game calling. He called way too many fastballs in stupid counts, ala 0-1, 0-2, and 1-2.


And lastly, just like with Fred Lewis, the pouting this guy did really made me turn on him. The posey pouting in September last year, then in May this year he told a reporter "I wish the Mets had signed me". I was at the end of my rope with the guy.

And I agree. The day we received Michael Main and Chris Ray was a glorious day for all Giants fans.

LOL, you and gp are going to hit it off famously.

You hit the nail on the head. I knew about 1 and 2, but gp kind of opened my eyes (especially with Zito) on #3.

 

[gp956]

FYI regarding Sabean and the Molina comment:

Baggs article spawned a typical, for them, 300+ post free-for-all at McCovey Chronicles.....

This post:

Brian Sabean is a known historical revisionist from way back. He is constantly inventing stories for, and placing “rumors” in, the press to buck up his public image and stroke his own ego. 25% of the stuff that he says in the media directly contradicts 25% of what he said or did previously. He’s a very petty and thin-skinned man for length of time that he’s been in power, the money that he’s made, and power that he wields.

Had this response, which I think is relevant here:

Funny you should say this

I talked with Baggs before today’s game and we discussed this article.

I asked Baggs point blank if he thought this was a case of Sabean just telling a story for his own PR purposes. Baggs said Sabean simply isn’t a guy who does that kind of stuff.

 

[TidrowThePitchingMaster]

FYI regarding Sabean and the Molina comment:

Baggs article spawned a typical, for them, 300+ post free-for-all at McCovey Chronicles.....

This post:



Had this response, which I think is relevant here:

Mccovey is quickly becoming a place that I try to avoid. I'm all for sabermetrics but half of the kids on there don't even know how to use them.

This is surprising from FLA-Giant- He does great work following the Giants farm system and giving his takes on some of our players. But yeah that comment was bad.