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The 6+6 plan & a 4+4 model compared

BamaDude

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According to various sources, there seems to be impetus for a 12-team playoff, with the 6 highest-ranked conference champions getting auto bids, with 6 more at-large teams added to the mix. I'm guessing the teams that get byes will be the 4 highest-ranked teams, regardless of conference affiliation. I would rather see a 4+ 4 format that doesn't involve needless bracket creep.

Here's a look at how each format would have worked over the past 7 playoffs:

2014 12-team

#8 Michigan St. 10-2 vs #9 Ole miss 9-3; winner plays #1 Alabama 12-1*
#20 Boise St. 11-2* vs #5 Baylor 11-1*^; winner plays #4 Ohio St. 12-1*
#6 TCU 11-1^ vs #11 Kansas St. 9-3; winner plays #3 Florida St. 13-0*
#10 Arizona 10-3 vs #7 Mississippi St. 11-2; winner plays #2 Oregon*

Field would include 3 SEC teams, 3 Big 12 teams, 2 Big 10 teams, 2 Pac-12 teams, 1 ACC team, 1 MWC team. #12 Georgia Tech (10-3) would have been bumped from the playoffs.

2014 8-team

#1 Alabama* vs #8 Michigan St.
#5 Baylor#^ vs #4 Ohio St.*
#3 Florida St.* vs #6 TCU^
#7 Mississippi St. vs #2 Oregon*

Field would include 2 SEC teams, 2 Big 10 teams, 2 Big 12 teams, 1 ACC team, 1 Pac-12 team; no G-5 teams.

^Note: Baylor & TCU tied for Big 12 title in 2014, but Baylor would have gotten the automatic bid due to a higher ranking.

2015 12-team

#8 Notre Dame 10-2 vs #9 Florida St. 10-2; winner plays #1 Clemson 13-0*
#18 Houston 12-1* vs #5 Iowa 12-1; winner plays #4 Oklahoma 11-1*
#6 Stanford 11-2* vs #11 TCU 10-2; winner plays #3 Michigan St. 12-1*
#10 North Carolina 11-2 vs #7 Ohio St.; winner plays #2 Alabama 12-1*

Field would include 3 ACC teams, 3 Big 10 teams, 2 Big 12 teams, 1 SEC team, 1 Pac-12 team, 1 AAC team, 1 independent. #12 Ole Miss (9-3) would have been bumped from the playoffs.

2015 8-team

#1 Clemson* vs #8 Notre Dame
#5 Iowa vs #4 Oklahoma*
#3 Michigan St.* vs Stanford#
#7 Ohio St. vs #2 Alabama*

Field would have included 3 Big 10 teams, 1 ACC team, 1 SEC team, 1 Big 12 team, 1 Pac-12 team, 1 independent; no G-5 teams.

2016 12-team

#8 Wisconsin 10-3 vs #9 USC 9-3; winner plays #1 Alabama 13-0*
#15 Western Michigan 13-0* vs #5 Penn St. 11-2*; winner plays #4 Washington 12-1*
#6 Michigan 10-2 vs #11 Florida St. 9-3; winner plays #3 Ohio St. 11-1
#10 Colorado 10-3 vs #7 Oklahoma 10-2*; winner plays #2 Clemson 12-1*

Field would include 4 Big 10 teams, 3 Pac-12 teams, 2 ACC teams, 1 SEC team, 1 Big 12 team, 1 MAC team. #12 Oklahoma St. (9-3) would have been bumped from the playoffs.

2016 8-team

#1 Alabama* vs #8 Wisconsin
#5 Penn St.* vs #4 Washington*
#3 Ohio St. vs #6 Michigan
#7 Oklahoma% vs #2 Clemson*

Field would include 4 Big 10 teams, plus 1 team each from the SEC, ACC, Pac-12 & Big 12. No G-5 teams would have been included.

2017 12-team

#8 USC 11-2* vs #9 Penn St. 10-2; winner plays #1 Clemson 12-1*
#12 Central Florida 12-0* vs #5 Ohio St. 11-2*; winner plays #4 Alabama 11-1
#6 Wisconsin 12-1 vs #11 Washington 10-2; winner plays #3 Georgia 12-1*
#10 Miami (FL) 10-2 vs #7 Auburn 10-3; winner plays #2 Oklahoma 12-1*

Field would include 3 SEC teams, 3 Big 10 teams, 2 ACC teams, 2 Pac-12 teams, 1 Big 12 team, 1 AAC teams. The entire Top 12 is represented.

2017 8-team

#1 Clemson* vs #8 USC*
#5 Ohio St.% vs #4 Alabama
#3 Georgia* vs #6 Wisconsin
#7 Auburn vs #2 Oklahoma*

Field includes 3 SEC teams, 2 Big 10 teams, 1 team each from the ACC, Big 12 & Pac-12. No G-5 teams.

2018 12-team

#8 Central Florida 12-0* vs #9 Washington 10-3*; winner plays #1 Alabama 13-0*
#12 Penn St. 9-3 vs #5 Georgia 11-2; winner plays #4 Oklahoma 12-1*
#6 Ohio St. 12-1* vs #11 LSU 9-3; winner plays #3 Notre Dame 12-0
#10 Florida 9-3 vs #7 Michigan 10-2; winner plays #2 Clemson 13-0*

Field includes 4 SEC teams, 3 Big 10 teams, 1 ACC team, 1 AAC team, 1 independent, 1 Big 12 team, 1 Pac-12 team. The entire Top 12 is represented.

2018 8-team

#1 Alabama* vs #8 Central Florida%
#5 Georgia vs #4 Oklahoma*
#3 Notre Dame vs #6 Ohio St.*
#7 Michigan vs #2 Clemson*

Participants include 2 teams each from the SEC & the Big 10, plus 1 team each from the ACC, Big 12, AAC & independents. The Pac-12 was not represented.

2019 12-team

#8 Wisconsin 10-3 vs Florida 10-2; winner plays #1 LSU 13-0*
#17 Memphis 12-1* vs #5 Georgia 11-2; winner plays #4 Oklahoma 12-1*
#6 Oregon 11-2* vs #11 Utah 11-2; winner plays #3 Clemson 13-0*
#10 Penn St. 10-2 vs #7 Baylor 11-2; winner plays #2 Ohio St. 13-0*

Field includes 3 teams each from the SEC & Big 10, 2 each from the Big 12 & Pac-12, 1 each from the ACC &AAC. #12 Auburn (9-3) was bumped from the playoffs.

2019 8-team

#1 LSU* vs #8 Wisconsin
#5 Georgia vs #4 Oklahoma*
#3 Clemson* vs #6 Oregon%
#7 Baylor vs #2 Ohio St.*

Field includes 2 teams each from the SEC, Big 10 & Big 12, 1 team each from the ACC & Pac-12. No G-5 teams qualified.

2020 12-team

#8 Cincinnati 9-0* vs #9 Georgia 7-2; winner plays #1 Alabama 11-0*
#12 Coastal Carolina 11-0* vs Texas A&M 8-1; winner plays Notre Dame
#6 Oklahoma 8-2* vs #11 Indiana 6-1; winner plays #3 Ohio St. 6-0*
#10 Iowa St. 8-3 vs #7 Florida 8-3; winner plays #2 Clemson 10-1*

Field includes 4 teams from the SEC, 2 from the ACC, 2 from the Big 10, 2 from the Big 12, 1 from the AAC, 1 from the SBC. The Pac-12 failed to qualify.

2020 8-team

#1 Alabama* vs #8 Cincinnati%
#5 Texas A&M vs #4 Notre Dame
#3 Ohio St.* vs #6 Oklahoma*
#7 Florida vs #2 Clemson*

Filed includes 3 teams from the SEC, 2 teams from the ACC, 1 each from Big 10, Big 12 & AAC. The Pac-12 failed to qualify.

Notes: * indicates a Top 6 conference champion in the 12-team playoffs or a Top 4 conference champion in the 8-team version (these are automatic qualifiers).
% indicates a conference champion that was not an automatic qualifier.
 

PhilSimms11

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This all radickless. Farr (4) is jus' rott. T'ain't be needin' ate (8). T'ain't be needin' tway'elv (12). Dang ole regler seezin gots to meen sumpin'. This dang ole makin' it ever boddy get a trophy man...shoot. S'all 'bout the green.

Translation (so you don't get lost) ;) See what I did there? There was this movie...Bill Murray...anyway:

This is ridiculous. Four is just right. We don't need 8. We don't need 12. The regular season must mean something. This makes it to where many undeserving teams receive a participation trophy...shit. It's all about money.
 

NolePride

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This all radickless. Farr (4) is jus' rott. T'ain't be needin' ate (8). T'ain't be needin' tway'elv (12). Dang ole regler seezin gots to meen sumpin'. This dang ole makin' it ever boddy get a trophy man...shoot. S'all 'bout the green.

Translation (so you don't get lost) ;) See what I did there? There was this movie...Bill Murray...anyway:

This is ridiculous. Four is just right. We don't need 8. We don't need 12. The regular season must mean something. This makes it to where many undeserving teams receive a participation trophy...shit. It's all about money.
I'm gonna disagree a bit with you on semantics.

It's more about prestige and recruiting for an entire league, than just money. There also has to be some grumbling
going on behind closed doors, that just hasn't surfaced yet. Why would they even consider any change, with the
success they've enjoyed so far. The grumbling has to be coming from the mid-majors and some of the havenots
of Power5.

The mid-majors certainly want the NCAA to control this, not the Big10,SEC,Big12,Pac12. (They are bias.)
They say the "proper things" such as..."No League will get an automatic Conf Champ selected!" But how do they
select teams. They select via a committee, that those four leagues have selected. Where's the fairness in that?

The Power 5 leagues hired an outside firm last year, to decide their best course of action. That committee told them
to withdraw from the NCAA and play among themselves. Those leagues will have members that dom't want that to
happen, bcause of their basketball and spring sports programs. But the NCAA won't have a committee for a playoff
if they are in charge, they will take all the FBS conf champs. That would destroy the recruiting of the Power5 have not
teams. Destroy them. If a solid three-stae wanted a chance to play in the playoffs, he would have a better chance
if he went to Appy State instead of Kentucky. A better chance if he went to Western Mich instead of Ill. A better
chance if he went to Louisiana instead of Baylor, a better chance if he went to Boise instead of Wash. State.

If they split from the NCAA the Power5 won't even need a playoff. With just 65 teams, playing each other, year in
and year out, the Best team would be known during the regular season. All the wins from the MWC, The MAC,
The Sun Belt, etc, would be gone from their records. If you have a top 20, the 20th team would have 5 losses.

That they are even considering a change in their playoffs is proof enough that more than 65 teams are bitching
and may not vote in favor of continuing when the contract expires in 4 or 5 years.

This has become to uneven and teams are gonna complain about a level playing field. They know they must do
something and they must do it soon.
 

PhilSimms11

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I'm gonna disagree a bit with you on semantics.

It's more about prestige and recruiting for an entire league, than just money. There also has to be some grumbling
going on behind closed doors, that just hasn't surfaced yet. Why would they even consider any change, with the
success they've enjoyed so far. The grumbling has to be coming from the mid-majors and some of the havenots
of Power5.

The mid-majors certainly want the NCAA to control this, not the Big10,SEC,Big12,Pac12. (They are bias.)
They say the "proper things" such as..."No League will get an automatic Conf Champ selected!" But how do they
select teams. They select via a committee, that those four leagues have selected. Where's the fairness in that?

The Power 5 leagues hired an outside firm last year, to decide their best course of action. That committee told them
to withdraw from the NCAA and play among themselves. Those leagues will have members that dom't want that to
happen, bcause of their basketball and spring sports programs. But the NCAA won't have a committee for a playoff
if they are in charge, they will take all the FBS conf champs. That would destroy the recruiting of the Power5 have not
teams. Destroy them. If a solid three-stae wanted a chance to play in the playoffs, he would have a better chance
if he went to Appy State instead of Kentucky. A better chance if he went to Western Mich instead of Ill. A better
chance if he went to Louisiana instead of Baylor, a better chance if he went to Boise instead of Wash. State.

If they split from the NCAA the Power5 won't even need a playoff. With just 65 teams, playing each other, year in
and year out, the Best team would be known during the regular season. All the wins from the MWC, The MAC,
The Sun Belt, etc, would be gone from their records. If you have a top 20, the 20th team would have 5 losses.

That they are even considering a change in their playoffs is proof enough that more than 65 teams are bitching
and may not vote in favor of continuing when the contract expires in 4 or 5 years.

This has become to uneven and teams are gonna complain about a level playing field. They know they must do
something and they must do it soon.
That's why I want an 8-team Power-5 playoff and an 8-team group of 5 playoff. I think it's time to split them into two. That's what I-AA (FCS) did in 1978. It's working just fine.
 

wazzu31

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So winning an upset in a CCG means nothing?
 

WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE

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The top 4 highest ranked conference champions would get the first round bye. Notre Dame wouldn't be eligible for a first round bye, nor would any independent team or at-large team.

As far as I can see, the majority of playoff spots should be filled by conference champions. You do 8 team, at least 5 conference champions. You do 12 teams, at least 7 conference champions. My only complaint revolves around the concept of teams playing 17 games in a season.
 

BamaDude

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So winning an upset in a CCG means nothing?
Not unless it boosts you into the top four. And a 9-3 or 8-4 team winning a CCG shouldn't be a top 4 team. And in most cases, neither should a 10-2 team.
 

NolePride

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Not unless it boosts you into the top four. And a 9-3 or 8-4 team winning a CCG shouldn't be a top 4 team. And in most cases, neither should a 10-2 team.
I think I'll disagree. Who is to say, that a 12-0 team from one league is better than a 9-3 team from a more competitive league?

When you pick only conf champs, the quest for a NC becomes "objective" when committee's start selecting at-large teams, it
can get very subjective.

Selecting on Conf Champs...Does not guarantee the top two teams playing for the NC, but that is not what we are
searching for. We are trying to find the true number one, on the field of play. Number two could very easily be the
2nd place team from a Conf, but that can always be debated. Finding the real number one is the quest.
 

Blackshirts BLVD

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I will never support a format that offers byes.
 

wazzu31

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Not unless it boosts you into the top four. And a 9-3 or 8-4 team winning a CCG shouldn't be a top 4 team. And in most cases, neither should a 10-2 team.
Then it isn’t a legitimate model because it makes a CCG pointless. Advertisers and tv execs are going to push for a 16 team playoff before agreeing to turn CCG’s into a glorified scrimmage of 2nd stringers.
 

HuskerOC

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Solid.

You've just made the last 2 weeks and Conference Championship games into a Week 17 of the NFL.

Congrats. We'll surely find the most deserving champion whit this shitshow.
 

BamaDude

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I'm gonna disagree a bit with you on semantics.
Semantics, shemantics. You're disagreeing on way more than that!
The mid-majors certainly want the NCAA to control this, not the Big10,SEC,Big12,Pac12. (They are bias.)
They say the "proper things" such as..."No League will get an automatic Conf Champ selected!" But how do they
select teams. They select via a committee, that those four leagues have selected. Where's the fairness in that?
It seems that you conveniently forgot that the ACC (and Notre Dame) was a part of that cabal.
The Power 5 leagues hired an outside firm last year, to decide their best course of action. That committee told them
to withdraw from the NCAA and play among themselves. Those leagues will have members that dom't want that to
happen, bcause of their basketball and spring sports programs. But the NCAA won't have a committee for a playoff
if they are in charge, they will take all the FBS conf champs. That would destroy the recruiting of the Power5 have not
teams. Destroy them. If a solid three-stae wanted a chance to play in the playoffs, he would have a better chance
if he went to Appy State instead of Kentucky. A better chance if he went to Western Mich instead of Ill. A better
chance if he went to Louisiana instead of Baylor, a better chance if he went to Boise instead of Wash. State.
There's really no telling how the NCAA itself might handle an FBS playoff; but its out of their hands, so your point is moot.
 

cwerph

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Any scenario that includes the Vagerines is fatally flawed.
 

fredsdeadfriend

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Then it isn’t a legitimate model because it makes a CCG pointless. Advertisers and tv execs are going to push for a 16 team playoff before agreeing to turn CCG’s into a glorified scrimmage of 2nd stringers.
They'll never go to a 16 team playoff, not as long as there are Conf Championship games as those are akin to an opening round of a larger tournament. A 12 team tourney? Better chance of this than a 16 team tourney, but I still think 8 is the largest it will go to, which with Conf Title games makes it basically a 16 team tourney, but then the probably arises that there'd be too many undeserving teams in the tourney just because they won some piddly conf. So the favored idea would be the P5 conf Champs and 3 others. But the fact that the G5 conferences will, for the most part, continue to get neglected, even in an expanded tourney field, will continue to mean too many unhappy people out there. The Top 4 or 5 conferences breaking off on their own might be the best solution?

This could get ugly though, as 4 is a nicer rounder number than 5, so which conference gets left out of the mix? Sure wouldn't be the SEC or the B1G. So the Pac, the ACC and the Big 12, imo, one of those will end up losing out. But if all 5 do what's needed to survive, going with the 5 Conf Champs and 3 extras would still be an option, just got to figure out how to break off from the G5 conferences.
 

Ron G

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The top 4 highest ranked conference champions would get the first round bye. Notre Dame wouldn't be eligible for a first round bye, nor would any independent team or at-large team.

As far as I can see, the majority of playoff spots should be filled by conference champions. You do 8 team, at least 5 conference champions. You do 12 teams, at least 7 conference champions. My only complaint revolves around the concept of teams playing 17 games in a season.
Why would ND not be eligible for a bye? The usual answer is they don't play a CCG and only play 12 games. But virtually every Power 5 conference team plays an FCS team and counts that as a legitimate win. Notre Dame and very few others choose not to play any FCS teams.
I am not an Ohio State fan by any means, but if they play an FCS (Mercer?) instead of Oregon they are undefeated now. Same for ND if they played Eastern Illinois instead of Cincinnati. Any games played by FBS teams against FCS teams should only count if it is a loss as a win is basically irrelevant.
 

fredsdeadfriend

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Why would ND not be eligible for a bye? The usual answer is they don't play a CCG and only play 12 games. But virtually every Power 5 conference team plays an FCS team and counts that as a legitimate win. Notre Dame and very few others choose not to play any FCS teams.
I am not an Ohio State fan by any means, but if they play an FCS (Mercer?) instead of Oregon they are undefeated now. Same for ND if they played Eastern Illinois instead of Cincinnati. Any games played by FBS teams against FCS teams should only count if it is a loss as a win is basically irrelevant.
Why don't you try scheduling NDSU? They agreed to play Oregon, but Oregon got lucky and covid spared them. I'm sure they'd love to play NDm. The top 5-10 FCS teams are probably better than the bottom 30-40 FBS teams.
 

Ron G

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Why don't you try scheduling NDSU? They agreed to play Oregon, but Oregon got lucky and covid spared them. I'm sure they'd love to play NDm. The top 5-10 FCS teams are probably better than the bottom 30-40 FBS teams.
Because they are an FCS team. They may be the best of the FCS but they are still that and beating them in reality means nothing to an FBS team. A corollary question would be "why doesn't North Dakota State join the FBS"? Here's another question, why doesn't Alabama schedule them in stead of Mercer or The Citadel?
 

fredsdeadfriend

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Because they are an FCS team. They may be the best of the FCS but they are still that and beating them in reality means nothing to an FBS team. A corollary question would be "why doesn't North Dakota State join the FBS"? Here's another question, why doesn't Alabama schedule them in stead of Mercer or The Citadel?
Well, it's obvious. Iowa tried scheduling them, Iowa was ranked pretty high that year and NDSU beat them. Oregon was dumb enough to schedule them and got lucky the game never happened. There is absolutely nothing to gain from playing them, and everything to lose.

Not sure why NDSU doesn't move up to FBS? I'd guess the MWC would welcome them. Possibly because being the Biggest fish in a big pond is better than being a little fish in a big lake?! I'm sure they pack their stadium every week. Not sure that would happen if they start going 5-7 or even 7-5 vs 11 FBS schools and one FCS rival game maybe?

As for Bama? Well, they schedule Mercer as a warm up game I suppose, and being challenged by a legit team would defeat the purpose. Not saying NDSU would beat Bama, but they'd make them keep their starters in past half time, they might make them work up a sweat.
 

WNY_FOOTBALL_DUDE

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Why would ND not be eligible for a bye? The usual answer is they don't play a CCG and only play 12 games. But virtually every Power 5 conference team plays an FCS team and counts that as a legitimate win. Notre Dame and very few others choose not to play any FCS teams.
I am not an Ohio State fan by any means, but if they play an FCS (Mercer?) instead of Oregon they are undefeated now. Same for ND if they played Eastern Illinois instead of Cincinnati. Any games played by FBS teams against FCS teams should only count if it is a loss as a win is basically irrelevant.
I understand your point and I agree with it. Notre Dame always "over-schedules". It is just what the college football big wigs want to see: the top 4 conference champions get the top 4 spots, much like the NFL's seeding system. I guess they want to avoid scenarios like with Alabama (2012, 2017) or Ohio State in 2016.
 

Ron G

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Well, it's obvious. Iowa tried scheduling them, Iowa was ranked pretty high that year and NDSU beat them. Oregon was dumb enough to schedule them and got lucky the game never happened. There is absolutely nothing to gain from playing them, and everything to lose.

Not sure why NDSU doesn't move up to FBS? I'd guess the MWC would welcome them. Possibly because being the Biggest fish in a big pond is better than being a little fish in a big lake?! I'm sure they pack their stadium every week. Not sure that would happen if they start going 5-7 or even 7-5 vs 11 FBS schools and one FCS rival game maybe?

As for Bama? Well, they schedule Mercer as a warm up game I suppose, and being challenged by a legit team would defeat the purpose. Not saying NDSU would beat Bama, but they'd make them keep their starters in past half time, they might make them work up a sweat.
I agree but when any FBS team goes 12-1, I don't see that as any better then a 12-1 or 11-1 FBS that does not have and FCS on the schedule.
 
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