Solving the new NBA's problems

[jontaejones]

Because it would have been so much worse for basketball if the Pistons dominated the 90s instead of the Bulls?

Well, like I said, if as a sports fan you'd have been OK with something like that happening, then it is what it is.

 

[flyerhawk]

Well, like I said, if as a sports fan you'd have been OK with something like that happening, then it is what it is.

Well being neither a Pistons fan or a Bulls fan, it doesn't much matter to me which one of them dominated in the 90s.

 

[jontaejones]

Well being neither a Pistons fan or a Bulls fan, it doesn't much matter to me which one of them dominated in the 90s.

I do get the point you're trying to make.

Regardless, the NBA is the worst sport to be going through this sort of thing.

In the NFL, MLB, and NHL and college football and basketball, teams can assemble superteams all they want and they can still get beat because of the nature of the game or a single elimination playoff.

Hopefully, the new wave of NBA stars won't be a bunch of pansies. Joel Embiid talking shit to other players. Gotta love that.

 

[trojanfan12]

Fans root for underdogs when their team is out of it. I guess it's also true for casual fans who don't have a team. I have never heard of fans who want their great team to break up so that it is harder to win. This might be surprising to you, but fans want what is best for their team.

Exactly. I never wanted the Showtime Lakers to break up. I wanted that to go on forever. Same with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, etc.

I want my teams to win the title every year. It's not my or my favorite teams responsibility to "level the playing field" so other teams have a chance.

It's those other teams responsibility to level the playing field by getting better themselves.

 

[jontaejones]

Exactly. I never wanted the Showtime Lakers to break up. I wanted that to go on forever. Same with the Shaq/Kobe Lakers, etc.

I want my teams to win the title every year. It's not my or my favorite teams responsibility to "level the playing field" so other teams have a chance.

It's those other teams responsibility to level the playing field by getting better themselves.

Yes, but everybody knows that fans who want their team to win 11 titles in a row exist. Why do you think the Lakers and Yankees have such big fan bases?

But other fans exist too.

Part of the charm of being a Clippers fan, for instance, is that you're kind of rooting for the underdog. If the Clippers won 8 titles in a row, well then, that charm is gone.

If Gonzaga becomes Duke and starts winning title after title by 20 point margins, then part of the charm of being a Gonzaga fan is gone.

If you can't see it, you can't see it. But it exists and it's prevalent.

 

[trojanfan12]

Regardless, the NBA is the worst sport to be going through this sort of thing.

How so? The NBA has always had 3-4 teams that have a shot and then there's everybody else.

There have always been superteams as well.

Virtually every decade has a "Warriors" type team that seemed to have the title on lockdown.

In the 50's...it was the Minneapolis Lakers.

In the 60's...it was the Celtics.

The 70's was a little more equal.

In the 80's...it was the Lakers and Celtics, from 1980 to 1989, every finals had either the Lakers or Celtics as one of the teams and one or the other won it 8 times.

The 90's had MJ's Bulls.

And so on...

Don't understand why people think this is something new.

 

[flyerhawk]

How so? The NBA has always had 3-4 teams that have a shot and then there's everybody else.

There have always been superteams as well.

Virtually every decade has a "Warriors" type team that seemed to have the title on lockdown.

In the 50's...it was the Minneapolis Lakers.

In the 60's...it was the Celtics.

The 70's was a little more equal.

In the 80's...it was the Lakers and Celtics, from 1980 to 1989, every finals had either the Lakers or Celtics as one of the teams and one or the other won it 8 times.

The 90's had MJ's Bulls.

And so on...

Don't understand why people think this is something new.

What's funny is that many people view the 70s as the dark years of the NBA.

 

[trojanfan12]

Yes, but everybody knows that fans who want their team to win 11 titles in a row exist. Why do you think the Lakers and Yankees have such big fan bases?

But other fans exist too.

Part of the charm of being a Clippers fan, for instance, is that you're kind of rooting for the underdog. If the Clippers won 8 titles in a row, well then, that charm is gone.

If Gonzaga becomes Duke and starts winning title after title by 20 point margins, then part of the charm of a Gonzaga fan is gone.

If you can't see it, you can't see it. But it exists and it's prevalent.

And?

Everyone loves the underdog, but no one really wants to be the underdog. At least not for very long. I remember when the Lakers had Kobe and some riff raff and were big underdogs to the Suns in the playoffs and almost beat them. That was a lot of fun.

But you know what was more fun? A couple of seasons before that when the Shaq/Kobe Lakers were winning 3 straight titles and a couple of years after when the Kobe/Pau Lakers won back to back titles.

Again, it's not the responsibility of my favorite team or it's fanbase to worry about other teams and their fanbase.

If a fan doesn't like what their favorite team is doing, it's up to them to put pressure on their team to get better. Not to expect other teams to let players go or not sign good players or expect the league to stop transactions because "it's not fair".

You want to know why teams like the Lakers (except recently lol) have won as many titles as they have and almost always seem to be in the mix?

Because their fans demand it. The Lakers know that if they aren't contenders, they better be working on being contenders or fans will revolt (usually by withholding their money).

 

[trojanfan12]

What's funny is that many people view the 70s as the dark years of the NBA.

Agree. It was kind of a weird time in the league. There were no "villains." The ABA was considered a fairly serious threat and the league was basically looking at being a niche sport at best.

 

[jontaejones]

And?

Everyone loves the underdog, but no one really wants to be the underdog. At least not for very long. I remember when the Lakers had Kobe and some riff raff and were big underdogs to the Suns in the playoffs and almost beat them. That was a lot of fun.

But you know what was more fun? A couple of seasons before that when the Shaq/Kobe Lakers were winning 3 straight titles and a couple of years after when the Kobe/Pau Lakers won back to back titles.

Again, it's not the responsibility of my favorite team or it's fanbase to worry about other teams and their fanbase.

If a fan doesn't like what their favorite team is doing, it's up to them to put pressure on their team to get better. Not to expect other teams to let players go or not sign good players or expect the league to stop transactions because "it's not fair".

You want to know why teams like the Lakers (except recently lol) have won as many titles as they have and almost always seem to be in the mix?

Because their fans demand it. The Lakers know that if they aren't contenders, they better be working on being contenders or fans will revolt (usually by withholding their money).

So what's your point?

You're saying one kind of fan exists and I'm saying another kind of fan exists.

No fan wants their team to be a cellar dweller. But there are fans who would rather not see their team win 10 titles in a row. They might not come out and say it in a bar full of fans, but for sure...

If I wanted that, then I'd be a Lakers fan. I grew up in the era of Magic and Kareem.

 

[WiggyRuss]

How so? The NBA has always had 3-4 teams that have a shot and then there's everybody else.

There have always been superteams as well.

Virtually every decade has a "Warriors" type team that seemed to have the title on lockdown.

In the 50's...it was the Minneapolis Lakers.

In the 60's...it was the Celtics.

The 70's was a little more equal.

In the 80's...it was the Lakers and Celtics, from 1980 to 1989, every finals had either the Lakers or Celtics as one of the teams and one or the other won it 8 times.

The 90's had MJ's Bulls.

And so on...

Don't understand why people think this is something new.

do not understand why this is something new huh?

2 teams had NEVER in the history of the NBA ever faced eachother 3 times a row in the Finals.

The Cavs and Warriors just met eacother 4 times in a row in the Finals.

before the season has started each of the last 3 years, there have been MAYBE a total of, what? 6 teams that could win the title combined? The Warriors 3 times, the Cavs twice? and the Rockets this last year?

when was the last time a team made it to 5 straight NBA Finals which is practically guaranteed of the Warriors?

In 5 straight years we will see a TOTAL of 3 different teams make the Finals.

 

[WiggyRuss]

So what's your point?

You're saying one kind of fan exists and I'm saying another kind of fan exists.

No fan wants their team to be a cellar dweller. But there are fans who would rather not see their team win 10 titles in a row. They might not come out and say it, but for sure...

If I wanted that, then I'd be a Lakers fan. I grew up in the era of Magic and Kareem.

its not good for the game that it is July 4th and everyone knows who is going to win the title next year.

 

[trojanfan12]

So what's your point?

You're saying one kind of fan exists and I'm saying another kind of fan exists.

No. I'm saying that as a Lakers fan, it's not my responsibility to worry about you or your favorite team and it's not my favorite teams responsibility to help your team get better.

There are all kinds of fans from diehard to bandwagon to people who are fans of certain players.

But no fan, of any kind, should be expecting another team to not sign certain players or not try to get better every year (even if they're already the champs) or expect the league to step in and help them out.

 

[flyerhawk]

In 5 straight years we will see a TOTAL of 3 different teams make the Finals.

The Lakers and Celtics won 8 of 9 championships in the 1980s.

The Cavs making the finals 4 years in a row is more of a symptom of the East being abnormally weak over that span.

The Warriors are arguably the greatest team in the history of the NBA.

 

[trojanfan12]

do not understand why this is something new huh?

2 teams had NEVER in the history of the NBA ever faced eachother 3 times a row in the Finals.

Not 3 in a row, but 4 out 5 has happened. 2 out of 3, 3 out 4, etc.

before the season has started each of the last 3 years, there have been MAYBE a total of, what? 6 teams that could win the title combined? The Warriors 3 times, the Cavs twice? and the Rockets this last year?

In the 80's, there were 3, maybe 4 teams with a real chance for pretty much the entire decade.

when was the last time a team made it to 5 straight NBA Finals which is practically guaranteed of the Warriors?

In the 60's, the Celtics made 10 straight finals and won 8 in a row. In those 10 trips, they faced the Lakers 7 times.

From 1980 to 1991, the Lakers made it to the finals 9 times.

In the 90's, the Bulls made it and won 3 times in a row twice and most seem to think they'd have made it and won 8 times in a row had MJ not "retired."

In 5 straight years we will see a TOTAL of 3 different teams make the Finals

From 1980-1987 we saw a total of 4 different teams make the finals.

So no, it's not new.

 

[jontaejones]

No. I'm saying that as a Lakers fan, it's not my responsibility to worry about you or your favorite team and it's not my favorite teams responsibility to help your team get better.

There are all kinds of fans from diehard to bandwagon to people who are fans of certain players.

But no fan, of any kind, should be expecting another team to not sign certain players or not try to get better every year (even if they're already the champs) or expect the league to step in and help them out.

I didn't say it was your responsibility for anything.

I just said different kind of fans exist. People are coming out and telling me no fan would not want this team to win 10 titles in a row. And yes, there are...

 

[jontaejones]

Then think about why the Warriors have Durant. It’s because we LOST in the finals. For as good as the team was, it was flawed. We sought to get better, as every team does and ended up in the perfect storm of a cap spike and having young stars locked up on team friendly deals.

My opinion is that Durant would have joined the Warriors whether they won or lost.

What difference would it have made to Durant? And the Warriors front office has no qualms about adding All-Star players when they're already champions ... not that it should.

Really, the Warriors should have 4 titles in a row.

 

[WiggyRuss]

Not 3 in a row, but 4 out 5 has happened. 2 out of 3, 3 out 4, etc.



In the 80's, there were 3, maybe 4 teams with a real chance for pretty much the entire decade.



In the 60's, the Celtics made 10 straight finals and won 8 in a row. In those 10 trips, they faced the Lakers 7 times.

From 1980 to 1991, the Lakers made it to the finals 9 times.

In the 90's, the Bulls made it and won 3 times in a row twice and most seem to think they'd have made it and won 8 times in a row had MJ not "retired."



From 1980-1987 we saw a total of 4 different teams make the finals.

So no, it's not new.

the 60's? lol....in the 60's there were how many teams? And anyway- i am a browns fan- if ia start talking about their championships in the 60's, MORE THAN 50 years i ago- i start looking like a real asshole.

This year the only 2 teams that had any kind of real chance over 5% to win the Finals were the Rockets and Warriors

Last year the only 2 teams that had any kind of chance to win were the Warriors and Cavs

the year before the only 2 teams that had any real chance of winning were the Warriors and the Cavs..............thats 6 teams over 3 years. That has never happened before.

nexct year the only team with a real chance ot win the Finals is the Warriors.

over a 4 year stretch- you have the Warriors- the 17/18 Rockets and the 16/17 Cavs and the 15-16 Cavs as the only teams that could have won a title.

In a league with 30 teams that is just crazy.

While there are some comparisons- and some that go WAY back to irrelevance and a totally different league- there is nothing that has compared to right now.



Has the NBA ever known on July 4th who will win the title the following year? I dont think so.

 

[WiggyRuss]

I mean if Kevin Durant breaks his leg the Warriors are still humongous favorites.

 

[WiggyRuss]

No. I'm saying that as a Lakers fan, it's not my responsibility to worry about you or your favorite team and it's not my favorite teams responsibility to help your team get better.

There are all kinds of fans from diehard to bandwagon to people who are fans of certain players.

But no fan, of any kind, should be expecting another team to not sign certain players or not try to get better every year (even if they're already the champs) or expect the league to step in and help them out.

I totally agree with that--- you cannot blame the Warriors one bit- they are just operating within the system- however with these results its clear that something in the system is not operating correctly.