So let's say Wisconsin wins the Big 10 Championship

[The Oldtimer]

How is it a good example?

Regardless of the H2H, Bama still won their Division & the SEC Conference Championship before being selected to the final four.

Just like the Cowboys example given earlier, the Division winner is the trump card not the H2H and still Penn State has both.

I personally don't have a huge problem with teams who don't win their Conference getting into the Final Four, but if you're the third best team in your Conference (aka the first Division Runner-Up) then how can you possibly be the fourth best team in the Nation?

First things first, WIN YOUR DIVISION, then start talking about your place in the National standings otherwise....

Yeah I totally agree, but I'm not too sure the playoff committee will agree with you.

 

[Vitamike]

Yeah I totally agree, but I'm not too sure the playoff committee will agree with you.

I'm not sure either, but I totally agree with the sentiment that's been mentioned on this thread prior, if the CCG's don't count for anything than why are Conferences playing them?

IMO the consensus is tOSU had a better chance of making the final four by ducking the CCG than playing in it, and that's not right.

That should never be right.

WIN YOUR DIVISION and let the chips fall where they may!

 

[gpm1976]

I'm not sure either, but I totally agree with the sentiment that's been mentioned on this thread prior, if the CCG's don't count for anything than why are Conferences playing them?

IMO the consensus is tOSU had a better chance of making the final four by ducking the CCG than playing in it, and that's not right.

That should never be right.

WIN YOUR DIVISION and let the chips fall where they may!

You slip up in one quarter of football on the road and you're done... that's it.. end of season? Any other year, that one loss doesn't mean much, but the way the cards fell, PSU wins the division. Is it fair that Wisconsin plays both Michigan and OSU, but Iowa only plays Michigan.. and neither team is even in your division yet effect your standing. College football is what it is, it was never designed to be as exact as we all want it to be.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Did Ohio State miss out on the CCG last year because they happened to lose to the only other 1-loss team in the division or not? Did that happen this year?

The point is that they could have lost to just about anyone else on their schedule, even in conference and gotten to the CCG. They happened to lose to the wrong opponent both years. Similarly, if Ole Miss wouldn't have lost to Arkansas in OT last year, they would have gone to the SEC CCG ahead of Alabama, despite having 2 losses to Alabama's 1. I think it's safe to say that Ole Miss wasn't a better team than Bama was last year.

What part of this are you guys having issues understanding?

You could say the CCG is what put OSU in over Baylor or TCU the year before tho. In the end they Ohio State is not the best team in their conference.Either Wisconsin or Benn State will also have 11 wins.They both earned the right to play in a CCG. And that H2H plays an even bigger role should PSU win. I can see the Wisconsin argument to a point. But I cant see a valid argument against Penn State getting in over OSU if it plays out that way.

 

[Across The Field]

@Vitamike is making a lot of very good points in regards to the topic. The play offs are supposed to be the best 4 teams. That entails total body of work. OOC strength of schedule is one factor. But not every team can schedule an "elite" team. Nor do they know how that teams season will unfold.

Conference games are of high importance. How can one say they are one of the 4 best teams in the country.When they did not win.Their division or conference title. Or that they are better than a team that beat them H2H and won their division and conference. CCG's are just as important if not more important in regards to SOS. Because teams have to earn the right to play that game.

By devaluing conference championships you are also potentially opening another can of worms. In regards to teams backing into the play offs. Creating the potential for a team to lose a game and bypass a CCG where they have nothing to gain. Let the teams decide who is the best on the field. The results on the field are the reason teams are in the CCG. Which makes them the better team imo

I'm not trying to say the CCG isn't important, but they don't always tell the story - this year in the B1G is a great indicator.

Last year's Bama/Ole Miss scenario is a perfect example. It was very clear that Bama was one of the 4 best teams, but if not for the absurd Arky 4th and 25 conversion against Ole Miss (which Bama had no effect on), Bama would've been exactly where OSU is this year, except I don't think they had as good of a resume.

OSU is 11-1 with a loss in which they dominated every aspect of but the final score. Otherwise, they have 3 wins over top 7 teams (one a road blowout), along with another blowout top 25 win. Not only that, but they've been elite nationally on both offense and defense. That is the resume of a top 4 team if I've ever seen one.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

I'm not sure either, but I totally agree with the sentiment that's been mentioned on this thread prior, if the CCG's don't count for anything than why are Conferences playing them?

IMO the consensus is tOSU had a better chance of making the final four by ducking the CCG than playing in it, and that's not right.

That should never be right.

WIN YOUR DIVISION and let the chips fall where they may!

Thats the other area I give the edge to Wisconsin and Penn State. Ohio State is in a better position by not playing in the CCG. They have more to lose by playing. The risk of losing to Wisconsin who played them very tight. Is far higher than sitting back and debating. I agree put it on the field. Win your division and conference

 

[Across The Field]

You could say the CCG is what put OSU in over Baylor or TCU the year before tho. In the end they Ohio State is not the best team in their conference.Either Wisconsin or Benn State will also have 11 wins.They both earned the right to play in a CCG. And that H2H plays an even bigger role should PSU win. I can see the Wisconsin argument to a point. But I cant see a valid argument against Penn State getting in over OSU if it plays out that way.

It was a resounding 59 point win against fringe top 10 team, and they also had the same amount of losses as Baylor and TCU with a better resume. All of that put together is what got them in.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

I'm not trying to say the CCG isn't important, but they don't always tell the story - this year in the B1G is a great indicator.

Last year's Bama/Ole Miss scenario is a perfect example. It was very clear that Bama was one of the 4 best teams, but if not for the absurd Arky 4th and 25 conversion against Ole Miss (which Bama had no effect on), Bama would've been exactly where OSU is this year, except I don't think they had as good of a resume.

OSU is 11-1 with a loss in which they dominated every aspect of but the final score. Otherwise, they have 3 wins over top 7 teams (one a road blowout), along with another blowout top 25 win. Not only that, but they've been elite nationally on both offense and defense. That is the resume of a top 4 team if I've ever seen one.

Penn State is in the CCG because of a head to head victory over Ohio State. As well as their over all performance in the same division and conference

 

[TheRobotDevil]

It was a resounding 59 point win against fringe top 10 team, and they also had the same amount of losses as Baylor and TCU with a better resume. All of that put together is what got them in.

It was the CCG and conference championship that put OSU in. If we are going to compare last season. It is just as fair to compare the season prior as well.

 

[Across The Field]

Penn State is in the CCG because of a head to head victory over Ohio State. As well as their over all performance in the same division and conference

Actually it was the Iowa upset win over michigan that put Penn State into the CCG. I have an extremely hard time believing they'd be 11-1 if they had to face both Oklahoma and Wisconsin on the road at night like OSU did. They statistically don't come close to stacking up to OSU and they didn't face as tough of a schedule.

 

[Across The Field]

It was the CCG and conference championship that put OSU in. If we are going to compare last season. It is just as fair to compare the season prior as well.

Baylor and TCU's combined resumes in 2014 weren't as good as Ohio State's is this year.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Baylor and TCU's combined resumes in 2014 weren't as good as Ohio State's is this year.

Im not comparing them to Ohio State as a team. I'm comparing scenarios and the situations. You could say they were comparable that year. But unlike Ohio State that year. The did not win their conference outright. And have the extra game and win or conference championship. Penn State and Wisconsin earned that right this season.

 

[TheRobotDevil]

Actually it was the Iowa upset win over michigan that put Penn State into the CCG. I have an extremely hard time believing they'd be 11-1 if they had to face both Oklahoma and Wisconsin on the road at night like OSU did. They statistically don't come close to stacking up to OSU and they didn't face as tough of a schedule.

Penn State beat the same Iowa team that beat Michigan.If Ohio State beats Penn State we aren't having this discussion. It was what Penn State did as a whole that won them the B1G X East. The Iowa loss played a role in Michigan losing the division........

 

[Across The Field]

Im not comparing them to Ohio State as a team. I'm comparing scenarios and the situations. You could say they were comparable that year. But unlike Ohio State that year. The did not win their conference outright. And have the extra game and win or conference championship. Penn State and Wisconsin earned that right this season.

Wisconsin didn't "earn" anything. They got lucky to be placed in the weaker division. If either OSU or michigan was in the West, they'd be playing in the CCG. That has nothing to do with how good the teams are, it's completely arbitrary.

Also, the scenarios aren't he same for the reasons I'm bringing up - OSU got in that year because they beat the everloving shit out of a good Wisconsin team and also had a 2-score road win over top 10 Michigan State. Ohio State had more ranked wins than both Baylor and TCU combined that year. It was an easy choice seeing them win 59-0 over Wisconsin. Maybe PSU beats Wisconsin 59-0 this Saturday and then they won't have to worry about it. I'm willing to bet any amount of money that doesn't happen, or anything close to it.

 

[Across The Field]

Penn State beat the same Iowa team that beat Michigan.If Ohio State beats Penn State we aren't having this discussion. It was what Penn State did as a whole that won them the B1G X East. The Iowa loss played a role in Michigan losing the division........

OSU-PSU-michigan did a round robin; only PSU was demolished.

OSU-PSU-michigan compared statistically; OSU and michigan are nationally elite on both sides of the ball while PSU is not by any metric, despite playing the weakest schedule of the 3.

OSU has 1 loss, PSU has 2. OSU already has a win on the road at Wisconsin, so why does PSU get more credit for beating them on a neutral field?

If the idea is to put the 4 best teams into the playoff, Ohio State is in. Like I said - put them in the B1G West and they get to play this Saturday. However, Wisconsin (sitting at 4th overall in the B1G) gets to play. How is that fair in your mind?

 

[The Oldtimer]

You slip up in one quarter of football on the road and you're done... that's it.. end of season? Any other year, that one loss doesn't mean much, but the way the cards fell, PSU wins the division. Is it fair that Wisconsin plays both Michigan and OSU, but Iowa only plays Michigan.. and neither team is even in your division yet effect your standing. College football is what it is, it was never designed to be as exact as we all want it to be.

You're right "College football is what it is, it was never designed to be as exact as we all want it to be". Penn State won the BIG 10 East division and "it is what it is".

 

[TheRobotDevil]

OSU-PSU-michigan did a round robin; only PSU was demolished.

OSU-PSU-michigan compared statistically; OSU and michigan are nationally elite on both sides of the ball while PSU is not by any metric, despite playing the weakest schedule of the 3.

OSU has 1 loss, PSU has 2. OSU already has a win on the road at Wisconsin, so why does PSU get more credit for beating them on a neutral field?

If the idea is to put the 4 best teams into the playoff, Ohio State is in. Like I said - put them in the B1G West and they get to play this Saturday. However, Wisconsin (sitting at 4th overall in the B1G) gets to play. How is that fair in your mind?

Penn State beat Ohio state on the field where it counts most. Same division it balances out. I cant see claiming to be better than a team.That won the head to head match up and won the division.

 

[The Oldtimer]

OSU-PSU-michigan did a round robin; only PSU was demolished.

OSU-PSU-michigan compared statistically; OSU and michigan are nationally elite on both sides of the ball while PSU is not by any metric, despite playing the weakest schedule of the 3.

OSU has 1 loss, PSU has 2. OSU already has a win on the road at Wisconsin, so why does PSU get more credit for beating them on a neutral field?

If the idea is to put the 4 best teams into the playoff, Ohio State is in. Like I said - put them in the B1G West and they get to play this Saturday. However, Wisconsin (sitting at 4th overall in the B1G) gets to play. How is that fair in your mind?

Because "Wisconsin won the BIG 10 West" and they get a chance to play Penn State, the winner of the BIG 10 East in the BIG 10 CG. That's the way it works.

 

[Across The Field]

Penn State beat Ohio state on the field where it counts most. Same division it balances out. I cant see claiming to be better than a team.That won the head to head match up and won the division.

OSU has the same amount of conference losses as Penn State and has been a superior team statistically while facing a tougher schedule and has fewer total losses. They're the better team. Using a game that OSU was thoroughly dominant in, where PSU was coming off it's bye while OSU was coming off a road night game at Wisconsin, that came down to a late fluke play is not an indicator of who is actually a better team. There is a good reason why OSU is ranked 6 spots ahead of Penn State right now.

 

[Across The Field]

Because "Wisconsin won the BIG 10 West" and they get a chance to play Penn State, the winner of the BIG 10 East in the BIG 10 CG. That's the way it works.

Yep, and Wisconsin is 4th in the overall B1G standings. An arbitrary placement of them in the West doesn't mean they're somehow better than OSU just because they get an extra game, which is why OSU is largely considered a lock to be in the playoff.