Shots fired

[theboardref]

Understand I am not trying to be argumentative, nor am I saying you are wrong. I am just trying to figure out how they lose any money they are now getting. Under my scenario:

- Regular season doesn't change at all.
- 4 best G5 teams will play in a play off, obviously involving 3 games.
- All other G5 teams will continue to be eligible to play in the bowl games they are now eligible to play in.
- Nothing else changes.

Where is the money they are losing? UCF got $4 million for the Peach Bowl. That's the only thing that would go away in my scenario, but I would have to believe the G5 NC game would garner more than that?

Never said you were trying to be, I just don’t know how else to explain it.

According to the article I posted, $81.32 is divided among the non-aq teams. In G5 playoff scenario, that money goes away. Why would the Power 5 be willing to hand out that cash? There is no incentive. In Louisiana, the public schools have now split with the private schools, neither side is going to share their own slice of the payday because why would they?

ESPN would pay some money to host the G5 playoff I am sure, but do you think it will be in the $81.32 million dollar range?

Most non-aq bowls fetch max is around $1.5 million. Plus the major bowls aren’t going to shell put this on. So now you are contracting stadium, paying workers, security, and not really selling any tickets (look at even great match-ups, they don’t sell tickets). The FCS take a hit on hosting playoffs from what I have read, and it would be closer to that than the millions they get from the Playoffs.

If you still don’t get it, there is really nothing else to discuss on my end. I have laid it out for you 3 different/yet same ways.

 

[LawDawg]

Never said you were trying to be, I just don’t know how else to explain it.

According to the article I posted, $81.32 is divided among the non-aq teams. In G5 playoff scenario, that money goes away. Why would the Power 5 be willing to hand out that cash? There is no incentive. In Louisiana, the public schools have now split with the private schools, neither side is going to share their own slice of the payday because why would they?

ESPN would pay some money to host the G5 playoff I am sure, but do you think it will be in the $81.32 million dollar range?

Most non-aq bowls fetch max is around $1.5 million. Plus the major bowls aren’t going to shell put this on. So now you are contracting stadium, paying workers, security, and not really selling any tickets (look at even great match-ups, they don’t sell tickets). The FCS take a hit on hosting playoffs from what I have read, and it would be closer to that than the millions they get from the Playoffs.

If you still don’t get it, there is really nothing else to discuss on my end. I have laid it out for you 3 different/yet same ways.

Now I see where that money comes from that I was missing. I assumed the $81 million comes from their cut in the bowl games they played in, not from the CFP games and TV contract. I agree with you ... I can't imagine they would get that much from their own CFP.

That said, there is one possibility ... they are getting $81 million for nothing as they really aren't involved in the CFP. So they are getting charity already from the P5 for not contributing anything. It would be in the interest of the P5 and G5 to have a G5 CFP ... they can still get their $81 million for doing nothing, and they can earn more by what is in essence a JV CFP. The idea not being about money and more about giving them something to shoot for that would mean something to them.

Thanks for hanging in there ... I'm just kind of shocked they get the $81 million for doing nothing. That wasn't registering.

 

[LawDawg]

The second best G5 last year was Fresno St....

You think there would be more money for a #8 UCF vs #22 Fresno State for the "G5 Championship" than there was for a #8 UCF vs #11 LSU matchup........

I don't know what to say to that....other than I'm sorry about your traumatic brain injury.

You didn't read what I wrote ... a JV CFP would involve at least 3 teams, 3 games. So, yes, a 3 game JV CFP would bring in more than one NYD game. As the article posted above said, UCF got $4 million. A 3 game JV CFP would make way more than that, I suspect.

 

[theboardref]

I assumed the $81 million comes from their cut in the bowl games they played in, not from the CFP games and TV contract. I agree with you ... I can't imagine they would get that much from their own CFP.

That said, there is one possibility ... they are getting $81 million for nothing as they really aren't involved in the CFP. So they are getting charity already from the P5 for not contributing anything. It would be in the interest of the P5 and G5 to have a G5 CFP ... they can still get their $81 million for doing nothing, and they can earn more by what is in essence a JV CFP. The idea not being about money and more about giving them something to shoot for that would mean something to them.

Thanks for hanging in there ... I'm just kind of shocked they get the $81 million for doing nothing. That wasn't registering.

No problem. I guess if the major universities wanted to be generous they would still give the smaller teams that $81 million, but if they are going to have their own playoff my gut feeling is they would be excluded from any major bowls negating their payday. Even if they just had the top 4 teams, what are they going to do, call up the 5th best G5 team? It would be a tough sell to convince major conferences to give up that cash while getting nothing from it.

 

[LawDawg]

No problem. I guess if the major universities wanted to be generous they would still give the smaller teams that $81 million, but if they are going to have their own playoff my gut feeling is they would be excluded from any major bowls negating their payday. Even if they just had the top 4 teams, what are they going to do, call up the 5th best G5 team? It would be a tough sell to convince major conferences to give up that cash while getting nothing from it.

Yeah, I doubt it will happen. And, I don't care ... it's the G5. I am just surprised they get the $81 million to begin with. From your article you quoted, that's above and beyond any money they would get from playing in the non-CFP bowls. So basically, getting it for nothing. So, the P5 would have no reason to take it away if they want to have a JV CFP. Again, just spit balling.

 

[Rolltide94]

You didn't read what I wrote ... a JV CFP would involve at least 3 teams, 3 games. So, yes, a 3 game JV CFP would bring in more than one NYD game. As the article posted above said, UCF got $4 million. A 3 game JV CFP would make way more than that, I suspect.

That's not how this works...that's not how any of this works. The P5 teams aren't giving them 81 million as charity, they are giving them a share so there will be enough teams to fill out the 80 odd bowl slots...which often pits P5 vs G5. There isn't 8 million dollars of interest in a G5 playoff let alone 81 million.

Not counting Army-Navy, The best G5 vs G5 game for regular season ratings last year was UCF vs Memphis....it drew a 2.2....same as Alabama's blowout of Missouri. The rematch in the AAC Championship between the two highest ranked G5 teams at the time got a 2.1...Even the snoozefest that was the Clemson vs Pitt championship game drew a 2.5.

The New Year's Day bowls and the semi-finals are normally 8 million to 20 million viewers, regardless of who is playing, better matchups, better ratings, but 8 million is about the floor. The Boise-TCU Fiesta Bowl was the best ever for two G5 teams playing each other with almost 14 million viewers....as you would expect for a 3 vs 6 matchup. The LSU vs UCF Peach Bowl was the second lowest rated NY6 Bowl...with only UF vs Michigan doing worse.

Move any G5 game outside the New Year's slot and there isn't 8 million people watching...or probably even 3, there are only so many holiday slots to go around. For Round 1, the numbers would be even lower. The total viewers for all 3 games would not equal the viewers for the NY6 game and thus the 4 teams involved would not be worth paying more than the 1 team would have gotten for the NY6 game. It's not rocket science, 9-3 Florida vs 8-4 Michigan is going to outdraw 12-0 Boise State vs 12-0 UCF if one is played on New Year's Day and the other is on Dec 28th.

College Football is big business, these aren't idiots running these G5 schools, I can assure you if they could figure out a way for 8 million people to want to watch Bumblefuck St play for the G5 title they would have done it years ago. The reality is that 9-3 Michigan is always going to be a bigger tv draw than 13-0 Western Michigan. No amount of fairy dust is going to change that.

 

[LawDawg]

That's not how this works...that's not how any of this works. The P5 teams aren't giving them 81 million as charity, they are giving them a share so there will be enough teams to fill out the 80 odd bowl slots...which often pits P5 vs G5. There isn't 8 million dollars of interest in a G5 playoff let alone 81 million.

Not counting Army-Navy, The best G5 vs G5 game for regular season ratings last year was UCF vs Memphis....it drew a 2.2....same as Alabama's blowout of Missouri. The rematch in the AAC Championship between the two highest ranked G5 teams at the time got a 2.1...Even the snoozefest that was the Clemson vs Pitt championship game drew a 2.5.

The New Year's Day bowls and the semi-finals are normally 8 million to 20 million viewers, regardless of who is playing, better matchups, better ratings, but 8 million is about the floor. The Boise-TCU Fiesta Bowl was the best ever for two G5 teams playing each other with almost 14 million viewers....as you would expect for a 3 vs 6 matchup. The LSU vs UCF Peach Bowl was the second lowest rated NY6 Bowl...with only UF vs Michigan doing worse.

Move any G5 game outside the New Year's slot and there isn't 8 million people watching...or probably even 3, there are only so many holiday slots to go around. For Round 1, the numbers would be even lower. The total viewers for all 3 games would not equal the viewers for the NY6 game and thus the 4 teams involved would not be worth paying more than the 1 team would have gotten for the NY6 game. It's not rocket science, 9-3 Florida vs 8-4 Michigan is going to outdraw 12-0 Boise State vs 12-0 UCF if one is played on New Year's Day and the other is on Dec 28th.

College Football is big business, these aren't idiots running these G5 schools, I can assure you if they could figure out a way for 8 million people to want to watch Bumblefuck St play for the G5 title they would have done it years ago. The reality is that 9-3 Michigan is always going to be a bigger tv draw than 13-0 Western Michigan. No amount of fairy dust is going to change that.

You need to relax when you discuss these things ... throwing out insults isn't constructive to having an adult conversation with me. Maybe you are just used to fighting with everyone here, but I am just having a civil discussion. You want to get all pissy, I'm not your guy.

Most of what you typed makes sense and is rather obvious. No one is saying that a JV CFP game is going to outdraw NYD bowl games. If the G5 wants to have their best teams get into a NYD game every now and again, or play a 7-5 TCU in a bowl game, so be it. If that is what they want then the status quo will stay in place and they will never get into the real CFP. At the end of the day I don't give two shits about the G5 or them thinking they are getting slighted. And, I certainly don't think the P5 should change what they do for them. But, I am open to discussions on how the G5 could have something of their own. That is the intent of my discussion here.

What I am suggesting could be an alternative is a CFP for the G5 - I am calling it the JV CFP for discussion purposes. Then you would have the 4 best G5 teams playing it out for a real CFP championship. If that has no value to them, cool. I don't care ... I'm a fan of a real team that will play for the real CFP. If it doesn't make financial sense for them, that's cool too.

As for the $81 million, there is some confusion as to what that is for. You seem to be saying it is for them to be available for the other bowl games. Can you provide a cite for that? Because the article that was cited above seems to say that is their share of the CFP money which is exactly not the other 35 bowl games. The CFP is the actual 3 CFP games, plus the New Year Bowl games. That is what makes over a billion dollars and that appears to be what they are getting a cut of for whatever reason. I mean the B1G and the PAC got a cut of CFP money, and they didn't have teams in the actual CFP games, so the 5 conferences that are the G5 I guess get some money from the whole thing. But, they also get a cut of the actual bowl games they play in, in addition to the $81 million CFP money.

FWIW, I am pretty confident that a JV CFP would easily make more than 8 million, the number you threw out. There is a reason the crappy bowl games, that include far worse teams than those that would be in a JV CFP, exist ... they make money. If people are watching the worst G5 play the worst P5 in a bowl game on December 21st, enough would watch JV CFP games.

 

[Rolltide94]

You need to relax when you discuss these things ... throwing out insults isn't constructive to having an adult conversation with me. Maybe you are just used to fighting with everyone here, but I am just having a civil discussion. You want to get all pissy, I'm not your guy.

FWIW, I am pretty confident that a JV CFP would easily make more than 8 million, the number you threw out. There is a reason the crappy bowl games, that include far worse teams than those that would be in a JV CFP, exist ... they make money. If people are watching the worst G5 play the worst P5 in a bowl game on December 21st, enough would watch JV CFP games.

Maybe you should try to quit saying dumb shit, that would make me relax significantly.

If the NYD bowls only pay out 8 million...and you admit that this shitfest won't outdraw the NYD bowls. how in the fuck would this JV CFP payout more than 8 million not on NYD. There isn't even a payout for appearing in the CFP National Championship game, the only thing the two teams get is 2.25 in travel expenses., LOL that the JV CFP is going to payout 8 mil, and lol at your confidence in that delusion.

the $81.32 million is the base payout for the G5 teams participation in the CFP. It is separate from any specific bowl participation payouts. I would imagine the payout for removing their 4 best teams from the playoff scenario and bowl participation would result in a number significantly lower....significantly more than whatever the payout would be for the JV playoffs.

The shitty bowls don't exist to make money, they exist to fill 24 hour ESPN channels with live programming. December is a particularly shitty month for available live programming, live bowl games help, particularly ones during the week. It is the reason that they own 15 bowls...not because they make money, but because they don't pay for them. ESPN is basically putting them on for free programming. It is cheaper for them because they don't have to count on getting paid broadcast rights to make up the shitty gate. That is why every bowl except one that is not owned by ESPN are owned by non-profits. The one is the Pinstripe Bowl...owned by the New York Yankees...who conveniently own this thing called a stadium.

 

[TheLonestarDUCK]

Both you guys are intelligent and have high knowledge of CFB. I wish we could sit down and have a few beers and talk CFB.

 

[LawDawg]

Maybe you should try to quit saying dumb shit, that would make me relax significantly.

If the NYD bowls only pay out 8 million...and you admit that this shitfest won't outdraw the NYD bowls. how in the fuck would this JV CFP payout more than 8 million not on NYD. There isn't even a payout for appearing in the CFP National Championship game, the only thing the two teams get is 2.25 in travel expenses., LOL that the JV CFP is going to payout 8 mil, and lol at your confidence in that delusion.

the $81.32 million is the base payout for the G5 teams participation in the CFP. It is separate from any specific bowl participation payouts. I would imagine the payout for removing their 4 best teams from the playoff scenario and bowl participation would result in a number significantly lower....significantly more than whatever the payout would be for the JV playoffs.

The shitty bowls don't exist to make money, they exist to fill 24 hour ESPN channels with live programming. December is a particularly shitty month for available live programming, live bowl games help, particularly ones during the week. It is the reason that they own 15 bowls...not because they make money, but because they don't pay for them. ESPN is basically putting them on for free programming. It is cheaper for them because they don't have to count on getting paid broadcast rights to make up the shitty gate. That is why every bowl except one that is not owned by ESPN are owned by non-profits. The one is the Pinstripe Bowl...owned by the New York Yankees...who conveniently own this thing called a stadium.

Didn't get past your first sentence. Ignore.

 

[Rolltide94]

Didn't get past your first sentence. Ignore.

Good, I was tired of hearing about how you "feel" about shit with 0 actual facts to support your touchy feely bullshit.

 

[963BUSC]

Which is why the answer is to split the two and let the G5 have their own playoff. It's not to drag down the P5's quality of CFP by allowing a lesser team or team into the system. This isn't really hard to understand.

Eliminating everything else that has been said about the financial side of this, I would really hate to see that happen. The Boise State vs Oklahoma game is still one of the greatest games I've ever watched. I'd rather have the slim chance to get another game like that than see BSU vs UCF in a JV game.

For what its worth I'd rather watch LSU's JV crush UCF than see them play BSU either.