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Sherman

blstoker

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I disagree with those who are now coming in and saying he play had fallen off pre-injury.

Whether it was due to injury or not, Sherman's play had certainly fallen off even before he was lost for the season. It's not to say he wasn't our best corner, or that he still wasn't one of the best in the NFL - but his standard of play from 2012-2014 would've been nearly impossible to maintain.

In 2016, Sherman was targeted 50% more often than in 2013, while producing 65.9% less on Ints and 50 % less on PDs. Intercepting 4.7% of the passes thrown your way is really good - it just isn't 13.8%.

Sorry, these stats are spotty, and I'm not willing to pay PFF $200 to use their stats. I wish the target and success stats against CBs was easier to find and more complete, I'll even list everything I found on Sherman's targets:

2011 - N/A
2012 - 86 targets
2013 - 58 targets
2014 - 65 targets
2015 - N/A (I assume to be around 60-70)
2016 - 85 targets
2017 - N/A (I assume to be around 45-55)

I'm gonna miss Sherman. I feel if he recovers from his achilles issues, then he's still a top 10 CB. He's as tough as they come, and there aren't many CBs who take on blocker, shed 'em and make tackles in the running game like Sherman has been known to do. I wish he wasn't cut, not angry just sad, and I am disappointed he went to SF (though that isn't surprising in the least). I wish him well, and if he still has something left after leaving SF, I would love him to finish his career back in Seattle.
 

JMR

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I think there's a bit more to it than just the numbers. For instance, some time after 2013, teams no longer threw certain types of passes (sideline fades is a good example) against Sherman because it was such a relatively high risk. He would also have games where they wouldnt throw his way at all, despite what the total targets may have been from a particular site. I think we all remember that stretch.

My eyeball test didnt really see much of a different player the first half of last year than before that. Of course he wasnt getting as many INTs or PDs, but I'm not sure that means his play took some big drop off.
 

blstoker

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My eyeball test didnt really see much of a different player the first half of last year than before that. Of course he wasnt getting as many INTs or PDs, but I'm not sure that means his play took some big drop off.

Well, my eye test disagrees with your's. What I've seen from Sherman at times the last 3 seasons is a guy who misses his assignments, doesn't recover like he used to and refuses to take responsibility for his mistakes when he makes them. Nothing so terrible that I'd say he was horrible or even that he wasn't elite - just not as good as he was a few years ago. This isn't to say that at 30 he's over the hill and can't return to form, especially if he can get himself healthy - just that he hasn't been the same historically dominate player he was 2012-2014.

Now, as far as I know, neither of us are professional scouts so it's really not that big a deal that we see it differently.
 

HaroldSeattle

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Well, my eye test disagrees with your's. What I've seen from Sherman at times the last 3 seasons is a guy who misses his assignments, doesn't recover like he used to and refuses to take responsibility for his mistakes when he makes them. Nothing so terrible that I'd say he was horrible or even that he wasn't elite - just not as good as he was a few years ago. This isn't to say that at 30 he's over the hill and can't return to form, especially if he can get himself healthy - just that he hasn't been the same historically dominate player he was 2012-2014.

Now, as far as I know, neither of us are professional scouts so it's really not that big a deal that we see it differently.
My eyeballs say the same blstoker. Seemed like Sherman was being burnt and desperately trying physical tactics to keep WRs from blowing by him. I also agree the downturn started in 2015.
 

Anointed One

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Well, my eye test disagrees with your's. What I've seen from Sherman at times the last 3 seasons is a guy who misses his assignments, doesn't recover like he used to and refuses to take responsibility for his mistakes when he makes them. Nothing so terrible that I'd say he was horrible or even that he wasn't elite - just not as good as he was a few years ago. This isn't to say that at 30 he's over the hill and can't return to form, especially if he can get himself healthy - just that he hasn't been the same historically dominate player he was 2012-2014.

Now, as far as I know, neither of us are professional scouts so it's really not that big a deal that we see it differently.

Exactly the way I feel as well... He would get burned and blame others...
 

chf

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Didn't someone link something that said that his stats were actually the 2nd best of his career?

Dunno why everyone is in such a hurry to burn the guy down.

Thanks for the contributions Sherm.
 

JMR

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Didn't someone link something that said that his stats were actually the 2nd best of his career?

Dunno why everyone is in such a hurry to burn the guy down.

Thanks for the contributions Sherm.
His play seems to be getting worse and worse! Now I guess he was in decline since 2015.
 

HaroldSeattle

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I feel all the LOB have declined, not just Sherman. Not saying they were bad, but they peaked and had only one way to go.
 

JMR

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I feel all the LOB have declined, not just Sherman. Not saying they were bad, but they peaked and had only one way to go.
Well, the rest of the LOB means ET and Kam. I suppose it's easy to say Kam has peaked since his playing future is in doubt, but ET was as good as ever last year despite the defense crumbling around him due to key injuries.
 

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His play likely wasn't at the same level last year as it was in 2012 or 2013 when he was about as shut down a corner as the league has ever seen.

Part of that is likely a small decline in his physical abilities. Part of it was due to a pass rush that wasn't as effective. And part of it was due to teams exploiting underneath routes against the Seahawks as the "blueprint" to beating them.

A healthy Sherm is still one of the top corners in the league, even if he can't shut down an entire side of the field anymore.
 

JMR

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His play likely wasn't at the same level last year as it was in 2012 or 2013 when he was about as shut down a corner as the league has ever seen.

Part of that is likely a small decline in his physical abilities. Part of it was due to a pass rush that wasn't as effective. And part of it was due to teams exploiting underneath routes against the Seahawks as the "blueprint" to beating them.

A healthy Sherm is still one of the top corners in the league, even if he can't shut down an entire side of the field anymore.
I would agree we have seen Sherm's best football (after all, he's on the verge of 30 and coming off a ruptured Achilles), but I think it's a bit over the top to say he's been on the decline since 2015 when he was 27 years old.
 

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His play seems to be getting worse and worse! Now I guess he was in decline since 2015.

It's a horrible insult to claim someone is a top 10 player at their position!!!!!! Oh, the humanity!! Sherman's performance couldn't possibly be any worse than it ever was - cause he's not actually mortal!!


Calm down. No one is saying that he's a scrub now. No one is even saying he sucked in any way. It's just that his performance wasn't good enough to justify the risk of his contract and the severity of his injury. Nothing sinister there.
 

JMR

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It's a horrible insult to claim someone is a top 10 player at their position!!!!!! Oh, the humanity!! Sherman's performance couldn't possibly be any worse than it ever was - cause he's not actually mortal!!

Calm down. No one is saying that he's a scrub now. No one is even saying he sucked in any way. It's just that his performance wasn't good enough to justify the risk of his contract and the severity of his injury. Nothing sinister there.
Heh...I'm the one who needs to calm down? Ok.

I agree there was a great deal of prudence in cutting a $13M 29 yo CB coming off a ruptured Achilles. Pretty sure I've said as much in here already.
 

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Calm down. No one is saying that he's a scrub now. No one is even saying he sucked in any way. It's just that his performance wasn't good enough to justify the risk of his contract and the severity of his injury. Nothing sinister there.

I kinda disagree with this. I don't think that his performance last year, prior to the injury, was a major factor in cutting him. If they thought that there was a good chance that he would return to 2017 form, they would not have cut him.

But the truth is that the team was severely cap constrained and taking a risk on paying Sherm $13 million to be a bench warmer because he was still recovering from his injury simply didn't make financial sense.
 

chf

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Calm down. No one is saying that he's a scrub now. No one is even saying he sucked in any way. It's just that his performance wasn't good enough to justify the risk of his contract and the severity of his injury. Nothing sinister there.

I've been predicting that some big $ cornerstones were essentially done since last season. There's no way around the realities of a salary cap world. So don't count me as saying we should have necessarily kept him.

I'm just commenting on what I see as people trying to retroactively say he was less than he was.

Why do that?

He was as integral to Seattle's Lombardi as anyone.

He wasn't ever guilty of anything but being a loudmouth.
 

blstoker

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Heh...I'm the one who needs to calm down? Ok.

Well, if you can't pick up on the logical fallacy and sarcasm is my post, there's not much I can do.

I've been predicting that some big $ cornerstones were essentially done since last season. There's no way around the realities of a salary cap world. So don't count me as saying we should have necessarily kept him.

I'm just commenting on what I see as people trying to retroactively say he was less than he was.

Why do that?

He was as integral to Seattle's Lombardi as anyone.

He wasn't ever guilty of anything but being a loudmouth.

I don't think that Sherman wasn't important to the success of the defense. Actually, I even believe that until he went down last year, he was a major reason our pass defense was a top ranked pass defense. His absence this coming season is going to be something near impossible to replace. There is no one on the roster that has shown that they can come in a replace what he was.
 

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I've been predicting that some big $ cornerstones were essentially done since last season. There's no way around the realities of a salary cap world. So don't count me as saying we should have necessarily kept him.

I'm just commenting on what I see as people trying to retroactively say he was less than he was.

Why do that?

He was as integral to Seattle's Lombardi as anyone.

He wasn't ever guilty of anything but being a loudmouth.

Hey don’t mistake the observations that Sherman, like everyone is affected by Father Time into fans thinking he sucks now that he isn’t a Seahawk.
 

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The only player that father time seems to have forgotten is Tom Brady and who the he'll knows why.
 

poewelch84

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The only that father time seems to have forgotten is Tom Brady and who the he'll knows wh
Because Brady sold his soul to the Devil

I thought he did that to get his wife.
 
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