Game Thread: Seattle @ Atlanta 12PM CST

[JMR]

I see "limited in practice" but not much else I can find on Dissly.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Well, most of the external opinions seem to be that our defense is worse on paper right now than it was last year. I think that is wildly off, but I admit it's tough to have a completely objective picture of your favorite team. To me, the secondary and LB room are both clear step above what we had in 2019. We lost the most talented player from last year's DL, but I don't think that means the group as a whole isn't better. The way I see it, returning key players Jarran Reed, LJ Collier, and Rasheem Green should all have better seasons than last year. And just in terms of sack totals, Irvin + Mayowa will run a few laps around what we got from Clowney & Ansah in '19. Jamal Adams should also contribute with a handful of sacks. I need to seem some reasons the D is worse on paper other than losing Clowney.

Everyone is like: "BUT SEATTLE'S PASS RUSH OMGOMGFOF!" We lost Clowney and that was about it... yes Clowney is good, but we added Irvin, Mayowa, and Adams (best pass rushing safety in the NFL, and Carroll likes his box safeties). Our secondary if Dunbar plays is VASTLY improved, and if Brooks/Collier can stay healthy those are two decent impact players that can help.

I have ZERO clue why anyone would say Seattle's D is worse. Last year we couldn't get any pass pressure because QBs were dumping the ball off in < 3 seconds every down because everyone outside of Griffin (Diggs hurt) was horrible in coverage. I love B Wags, but I was SO HAPPY we drafted Brooks. Wagner has definitely lost a bit of a step which is 100% understandable given all the snaps/tackles he's taken so having him run 50 yards down the field is no longer viable. Brooks/Adams should be doing that on TE/slot WR match ups, now.

 

[JMR]

Everyone is like: "BUT SEATTLE'S PASS RUSH OMGOMGFOF!" We lost Clowney and that was about it... yes Clowney is good, but we added Irvin, Mayowa, and Adams (best pass rushing safety in the NFL, and Carroll likes his box safeties). Our secondary if Dunbar plays is VASTLY improved, and if Brooks/Collier can stay healthy those are two decent impact players that can help.

I have ZERO clue why anyone would say Seattle's D is worse. Last year we couldn't get any pass pressure because QBs were dumping the ball off in < 3 seconds every down because everyone outside of Griffin (Diggs hurt) was horrible in coverage. I love B Wags, but I was SO HAPPY we drafted Brooks. Wagner has definitely lost a bit of a step which is 100% understandable given all the snaps/tackles he's taken so having him run 50 yards down the field is no longer viable. Brooks/Adams should be doing that on TE/slot WR match ups, now.

Yeah, we lost the 1 "name" player from the DL, so that is the sole determining factor for a lot of people. As far as the D as a whole, the thing most Hawks fans are having a tough time getting past is we just don't have that 1 dominant pass rusher that the better teams tend to have. And even though we didn't have that in 2013 either, the natural reaction to that comparison is to just say there is no comparison to the 2013 defense. To a large degree I agree with that, I also think the big jump our secondary (and maybe even LBs) should take this year will mitigate whatever the shortcomings of the DL might be.

 

[Sharkonabicycle]

Yeah, we lost the 1 "name" player from the DL, so that is the sole determining factor for a lot of people. As far as the D as a whole, the thing most Hawks fans are having a tough time getting past is we just don't have that 1 dominant pass rusher that the better teams tend to have. And even though we didn't have that in 2013 either, the natural reaction to that comparison is to just say there is no comparison to the 2013 defense. To a large degree I agree with that, I also think the big jump our secondary (and maybe even LBs) should take this year will mitigate whatever the shortcomings of the DL might be.

Well, our 2012-13 defense never had a 'DOMINANT' pass rusher HUGE big money name (like Bosa, etc.) either. Bennett was largely kind of an unknown and commanded little interest in free agency, Clemons/Avril were basically small name guys and never commanded much interest in the market either.

The pass rush did well for us that year because the secondary was so fuckin' good that QBs couldn't find anyone to throw the fuckin' ball to in 2 seconds let alone 5.

I'm a HUGE advocate of dominant safeties. I think it's one of the most overlooked positions "2 1sts for a SAFETY!?" but EVERY team that's won the SBOWL in the last decade had an elite or borderline elite one. They're responsible for shifting and positioning the entire secondary... who protects generally against the pass... in a league that's passing non-stop these days. Derp?

Edit: Also, Rasheem Green SHOULD be coming into form this year. We KNEW when we drafted him he was raw/undeveloped and it would take 1-2 years for him to bulk up/get some moves, but he had ALL the physical qualities you want. LJ Collier barely even played and was injured the whole season. I'm not really sure what the F people are expecting. That's a 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder, and let's not forget Taylor who was another 3rd rounder. It's not like we're IGNORING the DL.

 

[JMR]

Well, our 2012-13 defense never had a 'DOMINANT' pass rusher HUGE big money name (like Bosa, etc.) either. Bennett was largely kind of an unknown and commanded little interest in free agency, Clemons/Avril were basically small name guys and never commanded much interest in the market either.

The pass rush did well for us that year because the secondary was so fuckin' good that QBs couldn't find anyone to throw the fuckin' ball to in 2 seconds let alone 5.

Yeah, that was pretty much my point -- we built a great defense before without having 1 top name pass rusher. I just think most Hawks fans view the 2013 team as so far beyond anything else we have seen that you can't draw many comparisons to it. I don't think this year's team needs a defense anywhere near as good as the SB48 champs in order for us to grab another Lombardi because of how much better RW is now plus the weapons he has around him are a lot better on the whole (although Lynch + Baldwin/Tate/Kearse + Miller was almost perfect for what we did on offense back then).

Part of the trepidation could be that most Hawks fans just haven't watched Jamal Adams all that much and don't have a full grasp of how special he is. He is a tilt the field type player on defense. I think re-building the D from the back forward could work very well for us again. It's not the "conventional wisdom" approach, but that doesn't mean it can't work. We have a stacked secondary and a stacked LB corps. Go with your strengths and see what happens.

 

[Warden]

I expect a sloppy game from the offense. Our scheme with our line requires so much timing with each other. The lack of pre season games and limited contact in practice combined with some new faces in the starting OL is just means we are going to be off. Russell will be having to pull off his scrambling magic to compensate

 

[HaroldSeattle]

Yes think we see a lot of sloppy games across the board with offenses to begin the season.

 

[Anointed One]

Chiefs looked pretty good last night... They're scary...

 

[JMR]

From was just reported on 710, neither Duane Brown nor Will Dissly are on the final injury report.

 

[Judge Fudge]

 

[JMR]

As far as expecting sloppy play goes, it isn't going to be mid-season for sure, but we also have an elite QB with receivers he's familiar with in an offense that he's been running for a couple years now...going against a defense that has some secondary issues and hasn't played anyone but themselves in practice. I think on the whole there will be sloppy play across the league on Sunday, but I think we will be less affected by that than a lot of other teams that don't have really good QBs and/or continuity on offense.

 

[Screamin12th]

wow did SportsHoopla change their layout? O.O

 

[Podunkparte]

wow did SportsHoopla change their layout? O.O

Change? Yes

Upgrade? Eeehhh

 

[flyerhawk]

Everyone is like: "BUT SEATTLE'S PASS RUSH OMGOMGFOF!" We lost Clowney and that was about it... yes Clowney is good, but we added Irvin, Mayowa, and Adams (best pass rushing safety in the NFL, and Carroll likes his box safeties). Our secondary if Dunbar plays is VASTLY improved, and if Brooks/Collier can stay healthy those are two decent impact players that can help.

I have ZERO clue why anyone would say Seattle's D is worse. Last year we couldn't get any pass pressure because QBs were dumping the ball off in < 3 seconds every down because everyone outside of Griffin (Diggs hurt) was horrible in coverage. I love B Wags, but I was SO HAPPY we drafted Brooks. Wagner has definitely lost a bit of a step which is 100% understandable given all the snaps/tackles he's taken so having him run 50 yards down the field is no longer viable. Brooks/Adams should be doing that on TE/slot WR match ups, now.

We lost Clowney, Al Woods, Branden Jackson and Quinton Jefferson.

We brought in Avril and Mayowa.

I don't think our defense is worse. But our defense was bad last year and prevented us from being a true Super Bowl contender. Our received flattered to deceive us last year because we were ridiculously fortunate in close matches.

We need our D to be MUCH better.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

well Dissly was on the injury report with an Achilles injury .....

Man, he just can't stay on the field.. Sucks because he's a talented guy, but so far he seems like one of those guy's that's never gonna play a full season...

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

We lost Clowney, Al Woods, Branden Jackson and Quinton Jefferson.

We brought in Avril and Mayowa.

I don't think our defense is worse. But our defense was bad last year and prevented us from being a true Super Bowl contender. Our received flattered to deceive us last year because we were ridiculously fortunate in close matches.

We need our D to be MUCH better.

Our secondary is MUCH better on paper ... But it's a total question mark how were gonna get a pass rush going, we just gotta hope one of the young draft picks steps up ... We also gotta mix up our D, not be as predictable... We're only going as far as our defense takes us, because offensively were gonna be good ...

 

[flyerhawk]

Our secondary is MUCH better on paper ... But it's a total question mark how were gonna get a pass rush going, we just gotta hope one of the young draft picks steps up ... We also gotta mix up our D, not be as predictable... We're only going as far as our defense takes us, because offensively were gonna be good ...

Pete Carroll isn't going to change his defensive philosophy.

What we REALLY need is to hope and pray that our DL is basically injury free this year because it is paper thin.

 

[JMR]

From was just reported on 710, neither Duane Brown nor Will Dissly are on the final injury report.

Man, he just can't stay on the field.. Sucks because he's a talented guy, but so far he seems like one of those guy's that's never gonna play a full season...

You must have missed my post -- Dissly is not on the final injury report. The Seahawks have only two players listed on the final injury report: backup tackle Cedric Ogbuehi, who has been ruled out with a pectoral injury, and receiver Phillip Dorsett II, who is questionable with a foot injury after not practicing Friday. PC said Dissly was just limited in practice on Thursday as a precaution and nothing more. He's not hurt again. At least not yet.

 

[JMR]

We lost Clowney, Al Woods, Branden Jackson and Quinton Jefferson.

We brought in Avril and Mayowa.

I don't think our defense is worse. But our defense was bad last year and prevented us from being a true Super Bowl contender. Our received flattered to deceive us last year because we were ridiculously fortunate in close matches.

We need our D to be MUCH better.

Avril came out of retirement?? I can't believe that hasn't been a bigger story.

I know you meant Irvin.

Just in terms of pass rush, I think Irvin and Mayowa coming on board is actually a huge upgrade over whoever we think our top 2 DEs were last year. I mean....our leading sack guy was Rasheem Green in his 2nd year after being drafted as a 20 year old in 2018. I suppose they are listing Irvin as a LB, but we all know he's going to be used almost exclusively as a pass rusher.

Woods, Jackson, and Jefferson were really just role players. Not that the roles are not important, but none of them are all that hard to replace. Quinton Jefferson might be the biggest loss.

Even with a "bad" defense last year, we were maybe a dropped pass by our 4th WR or 1 injured RB away from making the NFCC. And I suppose we were "fortunate" in close games, but teams with elite QBs tend to have those go their way. That's part of what makes an elite QB.

We will find out soon enough.

 

[flyerhawk]

Avril came out of retirement?? I can't believe that hasn't been a bigger story.

I know you meant Irvin.

Just in terms of pass rush, I think Irvin and Mayowa coming on board is actually a huge upgrade over whoever we think our top 2 DEs were last year. I mean....our leading sack guy was Rasheem Green in his 2nd year after being drafted as a 20 year old in 2018. I suppose they are listing Irvin as a LB, but we all know he's going to be used almost exclusively as a pass rusher.

Woods, Jackson, and Jefferson were really just role players. Not that the roles are not important, but none of them are all that hard to replace. Quinton Jefferson might be the biggest loss.

Even with a "bad" defense last year, we were maybe a dropped pass by our 4th WR or 1 injured RB away from making the NFCC. And I suppose we were "fortunate" in close games, but teams with elite QBs tend to have those go their way. That's part of what makes an elite QB.

We will find out soon enough.

I really really hope my pessimism is completely misplaced. I'm just not that jazzed about Irvin and Mayowa. I know they had decent sack totals but they got sacks on something like 30% of their pressures which is a ridiculously high rate and unlikely to be repeated. And both of them are questionable in rush support.

But ultimately is the interior of the line that I'm really concerned with. I just can't believe we only have 3 DTs on the roster. I get that they are likely going to swing Collier and maybe even Green into the middle on some pass plays. But our DL is going to be pretty darn light.