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San Jose Sharks Ongoing Buzz Thread

Likewall32

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I disagree... I believe that Burns up from makes EVERY forward line better. I site Hertls 20 steps backwards as a direct result of Burns being moved back to D... Same with Nieto...

Burns brings way more value to the team up from than on D.
 

Cbrower91

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Yep, giant questions at Goaltending and really no pretty solution. I definitely do not want ot sharks to give up valuable assets to add a goalie though. How is Bergvik looking? I havent followed him much...

As for Burns, id agree that he improved, but still not sufficient for my liking to overshadow what he brings to the forwards. I still feel like focusing on boosting the D corps through the draft or trades for sub-25 Dmen, or signing sub 28 UFA's is what I would prefer and then moving burns back up.

At the end of the day, for me at least, if the big two are here in september and there were only a few minor tweaks like adding one Dman or a depth forward or something, then it really doesnt much matter the rest.
The only problem with your assessment of burns is that your asking for something that comes around once every 15 years. Very rarely is there ever been a defenseman who was great on both sides of the ice typically if they are great offensively they are best good on defense and vice versa. I can only think of 2 defenseman in the last 25 years who meet that criteria and that's Lidstrom and Neidermeyer. Honorable mentions going to Weber and Ray Borque.

Sharks need offense from the back end because they aren't getting it from anyone else, so it's what you get which is better then nothing.
 

Cmon_WTF

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I disagree... I believe that Burns up from makes EVERY forward line better. I site Hertls 20 steps backwards as a direct result of Burns being moved back to D... Same with Nieto...

Burns brings way more value to the team up from than on D.

I understand that point of view and you may very well be right.

My view of Nieto is he struggled because his linemates were struggling most of the year. Couture had a rough 1st half of the season and Marleau struggled all year. That line was over matched going up against the other teams top lines and it showed in their ES production. As evidence when Nieto was moved away from that line his average production increased to a pace much higher than his rookie season. If you pro-rate his production away from Couture and Marleau he was on pace for 20 goals and 45 points.

Hertl's decline came because he was playing a 200 ft game this season. He's being groomed to be the 2nd line center when Thornton is gone and he needed to improve his play in the neutral and defensive zones. Last year he cherry picked a lot of his offense by breaking the defensive zone early or floating in the neutral zone. That's why last year it seemed like he got one or two breakaways each game, because he was cheating offensively. This season he didn't do that, he was much more responsible with his defensive positioning. He also did not get a full summer workout because of his injury and his knee was not 100% for a good portion of the year.
 

sjrules99

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The only problem with your assessment of burns is that your asking for something that comes around once every 15 years. Very rarely is there ever been a defenseman who was great on both sides of the ice typically if they are great offensively they are best good on defense and vice versa. I can only think of 2 defenseman in the last 25 years who meet that criteria and that's Lidstrom and Neidermeyer. Honorable mentions going to Weber and Ray Borque.

Sharks need offense from the back end because they aren't getting it from anyone else, so it's what you get which is better then nothing.

Dont get me wrong, Im not asking for a lidstrom or Niedermeyer. Those guys are of course generational talents, and one does not just get one of those.

Im asking for a Keith. A Doughty, A Chara from a few years ago, A boyle when we acquired him (he was better defensively then). Even a guy like what roman Josi has become or Giordano, maybe Shattenkirk or Mcdonagh.

There are lots of guys around the league who can play well at both ends of the ice, be on the #1 PP while also matching up against the top two opposition lines. The big strength of the sharks for much of the last 10 years was actually their D. Boyle was a true #1 in his prime, playing giant minutes. When they have boyle, blake, vlasic, and ehrhoff as the top 4 maybe 8 years ago, they were nothing short of dominant for a good stretch. All four of them could play at both ends and were also a constant threat.

Burns is not a true Defenseman. If Im not mistaken, he had played forward in juniors, and seemed better fit there. The irony is that the sharks have likely one of the top shut down pairs in the NHL with braun and vlasic. so if they could add a few real defensemen, them they could turn it around. But, they need to do so by adding sub-25 year old D, or through the draft.

To me, the only way to acquire such assets, be it high draft picks, top defensive prospects, or sub 25 year old NHL Dmen, is to deal the big two. Only then could they get those D in the system while also setting up the salary structure to move forward to bring in some key UFA vets at good ages to try to compete in the meantime.
 

Likewall32

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I understand that point of view and you may very well be right.

My view of Nieto is he struggled because his linemates were struggling most of the year. Couture had a rough 1st half of the season and Marleau struggled all year. That line was over matched going up against the other teams top lines and it showed in their ES production. As evidence when Nieto was moved away from that line his average production increased to a pace much higher than his rookie season. If you pro-rate his production away from Couture and Marleau he was on pace for 20 goals and 45 points.

Hertl's decline came because he was playing a 200 ft game this season. He's being groomed to be the 2nd line center when Thornton is gone and he needed to improve his play in the neutral and defensive zones. Last year he cherry picked a lot of his offense by breaking the defensive zone early or floating in the neutral zone. That's why last year it seemed like he got one or two breakaways each game, because he was cheating offensively. This season he didn't do that, he was much more responsible with his defensive positioning. He also did not get a full summer workout because of his injury and his knee was not 100% for a good portion of the year.

I think it was more because after the injury, they did change his style of play, which you mentioned, but I dont think it was the 200ft game that made his downgrade.. I think they told him to stop the wreckless kamikaze driving to the net, then he stopped driving in like a wrecking ball, his production went down a ton... Also, not playing which burns, who could create paths for him to drive is another factor... He has potentional to be a stud, but he will only be a stud with a power forward linemate. I dont see him as the type that can ever create that studliness on his own... Unless perhaps they allow him to play wreckless again
 

MrFlyingV

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I read Kurz and Remenda's comments about Marleau. They basically said he pouted and didn't move his feet all year. No surprise there after watching his season. There is your San Jose Sharks highest paid player. Buy out his ass if possible. One can only wish.

So TMac is leaving? Too bad. Not a perfect coach but not bad. But was he any better RWil? At least Baby Jay will be gone.
 

Cbrower91

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After last nights game I'm guessing Chicago is buying out Crawford and resigning Nemo this July
 

23sharks

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Here's the latest:

As if the San Jose Sharks could appear more dysfunctional.

At the team’s locker clean out/breakout day Wednesday, coach Todd McLellan and general manager Doug Wilson indicated there was no decision on McLellan’s future with the team. There have been smoke signals that McLellan – the team’s coach since 2008-09 – is done with the Sharks. San Jose missed the playoffs for the first time in 10 seasons.

"The answers you guys are looking for today, I'm not going to be able to give them to you," McLellan said. "I need a little more time, I'm sure the organization needs a little bit more time."

Alas, no white smoke. There is no new pope. But hold the phone on this neat little message by McLellan. Check out some of these quotes from CSN Bay Area in an interview with (alternate) captain Joe Thornton:

Did what happened at the end of last season carry over at all?

Thornton: "It didn't for me. I can just say personally it didn't for me. No."

Did it for the team?

Thornton: "It shouldn't have. If it did, we don't want them here. We want tough individuals that can handle adversity. If it did, we don't want you here."

Where does that improvement need to come, in terms of culture?

Thornton: "Everywhere. It comes from the coaches, and they bring it down to us. It comes from everywhere."

There’s a lot of focus on the coaching staff. Do you sense any need for change?

Thornton: "I have no idea. Todd has to talk to his family. Maybe he should talk to this family as well in here. We'll see what happens."

Thornton’s sarcasm amps have really gone up to 11 this year. First there was telling general manager Doug Wilson (publicly and to the media) to shut up after Wilson took a jab at Thornton’s leadership abilities at a season ticket holder event.

Last summer the Sharks organization stripped the captain’s ‘C’ from Jumbo Joe. Why? Wilson has tried to explain a few times, but ultimately, it was a choice – along with poor player personnel decisions since last offseason – that doomed what could have been a contending team this year.

Now there’s this. One day, our dream will come true and Thornton will score four goals.

Thornton is not the only player with issues in SJ. Logan Couture does not seem pleased with the culture.

“Not great. That’s my personal opinion, and that’s all I’m going to say about it," Couture said.

Remember, San Jose was a destination in the NHL. It had (still does) a passionate fanbase. Players lived in one of the most beautiful parts of North America. The teams won. Now it’s a gong show, and unnecessarily so.

As we mentioned yesterday, it’s starting to seem like in the end there can be only one between McLellan, Thornton and Wilson. And only one of those guys has a no-trade clause – that would be Thornton obviously.
 

23sharks

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Thornton saying they want tough guys here....LOL. Yeah, OK Joe.
Interesting comment from Couture too.
 

RaiderZar

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I'll take 1 JT over 10 PM's everyday of the week & twice on Sundays!
 

Cbrower91

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I wouldn't read to much into that Thornton quote on Tmac, that seems like to me anyways the players feel like they and the coaching staff are family and he's upset they aren't being included or at least not being kept informed
 

Mr. Teal

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I read Kurz and Remenda's comments about Marleau. They basically said he pouted and didn't move his feet all year.


@Marleau: That's what I've been saying. Validation!

@Thornton: What a jackass. Send him packing at the first opportunity. If he feels the need to blame everyone but himself, then to hell with him. Useless!

@Couture: This guy is closest to the mark. Make him happy. Fire Doug Wilson

Wilson, Marleau and Thornton... these are the ones causing problems and these are the ones who need to leave immediately if the Sharks are to have any chance of being competitive in the next 2 years.
 

Mr. Teal

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I'll take 1 JT over 10 PM's everyday of the week & twice on Sundays!

Those Thorntons will score no goals because no one wants to shoot the puck but will complain to the press about how people aren't treating him well enough. Here's the world's smallest violin playing just for Mr. Entitled.

1 Toews is worth 100 Thorntons.
 

Likewall32

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Everyone seems to want to keep Mac recently... But honesty, does his system really work with this team??
 

sjrules99

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Wilson isnt the problem. The big two are 36 years old, the two highest paid players in the team, neither is a leader, and neither is consistent or known for good efforts or playing when it matters. Jumbo>>>Marleau but still he's not himself from the late 2000's. Both a great depth players on a team with established leadership and someone else to carry the face of the franchise.

Wilson has made some questionable signings and could be guilty of overloyalty, and certainly gross mismanagement of last season's debacle. For that, perhaps he should be canned. On the other hand, you gotta tip your hat to what he has accomplished in the 10 years prior without the draft assets.

I believe that they can keep Tmac and Wilson and compete in the PO's for the next decade if they can ditch the big two. Patty has proven himself unreliably, inconsistent, and frankly a giant pouting pussy. he's been that for his whole career and now that he is old, his decline is remarkable. Jumbo has obviously pissed off a fair number of people, not just wilson, and now Tmac. Wilson didnt mention names, but obviously he didnt make up what he said about jumbo. Clearly jumbo can snap at people, and I believe it. I think he has failed as a leader his entire career and getting rid of him will hurt on the ice, but could be tremendous for a fresh start in terms of chemistry.

If dougie and Hasso are serious about the youth movement, then the big two have gotta go in exchange for young assets, preferably at D. Cooch or Pavs have to wear the C. Greater PP minutes and prime time should go to guys like hertl, wingels, nieto and co. Stalock, dell or whoever needs to get at least 30-40 starts. The youth need to officially, unequivocably, and absolutely be given the reins of the team. Might they suck for a year or two? Yes. But the development will be faster, better, and most importantly, I think the chemistry will return.

To me, clearly, patty and jumbo add to the negative drama and hurt the whole franchise. A new GM still isnt likely to come in a compete for the cup, and more losing will just perpetuate the issues they already have while missing out on getting assets for the future.
 

Cbrower91

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Pavelski
Wilson isnt the problem. The big two are 36 years old, the two highest paid players in the team, neither is a leader, and neither is consistent or known for good efforts or playing when it matters. Jumbo>>>Marleau but still he's not himself from the late 2000's. Both a great depth players on a team with established leadership and someone else to carry the face of the franchise.

Wilson has made some questionable signings and could be guilty of overloyalty, and certainly gross mismanagement of last season's debacle. For that, perhaps he should be canned. On the other hand, you gotta tip your hat to what he has accomplished in the 10 years prior without the draft assets.

I believe that they can keep Tmac and Wilson and compete in the PO's for the next decade if they can ditch the big two. Patty has proven himself unreliably, inconsistent, and frankly a giant pouting pussy. he's been that for his whole career and now that he is old, his decline is remarkable. Jumbo has obviously pissed off a fair number of people, not just wilson, and now Tmac. Wilson didnt mention names, but obviously he didnt make up what he said about jumbo. Clearly jumbo can snap at people, and I believe it. I think he has failed as a leader his entire career and getting rid of him will hurt on the ice, but could be tremendous for a fresh start in terms of chemistry.

If dougie and Hasso are serious about the youth movement, then the big two have gotta go in exchange for young assets, preferably at D. Cooch or Pavs have to wear the C. Greater PP minutes and prime time should go to guys like hertl, wingels, nieto and co. Stalock, dell or whoever needs to get at least 30-40 starts. The youth need to officially, unequivocably, and absolutely be given the reins of the team. Might they suck for a year or two? Yes. But the development will be faster, better, and most importantly, I think the chemistry will return.

To me, clearly, patty and jumbo add to the negative drama and hurt the whole franchise. A new GM still isnt likely to come in a compete for the cup, and more losing will just perpetuate the issues they already have while missing out on getting assets for the future.

Pavelski without Thornton=40pnt player, Patty had a terrible year and i wouldnt put stock into anything Kurz says, and when Roomenda isnt at all bitter for getting shit canned, that being said i guess hes being honest in his opinion weather its based in fact or not is another story. So patty in a terrible year was still good enough for 57pnts which still puts him in the top 50 in the league in scoring not to mention the art ross winner had what 87points in a career year, scoring as a whole was down this year. But put that in perspective a shitty year and he was only 30 ponints away from the art ross winner, alot of players would kill for that kind of bad year. Im not saying i expect a huge upswing in points out of public enemy number 1 in your books but back to the 60-65pnt range 30-30 type season is highly likely, unless Couture finally turns the corner, then he could hit 70 again
 

Cbrower91

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Wilson isnt the problem. The big two are 36 years old, the two highest paid players in the team, neither is a leader, and neither is consistent or known for good efforts or playing when it matters. Jumbo>>>Marleau but still he's not himself from the late 2000's. Both a great depth players on a team with established leadership and someone else to carry the face of the franchise.

Wilson has made some questionable signings and could be guilty of overloyalty, and certainly gross mismanagement of last season's debacle. For that, perhaps he should be canned. On the other hand, you gotta tip your hat to what he has accomplished in the 10 years prior without the draft assets.

I believe that they can keep Tmac and Wilson and compete in the PO's for the next decade if they can ditch the big two. Patty has proven himself unreliably, inconsistent, and frankly a giant pouting pussy. he's been that for his whole career and now that he is old, his decline is remarkable. Jumbo has obviously pissed off a fair number of people, not just wilson, and now Tmac. Wilson didnt mention names, but obviously he didnt make up what he said about jumbo. Clearly jumbo can snap at people, and I believe it. I think he has failed as a leader his entire career and getting rid of him will hurt on the ice, but could be tremendous for a fresh start in terms of chemistry.

If dougie and Hasso are serious about the youth movement, then the big two have gotta go in exchange for young assets, preferably at D. Cooch or Pavs have to wear the C. Greater PP minutes and prime time should go to guys like hertl, wingels, nieto and co. Stalock, dell or whoever needs to get at least 30-40 starts. The youth need to officially, unequivocably, and absolutely be given the reins of the team. Might they suck for a year or two? Yes. But the development will be faster, better, and most importantly, I think the chemistry will return.

To me, clearly, patty and jumbo add to the negative drama and hurt the whole franchise. A new GM still isnt likely to come in a compete for the cup, and more losing will just perpetuate the issues they already have while missing out on getting assets for the future.

Pavelski without Thornton=40pnt player, Patty had a terrible year and i wouldnt put stock into anything Kurz says, and Roomenda isnt at all bitter for getting shit canned, that being said i guess hes being honest in his opinion wether its based in fact or not is another story. So patty in a terrible year was still good enough for 57pnts which still puts him in the top 50 in the league in scoring not to mention the art ross winner had what 87points in a career year, scoring as a whole was down this year. But put that in perspective a shitty year and he was only 30 ponints away from the art ross winner, alot of players would kill for that kind of bad year. Im not saying i expect a huge upswing in points out of public enemy number 1 in your books but back to the 60-65pnt range 30-30 type season is highly likely, unless Couture finally turns the corner, then he could hit 70 again
 

RaiderZar

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Those Thorntons will score no goals because no one wants to shoot the puck but will complain to the press about how people aren't treating him well enough. Here's the world's smallest violin playing just for Mr. Entitled.

1 Toews is worth 100 Thorntons.
Yep. So, by my calculations, 1 Toews is worth 1000 Marleaus. Sounds about right.
 

Cmon_WTF

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A young forward I've mentioned a couple times before, Artem Panarin, is set to become a FA from St. Petersburg SKA in the KHL on April 30th. Yesterday he turned down a contract to become the 2nd highest paid player on the richest team in the KHL stating he's looking to play in the NHL. If he comes to the NHL he will be cost controlled as he is only eligible to sign a 2 year ELC just like undrafted college players. That means no monetary bidding war for him.

IMHO this kid has the skill set to be the perfect winger for either Thornton/Pavelski or the Couture/Marleau line. He's called the "Patrick Kane of the KHL" though I think Jaden Schwartz and Nikita Kucherov are better comparables for him and he is arguably as skilled if not more so than both those players.
 

Cbrower91

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Looks like Hiller might be available, I think that would be a good trade moderate cap hit for a very solid starting goalie who's got some consistency to his game
 
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