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Rule V draft

LHG

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My understanding of it (today) is to force teams to start a players clock. If the clock starts upon initial signing, or FA is automatic at age 29 (or whatever age), that completely eliminates the need for this draft.
Most guys drafted are well less than 29 years old and are typically in the first year of eligibility to be drafted. Not sure what you are referring to would eliminate the need for this draft. However, I'm not surprised if the owners do want to eliminate it.
 

calsnowskier

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Most guys drafted are well less than 29 years old and are typically in the first year of eligibility to be drafted. Not sure what you are referring to would eliminate the need for this draft. However, I'm not surprised if the owners do want to eliminate it.
If the clock starts at time of initial signing instead of when a player is added to the 40, than the Rule V (which forces teams to add their better prospects to the 40) loses its point.

I understand that the history of the Rule V is a little different. It was originally in place to prevent teams from stockpiling MLB talent in the minors. But with FA, that reason is essentially antiquated.
 

LHG

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There will be a Rule 5 Draft tomorrow, but not a full draft. As per the article, only the minor league portion of the draft will occur. One name of guys taken in the minor league portion of the draft, that the article doesn't mention, is John Brebbia. He was drafted by the Cardinals from the Diamondbacks in 2015.

 

LHG

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Here are the results from the Rule 5 draft, minor league portion, that was held today:
Drafted from Giants: Conner Menez, Matt Seelinger, John Nogowski, Vince Fernandez, Jacob Gonzalez, Jon Duplantier
Surprising to see Menez, Nogowski and Duplantier taken in the minor league draft. I would have thought the Giants would have protected them on the AAA roster.
Fernandez was drafted by the Giants in last year's minor league portion of the Rule 5 draft. Hope he gets a better shot with the Athletics. I liked him as a hitter and thought he should have been in AAA in 2021.
How far has Jacob Gonzalez fallen. I'm surprised to see him on this list, then not surprised, then surprised again. That should sum up his time in the Giants' farm.

Drafted by Giants: Michael Gigliotti
The Giants seem to like picking off the Rays' leftovers. Nothing much to be excited about him. He was an on base machine in college and was a 4th round pick by the Royals in 2017. He continued to show high on base with them, until he got a chance to play in high A ball, where he struggled big time, both in 2019 with the Royals and 2021 with the Rays. Now, he'll be 26 years old going into 2022 and slotting into a crowded outfield in high A ball (assuming the Giants don't just bump him up to AA, which should also be crowded). Not sure why this pick was necessary. Couldn't they have looked for a pitcher to reform?
 

calsnowskier

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I have no clue how Duplantier could have possibly been taken. He is a AAAA type player. Could it be that the Giants just didn’t assign him to a roster at all yet, thus making him avail? I have no idea how this minor league portion of the draft works, so I can’t even begin to propose a theory.

It sucks to lose Menez, but at the end of the day, I think we saw what he was, and that isn’t what he hoped he would be.

Not sure I have ever herd Seelinger’s name before now, so…. DAMN! HOW COULD LOSE THAT GUY? FIRE FZ!!!!!
 

LHG

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I have no clue how Duplantier could have possibly been taken. He is a AAAA type player. Could it be that the Giants just didn’t assign him to a roster at all yet, thus making him avail? I have no idea how this minor league portion of the draft works, so I can’t even begin to propose a theory.

It sucks to lose Menez, but at the end of the day, I think we saw what he was, and that isn’t what he hoped he would be.

Not sure I have ever herd Seelinger’s name before now, so…. DAMN! HOW COULD LOSE THAT GUY? FIRE FZ!!!!!
Each organization has a "38 man roster" for AAA and puts their players on that roster that they want to protect from the minor league portion. Obviously, this 38 man roster is on top of the 40 man roster for the parent clubs. That roster, to my knowledge, does not get published, at least not for the general public. I checked the RiverCats' website and they don't list nearly close to 38 players on their roster. I assume eligibility to be drafted in the minor league portion is the same as in the major league portion (not on 40 man roster, at least 4 to 5 years of service since signing, depending on age at time of signing), with the added rule that the players eligible are not on that 2nd roster as well.

I find it intriguing that 6 players were taken with major league experience. I haven't done the research but would guess that is much more than normal for the minor league portion of the draft. Still find it weird the Giants would sign a player, only to leave him exposed to this draft. I wonder if the Giants were not expecting guys with big league experience would get drafted, as half the guys with big league experience came from the Giants.

Oh, and minor league draftees don't have to meet any roster requirements to stay with their new orgs. They pretty stay there until they are traded, released or become a minor league free agent.
 

calsnowskier

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Each organization has a "38 man roster" for AAA and puts their players on that roster that they want to protect from the minor league portion. Obviously, this 38 man roster is on top of the 40 man roster for the parent clubs. That roster, to my knowledge, does not get published, at least not for the general public. I checked the RiverCats' website and they don't list nearly close to 38 players on their roster. I assume eligibility to be drafted in the minor league portion is the same as in the major league portion (not on 40 man roster, at least 4 to 5 years of service since signing, depending on age at time of signing), with the added rule that the players eligible are not on that 2nd roster as well.

I find it intriguing that 6 players were taken with major league experience. I haven't done the research but would guess that is much more than normal for the minor league portion of the draft. Still find it weird the Giants would sign a player, only to leave him exposed to this draft. I wonder if the Giants were not expecting guys with big league experience would get drafted, as half the guys with big league experience came from the Giants.

Oh, and minor league draftees don't have to meet any roster requirements to stay with their new orgs. They pretty stay there until they are traded, released or become a minor league free agent.
You have questioned in the past if the Giants are making some roster “mistakes” with some of the odd things that have happened in the last few years. I have had a hard time believing that was possible, even though the things that have happened have been beyond explanation (by little, ol’ ignorant me, at least). But losing Duplantier like this screams “FUCK UP”. Not that it is a franchise-altering fuck up by any means, but I just don’t see how it is possible.
 

LHG

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You have questioned in the past if the Giants are making some roster “mistakes” with some of the odd things that have happened in the last few years. I have had a hard time believing that was possible, even though the things that have happened have been beyond explanation (by little, ol’ ignorant me, at least). But losing Duplantier like this screams “FUCK UP”. Not that it is a franchise-altering fuck up by any means, but I just don’t see how it is possible.
And let me be direct on this - all organizations make mistakes, even world championship caliber organizations. I'm not advocating that FZ and Co don't know what they are doing or that they should be fired. I just don't understand the reasons why some things happen (or don't happen). I acknowledge that I don't have access to everything that they do but there are times that it looks dumb from the beginning and then the ending is exactly as I thought it would be at the beginning and I just shake my head and think "what was the point?" But, there are probably more where I'm the idiot in what I thought would happen doesn't happen. That's probably why I'm not a GM, but I can only guess. I mean, why else wouldn't the Pirates not hire me to run their organization?

On a related note, the Giants got another Rule 5 draftee today, and he fits the criteria the Giants seem to love in Rule 5 pitchers, he's on rehab from TJ surgery. I wonder if they would have taken him in the major league portion, had they gotten the chance - Giants Acquire Tanner Andrews From Braves
 

filosofy29

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And let me be direct on this - all organizations make mistakes, even world championship caliber organizations. I'm not advocating that FZ and Co don't know what they are doing or that they should be fired. I just don't understand the reasons why some things happen (or don't happen). I acknowledge that I don't have access to everything that they do but there are times that it looks dumb from the beginning and then the ending is exactly as I thought it would be at the beginning and I just shake my head and think "what was the point?" But, there are probably more where I'm the idiot in what I thought would happen doesn't happen. That's probably why I'm not a GM, but I can only guess. I mean, why else wouldn't the Pirates not hire me to run their organization?

On a related note, the Giants got another Rule 5 draftee today, and he fits the criteria the Giants seem to love in Rule 5 pitchers, he's on rehab from TJ surgery. I wonder if they would have taken him in the major league portion, had they gotten the chance - Giants Acquire Tanner Andrews From Braves
Like the Jeff Samardzija contract. #stillbitter
 

calsnowskier

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Like the Jeff Samardzija contract. #stillbitter
I bent myself into a pretzel to like that signing. He was a #3 (at best) coming off a one-off season as a #1, and was paid like a lower-end #1.

Not sure the money could have been better spent elsewhere, so I kinda grasp to that.
 

pachyderm

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I bent myself into a pretzel to like that signing. He was a #3 (at best) coming off a one-off season as a #1, and was paid like a lower-end #1.

Not sure the money could have been better spent elsewhere, so I kinda grasp to that.
Won a WS despite him...

oh, wait...
 

SF11704

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Never happy with that signing.
But for me Scrabble was a complete puzzle. He'd pitch a game and look like a real time #1 pitcher. Almost unhittable. The next time out he would be raked for 3 homers in 2 inning and never make it to the 4th inning. Quite a few 5 and out. For me he never had any real consistency. Most times he struggled but he'd always come back with some sort of a stellar performance and the dsmn leash would be extended for another couple of starts.
 

MarcoPolo

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Each organization has a "38 man roster" for AAA and puts their players on that roster that they want to protect from the minor league portion. Obviously, this 38 man roster is on top of the 40 man roster for the parent clubs. That roster, to my knowledge, does not get published, at least not for the general public. I checked the RiverCats' website and they don't list nearly close to 38 players on their roster. I assume eligibility to be drafted in the minor league portion is the same as in the major league portion (not on 40 man roster, at least 4 to 5 years of service since signing, depending on age at time of signing), with the added rule that the players eligible are not on that 2nd roster as well.

That is how I understand it as well. For this year, international or high school Draft picks signed in 2017 -- assuming the player was 18 or younger as of June 8 of that year -- had to be protected. A college player taken in the 2018 Draft was in the same position.

For the Minor League phase, any player not protected on a 38-man Triple-A roster from that same group can be selected. Any team with a full 38-man Triple-A roster is not allowed to make a selection, but teams can make as many picks as they want until they get to 38 players.
 

calsnowskier

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So why did the Giants sign Duplantier BEFORE the draft? If they wanted him, and presumably he wanted the Giants, why not wait 4 days? Makes zero sense.
 

LHG

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So why did the Giants sign Duplantier BEFORE the draft? If they wanted him, and presumably he wanted the Giants, why not wait 4 days? Makes zero sense.
Maybe FZ missed the dfa carousel from previous offseasons and wanted to get and gamble losing a player within a week's time. :noidea:
 

pachyderm

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Never happy with that signing.
But for me Scrabble was a complete puzzle. He'd pitch a game and look like a real time #1 pitcher. Almost unhittable. The next time out he would be raked for 3 homers in 2 inning and never make it to the 4th inning. Quite a few 5 and out. For me he never had any real consistency. Most times he struggled but he'd always come back with some sort of a stellar performance and the dsmn leash would be extended for another couple of starts.
Dammit.

We just now came up with "Scrabble"...?
 
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