Reimagining...

[NWinAZ]

If this is really all about retooling or whatever the buzz word of the day is and not just an excuse by JD and ownership to buy 3 or 4 pressure less years from the fans, then it is time to let all the kids play.

Post A.S. break this is the roster I would like to see and I really don't care what we get for the guys that need to be moved on since I think there is little value in them at least with JD doing the shopping.

C - Status quo.
1B- White (Time to see what the kid is made of first time through the bigs)
2B- Long (Like his makeup. Doesn't scare easy and goes hard. Give him the job already)
3B- Beckham (Only because that means Seager has been traded. I don't think we have a 3B of the future)
SS- Crawford (This might be the best get this off season if things continue on the same path for the kid)
LF- Smith
CF- Bishop (If healthy, he deserves another full time go)
RF- Fraley (New nothing about him before the trade have loved him ever since the trade..& yes this means Haniger is gone...maybe for the 3B of the present)
DH- Vogelbach

Bench: Santana to mix in regularly at DH and RF. Whatever catcher that isn't starting. Two utility guys that don't need every day playing time.

As far as pitching goes, I don't think we have a SP ready for full time load and who is ready for the jump. I never liked Sheffield so I would rather regain some value in minors and ship him off to another fool. Maybe give Swanson another shot but he reminds me of every other M's pitching prospect over the last 5 years.

I do like the future potential of Dunn, Carlson, and Gilbert though but they are next year to 2021 still away.

Let me know where I screed up.

 

[NWinAZ]

And a nice little writeup on the youngsters.

mariners-prospect-rankings-kelenic-jake-fraley-logan-gilbert-sheffield-kirby

 

[SeattleCoug]

Yea I have been clamoring to give Bishop a shot in CF. Whenever they have had him up here, they only platoon him vs lefties which is dumb. He is the best defensive OF they have on the 40 man right now so having them out there can only help the pitching.

Would be nice for Gordon and Seagar to go but who knows the scenario in which that happens. Both guys arent doing much which isnt suprising and since they already ate alot of the Bruce contract which caused them to sell Encarnacion essentially, I'm not sure what they can do there. I'd rather see Long up here tho.

 

[wazzu31]

What is the new date or appearances to get a year of service time? I think Fraley will end up on the roster by September but I can’t see them calling him up to sit Santana along I doubt they could even deal Haniger. I agree with Beckham to 3B. I wanted that at the beginning of the year when he couldn’t go a game without an error at SS.

 

[NWinAZ]

I agree with Beckham to 3B. I wanted that at the beginning of the year when he couldn’t go a game without an error at SS.

I only picked Beckham because the only other option I saw was Dylan Moore and I can't watch him hack at any more pitches. He is brutal.

I think Fraley will end up on the roster by September but I can’t see them calling him up to sit Santana

I wouldn't call him up to sit him either. Move Santana to his best defense position (DH), and let Voggy play 1B. I wanted to see White up, but he may be a year away from that.

Let the kids play!!!

 

[seahawksfan234]

If this is really all about retooling or whatever the buzz word of the day is and not just an excuse by JD and ownership to buy 3 or 4 pressure less years from the fans, then it is time to let all the kids play.

Post A.S. break this is the roster I would like to see and I really don't care what we get for the guys that need to be moved on since I think there is little value in them at least with JD doing the shopping.

C - Status quo.
1B- White (Time to see what the kid is made of first time through the bigs)
2B- Long (Like his makeup. Doesn't scare easy and goes hard. Give him the job already)
3B- Beckham (Only because that means Seager has been traded. I don't think we have a 3B of the future)
SS- Crawford (This might be the best get this off season if things continue on the same path for the kid)
LF- Smith
CF- Bishop (If healthy, he deserves another full time go)
RF- Fraley (New nothing about him before the trade have loved him ever since the trade..& yes this means Haniger is gone...maybe for the 3B of the present)
DH- Vogelbach

Bench: Santana to mix in regularly at DH and RF. Whatever catcher that isn't starting. Two utility guys that don't need every day playing time.

As far as pitching goes, I don't think we have a SP ready for full time load and who is ready for the jump. I never liked Sheffield so I would rather regain some value in minors and ship him off to another fool. Maybe give Swanson another shot but he reminds me of every other M's pitching prospect over the last 5 years.

I do like the future potential of Dunn, Carlson, and Gilbert though but they are next year to 2021 still away.

Let me know where I screed up.

I don't know how badly a prospect can be fucked up by being rushed to the majors since it obviously varies by position but I'll give my thoughts:

C- Status quo: Agreed.
1B - Evan White: He has been hitting the cover off the ball since he came back from his injury. That being said, idk. I think he deserves a promotion to AAA so he can get some more seasoning before coming up, but that leads to my first point about not being sure regarding the risks of promoting a prospect early. Also if Ryon Healy can come back healthy and somehow net us something in return, that would be nice.
2B - Long: Agreed assuming that Dee Gordon is traded. I'd rather keep Shed Long getting regular ABs in AAA as long as Dee Gordon is on the roster. Using him in a utility role could perhaps hamper his development.
3B - Beckham: I disagree here for two reasons: (1) I believe Kyle Seager is untradeable due to his salary relative to his performance. It's also worth noting that the 2024 option becomes fully guaranteed if he is traded which also diminishes his trade value. Even if he goes back to the 2016 Kyle Seager, I think he'd be hard to move. (2) There is a strong possibility that Beckham gets traded (hopefully).
SS - Crawford: Agreed.
LF - Smith: Despite his early seasons struggles I think he's capable of playing CF.
CF - Bishop: If you include Bishop in the lineup, he's probably the better centerfielder so I agree here.
RF - Fraley: I think he will get a call up eventually, but then this goes back to our conversations on what to do with Haniger.
DH - Vogelbach/Santana: Vogelbach has been killing it against righties but has been abysmal against lefties. Given the offensive production that Santana has given us I think we would be wasting him by regulating him to a platoon role, although a Vogelbach/Santana platoon at DH would really give some really great production.

I should probably get back to work.

 

[NWinAZ]

1B - Evan White: He has been hitting the cover off the ball since he came back from his injury. That being said, idk. I think he deserves a promotion to AAA so he can get some more seasoning before coming up, but that leads to my first point about not being sure regarding the risks of promoting a prospect early. Also if Ryon Healy can come back healthy and somehow net us something in return, that would be nice.

I changed my mind on him in a later post. I think he may be a year away from getting a shot. I thought he was 25 by now, but he is only 23.

2B - Long: Agreed assuming that Dee Gordon is traded. I'd rather keep Shed Long getting regular ABs in AAA as long as Dee Gordon is on the roster. Using him in a utility role could perhaps hamper his development.

I don't want any of these kids up on a utility basis. Full time or nothing. As far as Gordon goes, eat his salary and open up a spot for Long. You have to pay him either way.

3B - Beckham: I disagree here for two reasons: (1) I believe Kyle Seager is untradeable due to his salary relative to his performance. It's also worth noting that the 2024 option becomes fully guaranteed if he is traded which also diminishes his trade value. Even if he goes back to the 2016 Kyle Seager, I think he'd be hard to move. (2) There is a strong possibility that Beckham gets traded (hopefully).

I think they would have to eat 90-95% of his salary. As far as the trade kicker goes, I go to him and tell him to either wave it or he becomes the new utility player. Just like Gordon, you have to pay him either way so open up a spot and cut your losses.

I dislike Beckham, but I like I said on another post later he or Dylan Moore are the choices and he is actually a tiny bit better than Moore.

RF - Fraley: I think he will get a call up eventually, but then this goes back to our conversations on what to do with Haniger.

Ya it is all based on trading Haniger and at full value. If yo can't do that, then they have to decide between him and Bishop for the call up.

DH - Vogelbach/Santana: Vogelbach has been killing it against righties but has been abysmal against lefties. Given the offensive production that Santana has given us I think we would be wasting him by regulating him to a platoon role, although a Vogelbach/Santana platoon at DH would really give some really great production.

Now that I reversed course with White, I play Vogued at 1B (nothing to lose) and DH Santana giving him spot starts in RF to keep him engaged in the game.

As for Healy, I really doubt he has value anymore. I know KC wanted him last year, but I doubt it was for much. If they could package a deal for that Mondesi kid with KC, wow! Play him at 2B and use Long for the new 3B and I could live with that. KC won't deal him which is smart on their part.

 

[NWinAZ]

An article on trading Gordon:

Examining Dee Gordon to the Dodgers

 

[SeattleCoug]

An article on trading Gordon:

Examining Dee Gordon to the Dodgers

That would be a decent fit. I actually manage to see more of them then the Mariners and they have Muncy playing 2nd most nights who isnt really a 2nd baseman.

 

[wazzu31]

I only picked Beckham because the only other option I saw was Dylan Moore and I can't watch him hack at any more pitches. He is brutal.



I wouldn't call him up to sit him either. Move Santana to his best defense position (DH), and let Voggy play 1B. I wanted to see White up, but he may be a year away from that.

Let the kids play!!!

I still like Beckham, he just isn’t an everyday SS. Ideally Seager could be dealt and he would be my choice to be the filler until they figure out a long term plan for 3B.

I can get that thought, I just don’t think Vogelbach is a viable 1B. Especially if his offensive workload is going to increase. I’d rather him just have trying to hit lefties on his plate than that and playing the field at an average level.

 

[seahawksfan234]

The format you did it in is much easier to read than I did. I'll try to replicate that and even though I'm a millennial I still fuck up with this shit.

I changed my mind on him in a later post. I think he may be a year away from getting a shot. I thought he was 25 by now, but he is only 23.

Sorry I missed that. I responded to your original post before reading any of the others. I think most projections have him possibly contending for a MLB spot by 2020. If Ryon Healy is still on the roster at that point, I think they'll probably trot him out at 1B until they're able to move him.

I don't want any of these kids up on a utility basis. Full time or nothing. As far as Gordon goes, eat his salary and open up a spot for Long. You have to pay him either way.

Agreed on the first part. I wouldn't want to stunt development by having them sit on the bench. Long is better off in AAA than he is as a utility guy. Some people think that he projects as a utility player, but I hold a higher opinion of him than that and I think you need to see him in a regular before you can immediately regulate him to a utility role.

Regarding Gordon, by "eat his salary" I'm assuming you mean in a trade, which I agree with. I wouldn't want to just cut him because they could at the very minimum receive a lottery ticket for him if they eat the entire salary. I think he has more value than Bruce given his ability to play 2B, SS and OF. At the very minimum I think he'd be a great utility player in the NL given his leadership, position versatility and the threat he poses on the base paths.

I think they would have to eat 90-95% of his salary. As far as the trade kicker goes, I go to him and tell him to either wave it or he becomes the new utility player. Just like Gordon, you have to pay him either way so open up a spot and cut your losses.

I dislike Beckham, but I like I said on another post later he or Dylan Moore are the choices and he is actually a tiny bit better than Moore.

Hmmm... That's tough. It's a lot of money to eat and I don't really care about the ownership's money, but that could be the right move. If Stanton's comments to the Seattle Times aren't bullshit (they probably are) then the organization might be able to stomach it. If they ate that much of his contract, I think he could actually be a somewhat valuable trade chip if he starts to show promise - which hasn't happened yet.

Regarding forcing him to waive that option, if I'm Kyle Seager I wouldn't do that in a million years. With his current level of production, he's not remotely worth that much money and the only way I think he would do that is out of charity to a billionaire owner or if he really wants to get the fuck out of Seattle.

Ya it is all based on trading Haniger and at full value. If yo can't do that, then they have to decide between him and Bishop for the call up.

Fraley is playing really well down in Tacoma right now, but I think Bishop is more major league ready. Not really much to argue on here because if Haniger is gone, Bishop and/or Fraley would be the replacement under the conditions that you proposed.

Now that I reversed course with White, I play Vogued at 1B (nothing to lose) and DH Santana giving him spot starts in RF to keep him engaged in the game.

As for Healy, I really doubt he has value anymore. I know KC wanted him last year, but I doubt it was for much. If they could package a deal for that Mondesi kid with KC, wow! Play him at 2B and use Long for the new 3B and I could live with that. KC won't deal him which is smart on their part.

I think Healy could generate at least a minimal amount of value. He's cheap, hits home runs which is all the rage these days and if he goes on one of his hot streaks he could artificially boost his value to a team dumb enough to think he has turned things around. He was awful at third, but he does offer some positional versatility if a team is desperate since he has experience there.

 

[seahawksfan234]

An article on trading Gordon:

Examining Dee Gordon to the Dodgers

I think that's fairly reasonable. Unfortunately the option the Mariners will be the one that eats a lot of money and receives someone we will never hear of again.

 

[seahawksfan234]

I still like Beckham, he just isn’t an everyday SS. Ideally Seager could be dealt and he would be my choice to be the filler until they figure out a long term plan for 3B.

I can get that thought, I just don’t think Vogelbach is a viable 1B. Especially if his offensive workload is going to increase. I’d rather him just have trying to hit lefties on his plate than that and playing the field at an average level.

I think Beckham has value as a utility player but I believe he's a free agent after the end of the season so I think he has more value for us as a trade chip.

I agree that I wouldn't want Vogelbach at first. I don't know if there is a correlation between injury risk and body fat percentage, but I think you get that point. Even if he were to shed 30lbs of fat and somehow became a great athlete, he just doesn't have the reach to play that position. He's listed at 6'0 but I've noticed that baseball height listings are quite generous from what I've observed personally.

Ideally I would use some sort of platoon with Vogelbach at DH. His numbers against righties are fantastic but his numbers against lefties are abysmal.

 

[NWinAZ]

I agree that I wouldn't want Vogelbach at first. I don't know if there is a correlation between injury risk and body fat percentage,

To quote the great George Brett, "You never heard of anyone pulling fat".

 

[wazzu31]

To quote the great George Brett, "You never heard of anyone pulling fat".

No, obviously joking, but if a fielder makes a bad throw to 1B it can either be an error or torn hamstring or quad. Though I did see that in a beer league softball tournament.

 

[NWinAZ]

No, obviously joking, but if a fielder makes a bad throw to 1B it can either be an error or torn hamstring or quad. Though I did see that in a beer league softball tournament.

I wouldn't worry about Voggy he has flexibility.

 

[wazzu31]

I wouldn't worry about Voggy he has flexibility.

View attachment 209471

So essentially throwing darts to 1B except a 10 is an error.

 

[seahawksfan234]

To quote the great George Brett, "You never heard of anyone pulling fat".

That's true.

On a serious note, when I was in good shape I didn't have as many aches and pains from doing shit like helping someone move, going on a hike... grabbing a beer... etc. I'd assume that a guy with Vogelbach's "physique" playing on a regular basis would suffer more of those minor injuries that wouldn't warrant sitting out, but could hamper performance.

 

[wazzu31]

That's true.

On a serious note, when I was in good shape I didn't have as many aches and pains from doing shit like helping someone move, going on a hike... grabbing a beer... etc. I'd assume that a guy with Vogelbach's "physique" playing on a regular basis would suffer more of those minor injuries that wouldn't warrant sitting out, but could hamper performance.

Ya, but some bigger guys are in shape on the inside not necessarily appearance wise. There are a crap load of offensive and defensive lineman in the NFL that could out sprint dudes who look like they are in shape. A lot of stuff is muscle memory, Vogelbach has a weird ass swing that would get most kids cut from a tryout but he has done it so much that it works. Kind of like his size he has dealt with his whole life so I’m sure he can handle it ten times better than you’re average dude who balloons up to that size. It’s kind of like the whole BS line of perfect practice makes one perfect, it’s perfect practice for who you are that makes perfect.