Question for the Old Timers

[Robotech]

I just finished watching NBA Finals Game 6 on You Tube. Celtics defeated the Rockets to win their 16th NBA title. Towards the end of the game, one of the announcers mentions that Danny Ainge's development was one of the reasons the Celtics felt they could trade away Gerald Henderson. They ended up getting Seattle's 1st round draft pick, which ended up being the number two pick.

We all know that didn't end up working out for the Celtics, as Len Bias tragically died, but I was wondering how the Celtics were able to get the Sonics' first round pick for Gerald Henderson. Was Gerald Henderson regarded as one of the best players in the league back then? Were the Sonics expected to do much better in the 1985-1986 season? They finished 31-51 in 1984-1985, and they wound up finishing 31-51 again in 1985-1986.

I didn't start following the NBA until the 1986-1987 season, and even then, I was only 7 years old, and I didn't even know who Gerald Henderson was.

 

[BigKen]

Henderson was having a great year. He was starting many games and when he wasn't he was fantastic coming off the bench. He was 6'2" and the smallest and fastest PG on the Celtics but Ainge really started coming on and Henderson wasn't getting on the floor as much. He was also competing with Dennis Johnson and a new phenom named Carlos Clark who fizzled and was gone after two years. Seattle had a serious need for a PG and was willing to take a chance. Henderson didn't pan out and was traded to Toronto after two years. He was good enough to play a little more than 10 years in the NBA.

 

[Robotech]

Thanks. I always look fondly to those years because that's when I started being a sports fan, but I didn't have the sports knowledge then that I have now. I think I first learned about Len Bias some time in the late '80s or early '90s when my dad told me that the Celtics would be in much better shape if this guy they drafted didn't tragically die. He said that the Celtics could've rested Bird more and that Bird maybe wouldn't have back problems. Man, if Bias became the player many thought he could be, what a lopsided trade that would've been.

 

[tlance]

I just finished watching NBA Finals Game 6 on You Tube. Celtics defeated the Rockets to win their 16th NBA title. Towards the end of the game, one of the announcers mentions that Danny Ainge's development was one of the reasons the Celtics felt they could trade away Gerald Henderson. They ended up getting Seattle's 1st round draft pick, which ended up being the number two pick.

We all know that didn't end up working out for the Celtics, as Len Bias tragically died, but I was wondering how the Celtics were able to get the Sonics' first round pick for Gerald Henderson. Was Gerald Henderson regarded as one of the best players in the league back then? Were the Sonics expected to do much better in the 1985-1986 season? They finished 31-51 in 1984-1985, and they wound up finishing 31-51 again in 1985-1986.

I didn't start following the NBA until the 1986-1987 season, and even then, I was only 7 years old, and I didn't even know who Gerald Henderson was.

There was also some Ridiculously bad mismanagement of assets back in that era. Draft picks were not treated by all as super valuable commodities. The smart teams like the Celtics did.

But while Gerald Henderson was a solid player, if a guy like that gets traded for a pick today it comes heavily protected. Some of the trades in that era will make your head spin if you consider how young talent and picks are valued today.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

There was also some Ridiculously bad mismanagement of assets back in that era. Draft picks were not treated by all as super valuable commodities. The smart teams like the Celtics did.

But while Gerald Henderson was a solid player, if a guy like that gets traded for a pick today it comes heavily protected. Some of the trades in that era will make your head spin if you consider how young talent and picks are valued today.

Didn't realize till you just brought that up & did a little research. One of the biggest moves that shaped the history of the NBA happened during the mid-late 70s when the Jazz signed an aging Gail Goodrich. As part of the compensation a trade was made which gave the Lakers the Jazz' first overall pick which turned out to be Magic Johnson. Without that move Johnson could have been playing initially in NO & ultimately in Utah. Who knows how the NBA would have unfolded in that case.

 

[Robotech]

Didn't realize till you just brought that up & did a little research. One of the biggest moves that shaped the history of the NBA happened during the mid-late 70s when the Jazz signed an aging Gail Goodrich. As part of the compensation a trade was made which gave the Lakers the Jazz' first overall pick which turned out to be Magic Johnson. Without that move Johnson could have been playing initially in NO & ultimately in Utah. Who knows how the NBA would have unfolded in that case.

It seems like the Celtics and Lakers fleeced teams back then when it came to trading for picks and young players.

 

[Robotech]

I didn't know that about the Jazz pick and Magic Johnson, but I have read about the Cavs trading a pick to the Lakers that became the number 1 pick l, which they used to select James Worthy. Also, I read about how the Celtics got Robert Parish from the Warriors.

 

[Robotech]

There was also some Ridiculously bad mismanagement of assets back in that era. Draft picks were not treated by all as super valuable commodities. The smart teams like the Celtics did.

But while Gerald Henderson was a solid player, if a guy like that gets traded for a pick today it comes heavily protected. Some of the trades in that era will make your head spin if you consider how young talent and picks are valued today.

Yeah, true, no team today would risk losing a pick that could potentially be the number 2 pick, unless they're getting a superstar back.

 

[The Oldtimer]

Didn't realize till you just brought that up & did a little research. One of the biggest moves that shaped the history of the NBA happened during the mid-late 70s when the Jazz signed an aging Gail Goodrich. As part of the compensation a trade was made which gave the Lakers the Jazz' first overall pick which turned out to be Magic Johnson. Without that move Johnson could have been playing initially in NO & ultimately in Utah. Who knows how the NBA would have unfolded in that case.

Good comment. Magic and Bird changed the NBA (in a good way) forever.

 

[SoCalWizFan]

It seems like the Celtics and Lakers fleeced teams back then when it came to trading for picks and young players.

Los Angeles Lakers: The five best trades in franchise history

Wow - dug a little more & was amazed at how the Lakers have fleeced teams in the past via trade. They acquired the rights to Worthy, Kobe, Wilt & Jabbar & gave up practically nothing in return. Most of the players sent in return are basically answers to trivia questions.

The closest one of those trades that sort of made sense at the time was trading Vlade for Kobe since Kobe was a HS player & that was definitely considered a risk at the time (not in hindsight).

Not sure if I agree that the Gasol trade was that much of a steal since the Grizzlies did get Marc Gasol in return & he thrived on Memphis.

 

[shopson67]

Los Angeles Lakers: The five best trades in franchise history

Wow - dug a little more & was amazed at how the Lakers have fleeced teams in the past via trade. They acquired the rights to Worthy, Kobe, Wilt & Jabbar & gave up practically nothing in return. Most of the players sent in return are basically answers to trivia questions.

The closest one of those trades that sort of made sense at the time was trading Vlade for Kobe since Kobe was a HS player & that was definitely considered a risk at the time (not in hindsight).

Not sure if I agree that the Gasol trade was that much of a steal since the Grizzlies did get Marc Gasol in return & he thrived on Memphis.

That's how most trades seem once there is enough time elapsed. Draft picks are a crap shoot, too; if the Lakers had dealt for the following year's #1 instead of Magic, the first pick was Joe Barry Carroll (and the best first rounder was Kevin McHale). The 2nd pick in Magic's draft was David Greenwood. How many casual fans know Carroll or Greenwood? Or that Bill Cartwright was a #3 overall pick?

The Kareem trade was for the #2 and #8 picks in that year's draft and 4 young players. Not terrible for a player that wanted out of Milwaukee. Seems like we're talking very a similar situation with AD currently. C Elmore Smith averaged 15.6 points and 11.4 assists in his first year with the Bucks, his fifth overall after being drafted #3 overall by Buffalo. SG Brian Winters averaged 18.2 points and 4.7 assists that first year with the Bucks, one year after being drafted #12 overall by LA.

 

[logic]

Didn't realize till you just brought that up & did a little research. One of the biggest moves that shaped the history of the NBA happened during the mid-late 70s when the Jazz signed an aging Gail Goodrich. As part of the compensation a trade was made which gave the Lakers the Jazz' first overall pick which turned out to be Magic Johnson. Without that move Johnson could have been playing initially in NO & ultimately in Utah. Who knows how the NBA would have unfolded in that case.

Actually he would have been playing for Michigan State another year. He came out because LA had the #1 pick.

 

[rmilia1]

Because back then teams valued actual proven talent over an unnamed guy who may or may not end up amounting to anything .

Draft picks in both major sports ( basketball and football ) are valued far far far more now than they used to be. No clue why especially given that teams miss on top picks just as often as they hit

 

[rmilia1]

In any event it was a great trade for Seattle as they certainly got more production out of Henderson than the Cs did Bias. For realz

 

[rmilia1]

I wonder if Henderson is the only guy ever traded for a corpse ?? That's something to look up

 

[tlance]

Because back then teams valued actual proven talent over an unnamed guy who may or may not end up amounting to anything .

Draft picks in both major sports ( basketball and football ) are valued far far far more now than they used to be. No clue why especially given that teams miss on top picks just as often as they hit

The why is obvious. Especially in basketball.

Guys like Gerald Henderson are easily replaceable. Guys like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson aren't.

When you have a high draft pick that could turn into a star, you don't trade it for a replaceable talent.

 

[rmilia1]

The why is obvious. Especially in basketball.

Guys like Gerald Henderson are easily replaceable. Guys like Larry Bird and Magic Johnson aren't.

When you have a high draft pick that could turn into a star, you don't trade it for a replaceable talent.

Guys end up as stars drafted at nearly every position in the draft . I'd rather have a really good player for sure than a remote shot at drafting a guy who ends up better . Sure you've got a slightly better chance to get an elite talent at 2 than you do at 12 or 22 but if you miss at 2 ( happens all the time ) it sets you back far more as well

 

[The Oldtimer]

Actually he would have been playing for Michigan State another year. He came out because LA had the #1 pick.

Magic came out of Michigan State as a sophomore. Magic was noted for winning the NCAA Championship as a sophomore and then winning the NBA championship as a rookie the next year.

In Magic's rookie year the Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals, in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series, sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6. Coach Paul Westhead, who had replaced McKinney early in the season after he suffered a near-fatal bicycle accident, decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game. Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award, and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history. He also became one of four players to win NCAA and NBA championships in consecutive years.

 

[logic]

Magic came out of Michigan State as a sophomore. Magic was noted for winning the NCAA Championship as a sophomore and then winning the NBA championship as a rookie the next year.

In Magic's rookie year the Lakers compiled a 60–22 record in the regular season and reached the 1980 NBA Finals, in which they faced the Philadelphia 76ers, who were led by forward Julius Erving. The Lakers took a 3–2 lead in the series, but Abdul-Jabbar, who averaged 33 points a game in the series, sprained his ankle in Game 5 and could not play in Game 6. Coach Paul Westhead, who had replaced McKinney early in the season after he suffered a near-fatal bicycle accident, decided to start Johnson at center in Game 6; Johnson recorded 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in a 123–107 win, while playing guard, forward, and center at different times during the game. Johnson became the only rookie to win the NBA Finals MVP award, and his clutch performance is still regarded as one of the finest in NBA history. He also became one of four players to win NCAA and NBA championships in consecutive years.

Yes, we know Magic was, well, magic, but does that have anything to do with the post you quoted?

 

[Montalban]

I just finished watching NBA Finals Game 6 on You Tube. Celtics defeated the Rockets to win their 16th NBA title. Towards the end of the game, one of the announcers mentions that Danny Ainge's development was one of the reasons the Celtics felt they could trade away Gerald Henderson. They ended up getting Seattle's 1st round draft pick, which ended up being the number two pick.

We all know that didn't end up working out for the Celtics, as Len Bias tragically died, but I was wondering how the Celtics were able to get the Sonics' first round pick for Gerald Henderson. Was Gerald Henderson regarded as one of the best players in the league back then? Were the Sonics expected to do much better in the 1985-1986 season? They finished 31-51 in 1984-1985, and they wound up finishing 31-51 again in 1985-1986.

I didn't start following the NBA until the 1986-1987 season, and even then, I was only 7 years old, and I didn't even know who Gerald Henderson was.

I only remember the black mother fuckers saying Bias killed himself when he found out the Celtics took him