QB- Peyton Manning vs Tom Brady

[sonnyblack65]

Lol, no.

How many average points did the Patriots D give up on average during the three SB years?

Y'know, since that's the entire basis of the "Brady > Manning" argument.

In fact, Brady not winning another SB since the Pats D deteriorated proves my point even more.

He brought them to 2 SBs with lead late in 4th quarter to see D give up leads. Tell me of a crucial mistake he made to cost a game in playoffs. Some other guy the last 3 come to mind easy

 

[JasonCarrier]

Ok... You brought up playoffs. Why are you giving me regular season stats?

So wait, suddenly a defenses rank during the season doesn't count for the playoffs?

Well then people might want to stop saying that about Brady. His "top" defenses were horrible in all but one SB and even that one they let up a lead (Rams) in the end.

Can't have it both ways.

Speaking of poor defenses, the one time Manning won a SB he tried to throw it away getting there, but his "horrible" defense carried him and then got to face the Bears (with Grossman)

There is no excuse for Manning if he is that great and makes his teams "better" to fail. Yet he does.

 

[BSUSeahawk]

YOU said Manning was a playoff loser because of his defenses. I pointed out that wasnt teue. To answer your qiestion Brafys pats have given up 22 ppg in his playoff wins and Mannings teams have given up 20.5 in his. Claiming a guy loses because his d stinks and then trying to change your argument when proven wrong is weak btw

He brought them to 2 SBs with lead late in 4th quarter to see D give up leads. Tell me of a crucial mistake he made to cost a game in playoffs. Some other guy the last 3 come to mind easy

So wait, suddenly a defenses rank during the season doesn't count for the playoffs?

Well then people might want to stop saying that about Brady. His "top" defenses were horrible in all but one SB and even that one they let up a lead (Rams) in the end.

Can't have it both ways.

Speaking of poor defenses, the one time Manning won a SB he tried to throw it away getting there, but his "horrible" defense carried him and then got to face the Bears (with Grossman)

There is no excuse for Manning if he is that great and makes his teams "better" to fail. Yet he does.

During the 3 championship runs, the Pats D gave up an average of 17 points, and Brady averaged 216 YPG.

Sure, he was efficient, which is good -- I'm not arguing he isn't great/a HOF. But spare me with the "the defense didn't carry him" narrative.

 

[cwood]

During the 3 championship runs, the Pats D gave up an average of 17 points, and Brady averaged 216 YPG.

Sure, he was efficient, which is good -- I'm not arguing he isn't great/a HOF. But spare me with the "the defense didn't carry him" narrative.

The rings get him in the HOF, but I don't think his regular season stats would get him there if he hadn't benefited from the early Super Bowl wins from that dynasty defense.

 

[WIZ]

Yep the rings from cheating will get him there. That dynasty D knew every play.....

 

[cdumler7]

Giants defense was tough .... They were on a roll in that first Super-Bowl and that was a big part of why Brady struggled ... And like you pointed out Brady did have a great drive to give them the lead when it counted near the end of the game... So once again he came through and the defense gave it up on the last drive... It wasn't a pretty drive by New York but it got the job done.... Pats defense back in the day I think would a stopped New York and sealed the victory... Eli wasn't facing the same D the Pats had back in the day....

So it only matters what a quarterback does at the end of the game and nothing to do with the first 50 minutes of the game? IF that is the case then Tim Tebow is an all-star in this league. Honestly that is exactly what this post sounds like is those Tebow apologist that would say he was the reason the Broncos won those games because of what he would do in the last 5 minutes of the game. Completely ignoring that the defense had held a team to 10 points (just to give you an idea of how good that kind of defense is that is on par with the 2000 Ravens). Until that final drive for the Giants that is exactly what the New England defense had done. Again you hold a team to 17 points you should win the game most of the time. That is still considered a top-5 or so defense in this league and when you have a historical offense like they did you expect them to show up and produce. They didn't and I put that blame 90% on the offense. Yes the defense deserves a little of the blame with giving up the last touchdown but in no way do they even come close to deserving the majority.

 

[rmilia1]

During the 3 championship runs, the Pats D gave up an average of 17 points, and Brady averaged 216 YPG.

Sure, he was efficient, which is good -- I'm not arguing he isn't great/a HOF. But spare me with the "the defense didn't carry him" narrative.

So teams that win titles play better D??? WOW!!! Shocker. Thats not what youre original claim was. You said Mannings D let him down and that is why he didnt have more rings. That is FALSE. Mannings D performed better in his playoff losses than Bradys did in his. Hell I could claim Brady would have 6 SB's if his D played better in that case

 

[rmilia1]

As an FYI in Mannings SB winning year the Colts D gave up 16 ppg in the postseason. Guess the D won that one and Manning gets none of the credit... LOL

 

[cdumler7]

Im sorry but that is bullshit. Fact Manning has lost his 12 playoff games by an average score of 27.1 to 15.5, Brady has lost his 8 playoff games by an average score of 27.3 to 17.7. Teams Manning has played on have given up 30+ points in only 3 of his 12 playoff losses and Bradys teams have given up 30+ in 3 of his 8. The REAL difference in these 2 guys playoff career is that Manning is 3-7 in games decided by 1 score or less and Brady is 9-4. Thats the difference. Clutch vs not clutch. Period. Thats it. The rest be damned. losses.

Actually it is 4 games of giving up 30+ points...The Super Bowl last year, the playoff loss to Baltimore giving up 38, The Super Bowl loss to the Saints giving up 31, and the 41 points given up to the Jets in the 2002 season.

 

[cdumler7]

Also Brady only has 2 games of his defense giving up 30 or more points with Baltimore and Indy being the only 2 to do that to a Brady lead team.

 

[rmilia1]

Actually it is 4 games of giving up 30+ points...The Super Bowl last year, the playoff loss to Baltimore giving up 38, The Super Bowl loss to the Saints giving up 31, and the 41 points given up to the Jets in the 2002 season.

Thank you sir, forgot the game last year. LOL. Trying to erase that one from my memory bank as I took Denver

 

[sonnyblack65]

Actually it is 4 games of giving up 30+ points...The Super Bowl last year, the playoff loss to Baltimore giving up 38, The Super Bowl loss to the Saints giving up 31, and the 41 points given up to the Jets in the 2002 season.


True but turnover have a lot to do with points too. Like Manning last year in SB having 4, so not only D giving up 43 points or whatever. Last year Denver in NE, NE had 3 t/os in first 3 possessions and Denver turned them into 17 quick points and went into half 24-0. So not like NE's D was shredded for 24. Also Denver scored 14 points on kickoff returns on Balt, so special teams cost the team 14

 

[seattlefan75]

I havent read anything else other than the title but to answer Id go with Tom Brady. To me its kinda like a quarter back that gets the ball on the 10 yard line goes 80 yards down field making amazing throws but throws an INT in the endzone it kinda makes everything he just did useless. Manning would have all these 13/14 win seasons break records put up amazing numbers to only lose in the playoffs and SB's so it kinda makes all those amazing seasons and regular season wins useless.

 

[JasonCarrier]

Anyone could have played with that Patriots offense. Brady has been and always will be a system QB. Not impressed with Brady.

Yet he has had multiple offenses to work from

Every thing from Ball Control, to Spread, to west coast he has had as an offense.

System QBs usually only have one offense their entire career or if they have multiple teams, they bring that offense with them... wait that sounds like Manning

 

[JasonCarrier]

The rings get him in the HOF, but I don't think his regular season stats would get him there if he hadn't benefited from the early Super Bowl wins from that dynasty defense.

Brady has excellent stats. Regular and Post season.

That is only a small part of the picture.

Regular season winning % of 70 or better and similar with the post season

Plus the Rings.

 

[JasonCarrier]

Yep the rings from cheating will get him there. That dynasty D knew every play.....

Yet in all 3 SBs the defense fell apart, with 2 of them needing last drives by the Offense to win (Rams, Carolina), the only one that didn't was with the Eagles, and if it wasn't for a 10 point lead the outcome might have been different.

 

[Bradyjustwins]

During the 3 championship runs, the Pats D gave up an average of 17 points, and Brady averaged 216 YPG.

Sure, he was efficient, which is good -- I'm not arguing he isn't great/a HOF. But spare me with the "the defense didn't carry him" narrative.

Two things...Manning's overall playoff stats are better but against who and how matters. He had 4 TD games against the 03 and 04 Broncos and Chiefs. Both bottom feeder defenses. Then went up against the likes of NE or Pitt or SD and played mediocre to poor. Brady on the other hand was consistently good all through that run. So yeah I'll take a couple 1 TD and no turn over games over a guy blowing out crap teams and throwing games away against good defenses.

Also Manning's one SB happened to be probably his worst postseason (that wasn't one and done). He had one good half be NE and the rest HE was carried.

It's a team sport so I'll take the guy who regularly didn't take away playoff victories with his play and\or mistakes.

This isn't even an argument if David Tyree doesn't catch a ball on his head in 2007. Literally that is the only thing keeping this argument alive at all...because 19-0 and 4 SBs means sub .500 playoff Peyton and his fans had no argument left.

But in a fantasy football Era stats matter more than context.

 

[Bradyjustwins]

As an FYI in Mannings SB winning year the Colts D gave up 16 ppg in the postseason. Guess the D won that one and Manning gets none of the credit... LOL

Running game also went from regular season bottomfeeders to the aspect that carried the offense 14 of 16 quarters.

 

[Bradyjustwins]

Again

Problem is the person you quoted with those facts is the king of cherry picking who also loved Manning and hated Brady. I know him well...he's a smarter version of your hammerdown. Everything in his life boiled down to Manning vs Brady. He started by arguing Manning was better because he had better probowl stats and was drafted higher. We at kffl challenged him and he in turn actually did some good research (like his 4th quarter comeback.work).

But he is who he is. Someone that cherry picks what works and dismisses what doesnt...the fact Manning only has his poor 2006 playoff to show for rings still eats the kid up.

 

[Raid]

Peyton Manning > every other QB in history