Poll: Which of these non-championship late 80's/early 90's teams were the best

[Used 2 B Hu]

There was so much talent spread all around the league back in those days

 

[tlance]

There was so much talent spread all around the league back in those days

Key there was how much it was spread out in the 90s.

Not the case in the 80s or more recent eras.

 

[BigFin]

The mid-90s Jazz were the best team overall, but they were never a serious threat to beat the Bulls.

Most of the Jazz/Bulls games were very close. Could’ve gone either way

97’ Bulls wins were by 2, 12, 2, 4
98’ Bulls wins were by 5, 4, 42, 1

 

[BigFin]

AK47 got to the Jazz a few seasons late. Imagine if he were there instead of Byron Russell.

 

[dtgold88]

Allow me to educate you…

Pippen was surely an all time great player. IMO, doesn’t get nearly enough credit for the Bulls’ success.

But he had a tough year in 1998. Only played 44 games. That was when he started having back issues.

Production was down in the ‘98 playoffs because of those issues, but then he herniated a disc in his back during game 6.

Only played 25 minutes in that game. He could barely move. And he himself said that he probably would not have even been able to play in game 7, let alone be effective.

So yes.

Pippen was on fumes in game 6.

For that reason along with a home game 7,

100% for sure Utah would have been favored.

Sure had a good game 6 for someone on fumes, But is it OK if we just stick to the facts and what actually happened to make this determination and form our - say it with me - opinions?

Most important is the fake game 7 didn't happen for either team.

 

[dtgold88]

Of the teams those Bulls beat, my ranking of how good their opponents were is

1. Suns
2. Sonics
3. Blazers/Jazz
5. Lakers

If we are talking all of them (and not OP of late 80s/early 90s) I'm really not sure how to differentiate between all but Suns would be #1 I think.

 

[tlance]

Sure had a good game 6 for someone on fumes, But is it OK if we just stick to the facts and what actually happened to make this determination and form our - say it with me - opinions?

Cmon man.

I actually remember the game.

8 points, 3 rebounds and 4 assists is a good game for Scottie Pippen?

In what universe?

Reality is it was damn near heroic.

Because he was playing with a HERNIATED DISC

But under normal circumstance it would have been a terrible game for a player of his caliber.

 

[dtgold88]

You are getting me into so many tangents.

My point at the beginning was Utah was closest to winning.

I still believe that true even while I can admit to being wrong in thinking that Bulls had home court against Pheonix.

But they also had a 2nd Finals trip and while they had a much longer window with Stockton and Malone, they also made conference Finals 3 times from
‘92-‘96. Many of those years Barkley was playing for Phoenix.

Phoenix, by comparison only made the conference finals 2 other years, that was actually before Barkley I think, and largely underachieved in the playoffs with Barkley there.

If the question is were the ‘93 Suns a better basketball team than the ‘98 Jazz?

I would say probably yes.

But whole point from the start was that Utah had the best overall resume and got closest to an actual championship.

You have some good comments but it's which team could/nearly should have won a championship. It's true Stockton/Malone was around longer but think your last comment is really all that matters in the discussion and your comment is just an opinion that can be refuted with facts.....
1) Both teams lost a 1 point game in game 6
2) Both teams would have hosted a game 7
3) Game 7 never happened so no way to know who would have won (and, no, one team maybe being favored isn't proof)

OTHERS
4) biggest loss for Suns was 8 while Utah had a 40 point beatdown
5) and if you want to call that an anomaly I wouldn't push back much as most games in BOTH series were close.

I do need to make a correction as Utah had same record as Bulls in 97-98 season. Not 5 games better.

 

[dtgold88]

Cmon man.

I actually remember the game.

8 points, 3 rebounds and 4 assists is a good game for Scottie Pippen?

In what universe?

Reality is it was damn near heroic.

Because he was playing with a HERNIATED DISC

But under normal circumstance it would have been a terrible game for a player of his caliber.

in 25 minutes it's a solid game plus his defense that likely helped get him the +16 he had on the court in a 1 point win. But it's really not that relevant as there never was a game 7 for either Suns nor Jazz.

 

[tlance]

in 25 minutes it's a solid game plus his defense that likely helped get him the +16 he had on the court in a 1 point win. But it's really not that relevant as there never was a game 7 for either Suns nor Jazz.

It is not unless using the stipulation that he was playing through a major injury. You can’t use +/- like that and you know it.

If James Harden posted 8/3/4 in a big playoff game on 7 field goal attempts, but was somehow +16….

Would you call it a good game?

No chance.

He would barbecued by the regulars here.

If I remember correctly…

Pippen got bumped by Malone after he stole the ball and dunked it. That was early in the game. Bulls had gone on a run.

Then Scotty Burrell replaced him and the Jazz responded with a big run of their own.

The other regulars had low plus minus scores because they were on the court during the Utah run. Pippen was not.

Also, a good chunk of Pippen’s production (and the +/-) came in the stint before he got hurt. Even though only a few minutes of game time.

 

[dtgold88]

It is not unless using the stipulation that he was playing through a major injury. You can’t use +/- like that and you know it.

If James Harden posted 8/3/4 in a big playoff game on 7 field goal attempts, but was somehow +16….

Would you call it a good game?

No chance.

He would barbecued by the regulars here.

Harden and Pippen don't exactly have similar games and you know it so that matters. Plus-minus not end all be all for sure but +16 in his 25 minutes and -15 in the 23 he sat I think means something.

But none of this really even matters as Game 7 didn't happen in either series for your fake line. Once again....
1) Both teams lost a down to the wire game 6 by 1
2) Again, doesn't matter (since it wasn't) but if the fake game 7 is played both Suns and Jazz host it.

I realize you just cannot accept your opinion isn't a fact but it's just an opinion (somewhat refuted by facts).....man.

 

[tlance]

Harden and Pippen don't exactly have similar games and you know it so that matters. Plus-minus not end all be all for sure but +16 in his 25 minutes and -15 in the 23 he sat I think means something.

But none of this really even matters as Game 7 didn't happen in either series for your fake line. Once again....
1) Both teams lost a down to the wire game 6 by 1
2) Again, doesn't matter (since it wasn't) but if the fake game 7 is played both Suns and Jazz host it.

I realize you just cannot accept your opinion isn't a fact but it's just an opinion (somewhat refuted by facts).....man.

Dude.

It matters because the Bulls would have likely been without Pippen in game 7.

You don’t think that helps Utah’s chances?

GTFO

I said they got closest. That is the truth and it is based in fact.

Whether you care to admit it or not. Pippen and Jordan were both fully healthy and in their primes in ‘93.

I also added more context to the Pippen injury.

Done replying to you.

 

[dtgold88]

Dude.

It matters because the Bulls would have likely been without Pippen in game 7.

You don’t think that helps Utah’s chances?

GTFO

I said they got closest. That is the truth and it is based in fact.

Whether you care to admit it or not. Pippen and Jordan were both fully healthy and in their primes in ‘93.

I also added more context to the Pippen injury.

Done replying to you.

And maybe Pippen sucks it up and plays as he did in Game 6 since kind of an important game and all summer to rest.

Both lost in 1 point, down to the wire games in game 6 so how did Utah get closest? Not only is it not fact Utah was closest it's more like it's factually incorrect as Suns just as close.

In this thread you got caught lying about Suns not being at home in game 7 if played and I suspect you also forgot how close game 6 was for the Suns.

It's cool you have an opinion and made some good points to try and support it......but some good ones (facts) to refute your opinion. I say this knowing you believe many of your opinions are fact and can get a little bent out of shape if someone disagrees.

Should you reply as I suspect you might I will save you from yourself and bow out in our discussion.

 

[jontaejones]

Most of the Jazz/Bulls games were very close. Could’ve gone either way

97’ Bulls wins were by 2, 12, 2, 4
98’ Bulls wins were by 5, 4, 42, 1

Is anything I say going to make you think any different?

If not then, is there a point in responding?

 

[Mr. Friscus]

Cmon man.

I actually remember the game.

8 points, 3 rebounds and 4 assists is a good game for Scottie Pippen?

In what universe?

Reality is it was damn near heroic.

Because he was playing with a HERNIATED DISC

But under normal circumstance it would have been a terrible game for a player of his caliber.

I got curious about your Pippen discussion, and just decided to look at his output, regardless of conclusions, as far as the 97-98 Finals you referenced.

Game 1: 21-8-1 (gamescore 10.7, Plus/Minus -3)
Game 2: 21-6-4 (GS 19, PM +1)
Game 3: 10-4-4 (GS 8.5, PM +14)
Game 4: 28-9-5 (GS 25.2, PM +2)
Game 5: 6-11-11 (GS 6.3, PM -2)
Game 6: 8-3-4 (GS 8.3, PM +16)

So what was Pippen in this series?
Elite in 1 game (Game 4)
Very good in 2 games (1,2)
Good in 1 game (5)
Average in 2 games (3,6).

That's only counting offensive output. The thing about Pippen is that he was a defensive stallion, I'd say a Tayshon Prince on Steroids. Pippen was the most versatile defender on the Bulls, he could guard Stockton on a switch, smother Hornecek, easily contain Russell, and even challenge Malone.

As far as my take, I don't think you can make a claim that Pippen was some fallen wheel who couldn't hold up his weight.

 

[Janus]

I'm going with Michigans Fab 5

 

[tlance]

I got curious about your Pippen discussion, and just decided to look at his output, regardless of conclusions, as far as the 97-98 Finals you referenced.

Game 1: 21-8-1 (gamescore 10.7, Plus/Minus -3)
Game 2: 21-6-4 (GS 19, PM +1)
Game 3: 10-4-4 (GS 8.5, PM +14)
Game 4: 28-9-5 (GS 25.2, PM +2)
Game 5: 6-11-11 (GS 6.3, PM -2)
Game 6: 8-3-4 (GS 8.3, PM +16)

So what was Pippen in this series?
Elite in 1 game (Game 4)
Very good in 2 games (1,2)
Good in 1 game (5)
Average in 2 games (3,6).

That's only counting offensive output. The thing about Pippen is that he was a defensive stallion, I'd say a Tayshon Prince on Steroids. Pippen was the most versatile defender on the Bulls, he could guard Stockton on a switch, smother Hornecek, easily contain Russell, and even challenge Malone.

As far as my take, I don't think you can make a claim that Pippen was some fallen wheel who couldn't hold up his weight.

You need to do some more research then.

He got injured during game 6.

He even said that he probably would not have been able to play if there was a game 7.

What he did in games 1-5 is completely irrelevant given that information. Pippen was on fumes like I said.

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

The Showtime Lakers...they're repeat was late 80's and they made the NBA finals in '91.

The Bad Boy Pistons were late 80's, early 90's as well.

87 Lakers were a helluva team ..

 

[msgkings322]

87 Lakers were a helluva team ..

Which Lakers team from that era was best? Gotta be 87 or 85 right?

 

[boogiewithstu2007]

Which Lakers team from that era was best? Gotta be 87 or 85 right?

I’d say 87, that team worked so dam well together, clicking on all cylinders ..